What if you want the church to be true,

[Abulafia]

Ron, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Abulafia]

Also, I want to add that I believe that GBH is far more tolerant and loving to people that have left the church, for whatever reason.

I remember a talk somewhere where he apologised and implored? people who had left, to return and that he would welcome them with open arms.

You have to remember Charity that there have been many injustices done to people who have left. I read with great sadness the cases of abuse where the SP actually threatened to excommunicate the victim rather than accept that the abuse occured. Many other injustices on a smaller scale have occured. It is an imperfect institution led by imperfect people.

Sometimes people have a perfectly justified right to feel anger and bitterness. I think GBH understands this more than you do.

Abulafia

[charity]

Abulafia, The Church teaches the doctrine of Christ. The gospel of love. If a person were to completely disbelieve in the divinity of Jesus Christ, not accept one word of Joseph Smith's First Vision, never go to a church meeting, and still live by what is taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, they would be as happy as they could be on this earth.

The view is expressed that people feel they were deceived by the Church. What does the Church get out of such deception? We attend worship services and enjoy the comfort and support of other people. We are asked to serve others through callings. The tithing thing? If you were to belong to any other club or society you would pay dues to support the building you meet in. The Church provides a wonderful support system for people who lose their jobs, suffer losses. If you are a member of the Church, you will never go hungry. So, where does the Church benefit? Isn't it all the members?

You said, "It is an imperfect institution led by imperfect people." There is nothing in the world that is perfect. There is no person who is perfect. And are there times when people treat each other badly? Of course. Do you know the whole impetus for Freud's oedipal theory came from his belief that women who were describing incidences of familial sexual abuse were describing what they wanted to happen, not what was happening?

People get things wrong sometimes. It doesn't matter where. The first time someone got something wrong we are supposed to throw out the institution? The principal of our grade school (many years ago) was arrested for "lewd" behavior. So do we shut the school down? A former governor of the state of Oregon was found to have sexually abused a neighbor girl many years before. Do we dismantle the state government?

Tolerant and loving to people who have left the Church? I don't see anyone on this board who is not tolerant and loving to individuals. I do see people express opinions that we are responsible for what we do. We can choose the actions we want to take. We must accept the consequences of those actions. We can't pick and choose consequences. If redman wants to leave the Church, he is welcome to do so, of course. No one will force him to stay in. But we should point out to him that his actions will affect many other people. We can love him and accept his decision. He cannot make his decision in a vacuum, as though his decision won't affect his family.

This is a long post. Sorry. But it needed to be said.

[Abulafia]

Abulafia, The Church teaches the doctrine of Christ.  The gospel of love.  If a person were to completely disbelieve in the divinity of Jesus Christ, not accept one word of Joseph Smith's First Vision, never go to a church meeting, and still live by what is taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, they would be as happy as they could be on this earth.

The view is expressed that people feel they were deceived by the Church.  What does the Church get out of such deception?  We attend worship services and enjoy the comfort and support of other people.  We are asked to serve others through callings. The tithing thing?  If you were to belong to any other club or society you would pay dues to support the building you meet in. The Church provides a wonderful support system for people who lose their jobs, suffer losses.  If you are a member of the Church, you will never go hungry.  So, where does the Church benefit?  Isn't it all the members?

You said, "It is an imperfect institution led by imperfect people."  There is nothing in the world that is perfect.  There is no person who is perfect.  And are there times when people treat each other badly?  Of course. Do you know the whole impetus for Freud's oedipal theory came from his belief that women who were describing incidences of familial sexual abuse were describing what they wanted to happen, not what was happening? 

People get things wrong sometimes.  It doesn't matter where.  The first time someone got something wrong we are supposed to throw out the institution?  The principal of our grade school (many years ago) was arrested for "lewd" behavior. So do we shut the school down?  A former governor of the state of Oregon was found to have sexually abused a neighbor girl many years before.  Do we dismantle the state government?

