What if you want the church to be true,

[Bertram]

Deacons?

It seems we are discussing parallel issues!

Deacons in the Lds Church are NORMALLY considered aged 12-19 in the Aaronic Priesthood!

However in Missionary/Mature Convert terms the age level is irrelevant.

To open minds the age/marital state is a "red herring"!

In the RC church the Hierarchy usually consists of Pope, Cardinal, Archbishop, Bishop, Priest and Deacon. Sometimes they use Vicar in place of Pope.

A transitional deacon is a seminarian studying for the priesthood. A permanent deacon can be married and assists a priest by performing some of the sacraments.

However ONLY a PRIEST may celebrate mass, according to Vatican Law!

Due to shortage of Priests, a declining of applicants throughout the World, deacons help to fill the shortage.

In that event, some deacons may be accepted in the marriage state!

Things are constantly changing on this sphere and even my remarks/studies may have moved even further.

[Moksha]

There are some formulas, tried and true that involve closing your eyes real tight. Next you recite a magical invocation several times:

There is no place like home, there is no place like home...

This may be assisted by clicking your heel together.

Here is another one:

I do believe in faeries, I do believe in faeries...

Here is still another:

Give up on literal truth,  and seek for symbolic truths.  Give up on literal truth and seek for symbolic truths....

I suspect the last one is the truly magical one, since it worked for me.

[randyc]

If you really want the church to be true...then it will be true for you.

...

It's been difficult for me to understand how so many, having seen the same evidence and historical records that I have, continue to believe in the teachings of the church.

[Abulafia]

Just wondering how Redman is doing???

Abulafia

[randyc]

Alex, There is nothing that you have placed on your "not true" list that is accurate or correct.

Really? Nothing "not true" is correct? Amazing!

[ave maria]

Just wondering how Redman is doing???

Abulafia

Last I checked, he was putting periodic updates on RFM.

http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/vie...49131&replies=4

[Catholic Guy]

However ONLY a PRIEST may celebrate mass, according to Vatican Law!

Bertram,

Long time no talk. You are right that only a Priest can Consecrate the host, but a deacon can preside over the mass if there is Consecrated host already available in the tabernacle.

In Christ,

Catholic Guy

[Kenngo1969]

Redman, what is your path? If you leave the Church, or activity in it, what will you do?

[loving life]

I say you need to truly follow your heart, your mind, and your gut. I commend you for being so open and honest with such difficult emotions. To ignore such innate feelings inside of you will only steer you in the wrong direction. Good luck and I hope you find the peace that you deserve.

[Abulafia]

Redman, what is your path? If you leave the Church, or activity in it, what will you do?

[redman]

Redman, what is your path? If you leave the Church, or activity in it, what will you do?  If you were not to consider your wife in any decision making, what will your life be like?  If it is drastically different than now, then you need to consider the impact on her. If it wouldn't be drastically different, then what would it hurt to be a non-believing attender?  We moved into a branch one time, and it was months before we knew that Brother L**** was not even a member of the Church.  He was there with his family at every meeting, held callings which did not require the priesthood, etc. , fully supported his wife and children in their callings.  He didn't have to believe a thing.  Is that an option for you?

yeah that's a very likely option. i think i said somewhere earlier in this thread that i would go with her if for no other reason than to help avoid the stigma that would be placed on her if she were to attend alone. the other thing is our daughter. i play with her during most of church anyway (she's 1 and very rambunctious), so my wife couldn't really do it alone, plus she teaches young women's.

i have great friends in my ward and i enjoy socializing on sundays, so i wouldn't necessarily just leave and never show my face again.

It looks like Redman is telling us FAIR folks one thing (as evidenced by his afore-quoted response to Charity) while saying something entirely different to his apparently like-minded fellows over on RFM.

i think i'm in for the long haul here. the inactive husband/dad and the active mom/wife. boy that sounds fun.

Maybe he should opt for a specialty in psychiatry, seeing as how his personality has apparently "split two-for-one"...?

P.S.: Judging from his posts over on RFM, it doesn't sound to me like Redman "wants the Church to be true" all that much.

oh kenngo1969, your abusive posts continue, i see. you just can't seem to leave me alone.

to clarify my comments, although i'm not sure why i choose to respond to your provocations, let me say this.

i am planning on going to church with my wife and family indefinitely. however, that does not mean that i will be faking belief indefinitely. i used the term inactive to describe my beliefs more so than whether or not i sit in the LDS pew on sundays.

as for your comment about my "wanting the church to be true," i say this: just because i want it to be true doesn't make it true. so i can accept that and move on, or i can spend the rest of my life "wanting" it to be true. similarly, i can spend the rest of my life "wanting" santa claus to be real, but that also would be a waste of time.

seriously, can you find it within yourself to write a post that is not demeaning and sarcastic? i have loved corresponding with the believing mormons on this site, except for you. everyone else has been civil and thoughtful and has shied away from low-blow personal attacks.

P.S. quit obsessing over my capitalization

[Mark Beesley]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to read through 38 pages of posts responding to redman's quandry. 38 pages??? C'mon. The Church is true. Joseph Smith is the prophet of the restoration. President Hinckley is the Lord's propet on the earth today. It is that simple. If redman has issues, he needs to humble himself, throw himself on the ground, and cry unto the Lord for forgiveness. And he needs to stay there until he gets it. He doesn't need 38 pages of TBMs, trolls, apostates, and the like. He needs to be humble. That's all it takes. Humility. Let me say it again . . . Humble yourself before God and beg for forgiveness.