Tolerant and loving to people who have left the Church?  I don't see anyone on this board who is not tolerant and loving to individuals.  I do see people express opinions that we are responsible for what we do.  We can choose the actions we want to take. We must accept the consequences of those actions. We can't pick and choose consequences.  If redman wants to leave the Church, he is welcome to do so, of course.  No one will force him to stay in.  But we should point out to him that his actions will affect many other people. We can love him and accept his decision.  He cannot make his decision in a vacuum, as though his decision won't affect his family.

This is a long post.  Sorry.  But it needed to be said.

Hi Charity,

I pretty much agree with what you have said here, and I really do appreciate that his (Redman's) decision doesn't come without consequences particularly since he has a wife and children (I think he has children!).

He is in a real dilemna though isn't he? One thankfully that I wasn't in, because I left before I married and had children, and my own parents were already inactive.

From Redman's posts, he is dealing with it, in a mature and responsible fashion, the best way he can. He intends on continuing to support his wife, but can no longer ignore his own conscience.

My own father supported me because he loved me. Week after week after week he would take me to church and pick me up, both on Sundays and often during the week also. He would even attend on occassion! That's love!!!

I don't think that Redman will stop supporting his wife, and hopefully his wife in return will support him, since they are in a marriage, and it goes two ways.

He is being honest with himself and with this board. In the words of Shakespeare he is following the adage.

This above all.--To thine ownself be true;

[Abulafia]

What does the Church get out of such deception?

[charity]

Abulafia, Your dad sounds like a great guy.

I know Shakespeare seemed to have a lot of insights. (By they way, aren't there all kinds of theroies that he really didn't write the plays? That it was Bacon? Is there a recovery from Shakespeareanism message board? ) But, the purpose of the mortal experience is not to live by our own logic, thought, feelings, etc, but to conform our will to the Lord's.

[Abulafia]

Abulafia, Your dad sounds like a great guy.

I know Shakespeare seemed to have a lot of insights. (By they way, aren't there all kins of theroies that he really didn't write the plays? That is was Bacon? )

But, the purpose of the mortal experience is not to live by our own logic, thought, feelings, etc, but to conform our will to the Lord's.

Thanks Charity!

My dad was reaaaaaaaally cool.

That's the whole conundrum though to me, is finding out amongst all the religious beliefs and doctrines and advise, what really is the Lord's and what is men's!!??

Abulafia

[charity]

Abulafia, Of course, you know what I think about what is the Lord's way. What I would say to you is that as long as you are living to the best of your ability what you believe to be true, then you will continue to be able to grow and develop toward what God has in store for you.

[Abulafia]

Abulafia, Of course, you know what I think about what is the Lord's way. What I would say to you is that as long as you are living to the best of your ability what you believe to be true, then you will continue to be able to grow and develop toward what God has in store for you.

Thanks Charity

I hope so!!!!

Abulafia

[Ron]

Ron, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.  You are not trying to be condescending.  Oops.  You blew it.  "The church has thrived and been successful because of a culture that discourages members from going through the development you are experiencing."  That is condescending.

Leaving the Church is not a sign of increased maturity.  When you witness the anger and bitterness of many, not all, who leave the Church, you see the decision not as one of maturity. Mature decisions bring confidence and tolerance.

Charity, I apologize for coming across condescending. Its just that for me the process of shedding my belief was a growth process. That may not be the case for everyone but I suspect Redman is experiencing the same thing.

I agree that leaving the church and becoming angry and bitter is a not a sign of maturity ( but I also think for some it is a necessary step ).

I have not left the church, which for me I believe was a mature decision. Although frustrating at times it has brought me a sense of confidence and tolerance.

[Ron]

For example after I served a mission I felt that it was a wonderful experience and I had learned and grown, and that I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Later in life when I realized I no longer believed (or wanted to believe) I viewed my mission as a total waste of time and wished I had never gone.

When someones meaning in life changes we tend to re-write history to match and support our new understanding.

Just like when a spouse finally realizes that they need a Divorce many times they re-write the story of their marriage (often demonizing their spouse) and focusing on all of the bad traits, attributes, etc. Not realizing that those same traits that they now view as so horrible were the ones that they were so happy to ignore for all those years and never saw as major, just isolated insignificant issues. Not realizing that it was them who self-deceived about reality to keep the illusion of a happy marriage.

[charity]

Ron, I think you are more perceptive than many I have seen posting on the board about leaving the Church. Not wanting to believe any more is probably more correct than many would admit to.

But I wonder how it is possible for you to knowingly rewrite your history. We live in the present. Technically speaking there is no way to experience either the past or the future. What you were experiencing while you were on your mission was the truth of experience. Trying to change it now is a cognitive exercise only.

[Ron]

Ron, I think you are more perceptive than many I have seen posting on the board about leaving the Church.  Not wanting to believe any more is probably more correct than many would admit to.

But I wonder how it is possible for you to knowingly rewrite your history.  We live in the present.  Technically speaking there is no way to experience either the past or the future.  What you were experiencing while you were on your mission was the truth of experience.  Trying to change it now is a cognitive exercise only.

Charity, the reason I feel that I didn't want to believe was because the symbols of my faith had lost their meaning and value. Trying to believe was preventing me from exploring other ideas/areas that would fulfill my strong need for meaning in life.

I don't think we knowingly re-write history, we just subconsciously change our view of the events to focus on the parts that support our new position.

In my case after losing belief my mind fixated on the negative aspects of my mission to define the overall experience.

However when I was a believer I wrote off the negative aspects of my mission as simply isolated incidents but didn't link them together to define the overall experience.

[Tragic Mind]

Abulafia, The Church teaches the doctrine of Christ.  The gospel of love.  If a person were to completely disbelieve in the divinity of Jesus Christ, not accept one word of Joseph Smith's First Vision, never go to a church meeting, and still live by what is taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, they would be as happy as they could be on this earth.

A person can't live by what is taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints without believing totally in the divinity of Jesus Christ, accepting the totality of the First Vision as the Church tells it, or attending all Church meetings. So your conjecture on the happiness of people outside of that organization does not apply.

If you are saying that a person living ethically, loving his neighbor, performing service for others without expectation of reward, raising moral and kind children, etc. can be as happy as they could be on this earth, then you are absolutely right. Unfortunately, these actions are only a small part of the totality of what it is to be a Mormon.

You said, "It is an imperfect institution led by imperfect people."  There is nothing in the world that is perfect.  There is no person who is perfect.

I don't think anyone would argue with you there, Charity. I think one of the main sticking points of ex- or anti-Mormons is that Mormons are required to follow their leaders unquestioningly as if they were perfect. President Hinckley called this "unquestioning loyalty" in General Conference.

People get things wrong sometimes.  It doesn't matter where.  The first time someone got something wrong we are supposed to throw out the institution?  The principal of our grade school (many years ago) was arrested for "lewd" behavior. So do we shut the school down?  A former governor of the state of Oregon was found to have sexually abused a neighbor girl many years before.  Do we dismantle the state government?

This is something of a straw man argument. Do we throw out the Gospel and the Church because a local bishop had sex with one of his Relief Society sisters? Of course not. But do we throw out the Gospel and the Church if Joseph Smith practiced polygamy in secret while denying it publicly? Or when it is proven that the Book of Abraham and the Facsimiles end up having nothing to do with the papyrus from which they were ostensibly translated? That's a different set of circumstances there. The question then becomes, "How does one reconcile the truth with one's religious beliefs, especially when said beliefs must rest almost wholly on the authenticity of Joseph Smith and his calling?"