Have a nice day.

[redman]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to read through 38 pages of posts responding to redman's quandry.  38 pages???  C'mon.  The Church is true.  Joseph Smith is the prophet of the restoration.  President Hinckley is the Lord's propet on the earth today.  It is that simple. If redman has issues, he needs to humble himself, throw himself on the ground, and cry unto the Lord for forgiveness.  And he needs to stay there until he gets it.  He doesn't need 38 pages of TBMs, trolls, apostates, and the like.  He needs to be humble.  That's all it takes.  Humility.  Let me say it again . . . Humble yourself before God and beg for forgiveness.

Have a nice day.

thanks mbeesely. i would reccomend that you read at least the first 15 pages before you start throwing out advice in the way you just did.

i made it pretty clear early on that i wasn't asking for anyone to resolve my "issues." i was just starting a discussion.

[Mark Beesley]

redman wrote:

i was just starting a discussion.

Why? Is it an ego thing? Get humble dude.

[redman]

redman wrote:

i was just starting a discussion.

Why? Is it an ego thing? Get humble dude.

no, i was under the impression that the purpose of this board was to have interesting discussions.

[Mark Beesley]

redman wrote, in his first post:

Is there an explanation for people like me?

Then, in response my asking why he started the discussion, he replied,

i was under the impression that the purpose of this board was to have interesting discussions.

So, I guess discussing redman is something that he thinks would be interesting. Sounds like an ego thing to me.

[Dill Pickles]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to read through 38 pages of posts responding to redman's quandry. 38 pages??? C'mon. The Church is true. Joseph Smith is the prophet of the restoration. President Hinckley is the Lord's propet on the earth today. It is that simple. If redman has issues, he needs to humble himself, throw himself on the ground, and cry unto the Lord for forgiveness. And he needs to stay there until he gets it. He doesn't need 38 pages of TBMs, trolls, apostates, and the like. He needs to be humble. That's all it takes. Humility. Let me say it again . . . Humble yourself before God and beg for forgiveness.

Have a nice day.

from the Pickle jar: sounds to me like someone definitely has out-sized ego, and the need to repent and humble himself. I'm not sure it's redman though.

[Mark Beesley]

Dill Pickles wrote:

from the Pickle jar: sounds to me like someone definitely has out-sized ego, and the need to repent and humble himself. I'm not sure it's redman though.

Not a surprising sentiment coming from someone who seems to believe that that true nature of a revelation is something that can be decided by a jury.

[randyc]

Dill Pickles wrote:

from the Pickle jar: sounds to me like someone definitely has out-sized ego, and the need to repent and humble himself. I'm not sure it's redman though.

Not a surprising sentiment coming from someone who seems to believe that that true nature of a revelation is something that can be decided by a jury.

Say something even remotely useful and tasteful or shut your mouth, mbeesley. No one needs to be told that they don't believe because they aren't humble enough. What evidence do you have that your belief is true and mine is false because you are more humble than me? God said so? And you believe that that is true because... oh, yes, because you're more humble than me, so your beliefs must be true...

[Mark Beesley]

randyc wrote:

Say something even remotely useful and tasteful or shut your mouth, mbeesley.

You're confused son. This is a written forum, so I can participate even if I am a deaf-mute. No mouth needed.

randyc wrote:

No one needs to be told that they don't believe because they aren't humble enough.

That's right. People just need to be flattered and told that everything's fine.

randyc wrote:

What evidence do you have that your belief is true and mine is false . . .

Since I haven't a clue as to what your belief is, I wouldn't know what evidence you would expect.

randyc wrote:

. . . because you are more humble than me?

I'm not sure of the premise, but given your arrogance on the thread dealing with Secular Humanism, maybe. . .

randyc wrote:

God said so?

I wonder whether you'd recognize anything God said.

randyc wrote:

And you believe that that is true because... oh, yes, because you're more humble than me, so your beliefs must be true...

Actually, from my brief review of some of your posts, I would venture to say that most of the folks on this board are more humble than you, so all of their beliefs must be true!

Is that what you were driving at?

[randyc]

I am not humble. I do not pretend to be, nor do I care. I don't see how that is actually relevant.

[Mark Beesley]

Well, someone got into comparing my humility with their's so I concluded . . . oh never mind.

[randyc]

Well, someone got into comparing my humility with their's so I concluded . . . oh never mind.

You got into comparing humility when you said that humility was what was keeping me from belief. I use a literary device called "sarcasm" quite often.

[Mark Beesley]

randyc wrote:

You got into comparing humility when you said that humility was what was keeping me from belief. I use a literary device called "sarcasm" quite often.

Whoa!!! Slow down cowboy. I entered this thread with a response to redman's problem. (Are you an alias of redman? If so, humble yourself, get on your knees, and pray with all of your might . . . and ignore the rest of this post.)

You jumped in and told me to shut up. I don't think I EVER said anything about your belief or your level of humility. So, I'm a little confused where you're coming from.

[Abulafia]

randyc wrote:

You got into comparing humility when you said that humility was what was keeping me from belief. I use a literary device called "sarcasm" quite often.

Whoa!!! Slow down cowboy. I entered this thread with a response to redman's problem. (Are you an alias of redman? If so, humble yourself, get on your knees, and pray with all of your might . . . and ignore the rest of this post.)

You jumped in and told me to shut up. I don't think I EVER said anything about your belief or your level of humility. So, I'm a little confused where you're coming from.

Hey you guys, will ya'll just stop squawking at each other.