For, you see, if Joseph Smith was what he said he was, everything that has ever happened in the Church is justifiable (the archives here at FAIR, I daresay, are proof of that maxim). If he was not, then the Church and the Restoration is a fraud of Scientological proportions. There are "great and spacious building" dwellers on both sides of the fence shooting barbs at each other trying to validate their own opinions on this issue.

Tolerant and loving to people who have left the Church?  I don't see anyone on this board who is not tolerant and loving to individuals.  I do see people express opinions that we are responsible for what we do.  We can choose the actions we want to take. We must accept the consequences of those actions. We can't pick and choose consequences.  If redman wants to leave the Church, he is welcome to do so, of course.  No one will force him to stay in.  But we should point out to him that his actions will affect many other people. We can love him and accept his decision.  He cannot make his decision in a vacuum, as though his decision won't affect his family.

Try turning this argument around, Charity, and have it apply to someone who has investigated the Church and decided to join, even though their family members aren't LDS and do not want them to join:

If so-and-so wants to join the Church, he is welcome to do so, of course. No one will force him to stay out. But we should point out to him that his actions will affect many other people. We can love him and accept his decision. He cannot make his decision in a vacuum, as though his decision won't affect his family.

Now, the TBMs I know would look at THAT paragraph and say to themselves, "How condescending is their attitude! For he has found the truth and is showing the courage to stand up for that truth by being baptized! They will soon see that his decision will strengthen his family through his example, etc."

My point is, Charity, that you and other TBMs seem fixated on the concept that people only leave the Church or find problems with it because they are tempted by Satan, are bitter and angry, or some other negative connotation that is unflattering to the dissenter. And yet, when someone takes the opposite road, it is an act of courage, enlightenment, and integrity.

I believe redman's actions and the actions of anyone in his position are every bit as courageous, enlightened, and full of integrity as the potential convert's. Would you rather redman go to Church, knowing within his heart that he cannot believe that Gordon B. Hinckley is a prophet or that the rest of the GAs are prophets, seers, and revelators? Would you have him be a hypocrite in silence, performing an act for those around him to keep the peace?

[winn]

Redman, This is the first time I have posted here. I understand your position. I went through the same thing about 1.5yrs ago. Infact I removed my garments and proclaimed myself as a none believer. I had been a very faithful saint and a "TBM." You know how it is-- Temple marriage, RM, AP, Elders Quorum Pres. I quickly found out that my been true to self (so to speak) held unchangable consquences. After 15 years of a good marriage- it was almost destoryed over night. I became a outsider in friendships and social settings. I not blaming anyone -it just happens. I still go to church with my family in hopes to keep my marriage intact. I don't feel that taking a calling is right so I don't. This has not put me in a favorable spot light in the ward. Some people have said hurtful things that have been hard to deal with. I did not realize what new challenges would come and I cannot say it has been worth it. I hope you choose carefully and give yourself time.

[Kenngo1969]

Redman, This is the first time I have posted here. I understand your position. I went through the same thing about  1.5yrs ago. Infact I removed my garments and proclaimed myself as a none believer. I had been a very faithful saint and a "TBM." You know how it is-- Temple marriage, RM, AP, Elders Quorum Pres.  I quickly found out that my been true to self (so to speak) held unchangable consquences. After 15 years of a good marriage- it was almost destoryed over night. I became a outsider in friendships and social settings. I not blaming anyone -it just happens. I still go to church with my family in hopes to keep my marriage intact. I don't feel that taking a calling is right so I don't.  This has not put me in a favorable spot light in the ward. Some people have said hurtful things that have been hard to deal with. I did not realize what new challenges would come  and I cannot say it has been worth it. I hope you choose carefully and give yourself time.

"Give himself time"...? Twenty-six years isn't enough, especially when one is convinced one has all of the information necessary definitively to answer one's questions about the Church in the negative, and especially when one can't possibly envision acquiring new information or perspective between now and one's death that might cause one's judgment to mellow--if not, indeed, to change...? Surely you're not suggesting something like that could happen to Redman are you??? ...The temerity... Indeed, the gall!

Redman, the fact of the matter is, I'm really not sure there's all that much difference between you and me: the only real difference I see is that while we both have questions, one of us has made what purports to be the ultimate definitive judgment(s) regarding those questions, while the other of us is determined to "wait upon the Lord," for they that do so "shall not be ashamed"; to remember that His thoughts are not our thoughts, neither are our ways His ways, for as the Heavens are higher than the earth, so are the Lord's thoughts higher than our thoughts, and His ways higher than our ways; to remember that we "see through a glass, darkly"; to remember that while we "don't know the meaning of all things, nevertheless, [we] know that God loveth His children"; to remember to "seek not to counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from His hand"; to remember that God "is able to do [His] own work"; to remember that while "the Lord knoweth all things, and there is not anything save He knows it," I, by contrast, am far from omniscient; and to remember that whatever the state of one's testimony, it's probably not a good idea to check on how well the fruit is growing by yanking the plant out of the ground and checking on its roots...

[Bertram]

charity,

I read this in my latest E-Mail from Deseret Book Company, and, immediately thought of you and those posters TRYING to beat you down:

DAILY THOUGHT.

"Have you noticed in the scriptures that hope seldom stands alone? Hope is often linked with faith. Hope and faith are commonly connected to charity. Why? Because hope is essential to faith; faith is essential to hope; faith and hope are essential to charity.

Russell M. Nelson.

Perfection Pending.

[Ron]

Redman,

Another perspective that has helped me is understanding the theory that humans are pushed to find meaning in their lives by four different needs: Purpose, value, efficacy, and self worth. If those four needs are met then life is meaningful.

Religion with all of its warts has done a pretty good job of fulfilling those needs.

When I lost my belief I thought that everyone would be better off if they could just see through the facade as I had. I'm not so sure thats true any more. I believe religions exist because people need and hunger for meaning.

I don't know that our species has come up with a better way of fulfilling those needs for the masses than religion has provided up to this point.

If what you are experiencing is like mine then you are probably striving for or have already found alternative sources of meaning that provide for your needs. If not you may be experiencing a meaning vaccuum.

I think the reason my wife became depressed when I lost my testimony was because deep down what I was saying made sense and it caused her to lose her meaning in life and she was in no way prepared to deal with it. For example, raising lots of children became a drudgery as opposed to a noble and exalting cause.

[Abulafia]

Hey Bertram, no one is trying to beat Charity down, infact I would say she is well qualified to write on the complications and the issues that come up since she has experienced it first hand.

I think most reasonable people here appreciate that from a faith point of view, active LDS really do believe what they are saying, just as those do, who have found a different path.

Wouldn't it be nice though to have a little more understanding, on both sides of the coin. Active LDS to understand that for many, leaving IS an act of faith, and courage based on what they feel to be right and square with their conscience.

I left behind no family or disappointed children, but I found leaving the church to be supremely difficult. The proverbial rug is dragged from under your proverbial feet.

Many years of habit and dare I say 'conditioning' do leave an indelible mark, and I still like to associate myself with all that is good in mormonism. I think that even the most hardened of ex or post mormons would agree that there was at least some good to be had in their experience within the LDS faith.

There are subjects and issues within the LDS church that I do not wish to be associated with. I'll be quite honest about that. I came to a point where I couldn't do what Kengo did and does, but that doesn't mean that I do not respect people that are like him for keeping on going.

Abulafia

[charity]

To Tragic, and Ron, and Winn, and Abulafia, and Redman,

I am very sorry for the turmoil that you have all experienced in your lives. Abulafia sounds as though she is reconsiled now. Probably, because as she says, there were no complicating family factors.

What seems most tragic to me, is that I think the turmoil has not been necessary. Our purpose in life is to return to our Father in Heaven. Struggles and doubts are the human condition. We are required to walk by faith.

Of course, you know what my view is. The saving ordinances are with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I am convinced that you will never be able to have the quality of life outside the Church as you could being in the Church and believing. Not faking it. But being believers. I know you think that is not possible.

Even where you are, I am confident that you can overcome the stumbling blocks that have been put in your way. All of you have expressed doubts about Joseph Smith. I wish I could let you have the knowledge I have. Something on the order of the Vulcan mind meld would do it!

But barring that, if you would concentrate on the Book of Mormon. Read the Book of Mormon. Read the evidences of the Book of Mormon from the scholarly sites. And when you understand how impossible it is for the Book of Mormon not to be what it purports to be, an ancient document, then all else will fall into place.

I have family members who are struggling as you are. And I know what they are going through. I wish I could take your doubts and questions and answer them one by one with the knowledge and witness that I have. Since I can't, I will just yearn over you all.

Love, Charity

[Magyar]

To Tragic, and Ron, and Winn, and Abulafia, and Redman,

I am very sorry for the turmoil that you have all experienced in your lives. Abulafia sounds as though she is reconsiled now. Probably, because as she says, there were no complicating family factors.

What seems most tragic to me, is that I think the turmoil has not been necessary. Struggles and doubts are the human condition. Our purpose in life is to return to our Father in Heaven. Struggles and doubts are the human condition. We are required to walk by faith.

Of course, you know what my view is. The saving ordinances are with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I am convinced that you will never be able to have the quality of life outside the Church as you could being in the Church and believing. Not faking it. But being believers. I know you think that is not possible.

Even where you are, I am confident that you can overcome the stumbling blocks that have been put in your way. All of you have expressed doubts about Joseph Smith. I wish I could let you have the knowledge I have. Something on the order of the Vulcan mind meld would do it!

But barring that, if you would concentrate on the Book of Mormon. Read the Book of Mormon. Read the evidences of the Book of Mormon from the scholarly sites. And when you understand how impossible it is for the Book of Mormon not to be what it purports to be, an ancient document, then all else will fall into place.

I have family members who are struggling as you are. And I know what they are going through. I wish I could take your doubts and questions and answer them one by one with the knowledge and witness that I have. Since I can't, I will just yearn over you all.

Love, Charity

God bless you, Charity.

[Abulafia]

See Charity. You Know I'll have my own opinions about some of what you say, but you are just so darned nice, and I really like you, so I don't have the heart to respond...

Abulafia

[Tragic Mind]

But barring that, if you would concentrate on the Book of Mormon.  Read the Book of Mormon. Read the evidences of the Book of Mormon from the scholarly sites. And when you understand how impossible it is for the Book of Mormon not to be what it purports to be, an ancient document, then all else will fall into place.

Charity, you're a very nice person and I'm sure if religion didn't enter into the discussion we'd easily be friends. So please take what I'm about to say with the enormous grain of salt I intend you to take it with...

My issues with LDS doctrine began by reading the Book of Mormon. Maybe I've got a defective gene or my brain isn't wired correctly, but the first time I read the Book of Mormon all the way through as a teenager I was floored. And not in a good way. Zenos? Zenock? Full chapters of the Bible -- in King James translation, no less -- transplanted into the BoM? Greek-named apostles among the Nephites? A general in Moroni whose rhetoric about liberty and freedom came straight out of the American Revolution? These things and more screamed at me from the pages. Naturally, I thought I was sinning and that I needed to read it closer and focus on the doctrine. But the more I read, the less I could accept it as anything but a poorly-written and anachronistic novel. With each reading, the revivalist rhetoric, the absolute specificity of reference to Joseph Smith coupled with the utter noncommittal, generalized references to events beyond Joseph's time... it all just got worse.

I prayed. Prayed like you wouldn't believe. Even when I got to the MTC, I kept praying and fasting. One night I went out onto the MTC lawn and got on my knees and spent two hours praying about it -- my companions thought I had gone AWOL! But I got no answer.

So I hit upon a strategy. Focus on the individual verses set aside in the discussions and the scripture mastery scriptures and try not to think too hard about the rest. That worked for a while, but every so often I'd start over and read from the beginning and everything would crash down upon me again.

Everyone I talked to said, "Just keep reading. And bear your testimony about it more often. Your witness will come." Others said, "You're not feasting upon the word. You are being too superficial," as if they had witnessed every moment of my study. The capper was when people would tell me, "You don't want to believe enough" or "You lack faith." I begged to differ -- nobody wanted to believe it more than I did! I felt as if I was a broken puppet, as if I had something fundamentally wrong with me.

I spent years trying to find the sin that I had committed that was blocking my spiritual progress. My bishops started seeing me as a spiritual hypochondriac from the number of times I'd come in with a new confession...

Eventually, of course, I discovered why I felt the way I did and it was as if I had received an injection of morphine into an amputated limb. The feeling of peace, of clarity, and utter relief I felt was exactly what I was supposed to have felt as a confirming witness of the Book of Mormon -- and yet it came as I realized that the Book of Mormon was not true.

Since then, people have been telling me that the feelings I felt were a deception, artificial, inspired by Satan. My response is, "Why does Satan send me clarity while God sends me confusion, distress, and emotional and spiritual pain?"

I do not begrudge you your beliefs, Charity, nor anyone else's here at this board. But please do not tell me that reading the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, or the Ensign will solve all of my problems and questions. I've already gone down that road with faith and hope, and my faith and hope were not rewarded by anything that had been promised to me by my Church leaders and fellow members. Whereas you have found peace in faith, I have found mine in reason. I think the main thing is not the manner by which we found it -- only that we have it.

Regards,

TM

[nezumi]

But barring that, if you would concentrate on the Book of Mormon.

[redman]

Tragic Mind wrote:

My issues with LDS doctrine began by reading the Book of Mormon. Maybe I've got a defective gene or my brain isn't wired correctly, but the first time I read the Book of Mormon all the way through as a teenager I was floored. And not in a good way. Zenos? Zenock? Full chapters of the Bible -- in King James translation, no less -- transplanted into the BoM? Greek-named apostles among the Nephites? A general in Moroni whose rhetoric about liberty and freedom came straight out of the American Revolution? These things and more screamed at me from the pages. Naturally, I thought I was sinning and that I needed to read it closer and focus on the doctrine. But the more I read, the less I could accept it as anything but a poorly-written and anachronistic novel. With each reading, the revivalist rhetoric, the absolute specificity of reference to Joseph Smith coupled with the utter noncommittal, generalized references to events beyond Joseph's time... it all just got worse.

wow. did you read my mind? i could easily have written the same thing. the inconsistencies, the anachronisms, the doctrines we don't even believe in (heaven/hell, no repentance after death, etc) have plagued me every time i've read the BoM since i was a teenager. like you, i always wondered why i was the only one that found so many problems when everyone else found it so inspiring. maybe we both have the same defective gene. i think it's found on chromosome 15.

on my mission, there was a program among the missionaries where we were asked to read a fresh copy of the BoM and highlight it using a blue pencil to circle any mention of the savior and a red pencil to highlight his teachings. well after about a week of this little excercise, i quit doing it because the BoM teachings on the godhead and the trinity are hopelessly confusing. i talked to my MP about it and he tried to help me out, but i never really got any resolution on the issue. like a good righteous missionary, i finished the project but i had to throw all intellectual thinking to the wind to make any sense of it.

i've always found the BoM really hard to swallow but, like you, i tried for years to find meaning and truth in it. now that i'm at where i'm at, exhortations to "just read the BoM" make me want to laugh and cry. if i had just read little verses out of context here and there like most people do, i never would have noticed the problems. i actually stopped reading it a while back to try to avoid confusion and just focus on the good day to day teachings of the gospel. i wish i could just pick it up and read and find the answers to all my questions, but my confidence in that happening is pretty much zero.