What if you want the church to be true,

[catholic]

My point is that you seemed preturbed that I would presume to opine that a spouse of an apostate would possibly "disown" (divorce) their wayward spouse.

I am preturbed that it is that easy to break the bond of marriage.

"...Honey I am having second thoughts of the church.."

"That's it...I am outta here!"

There are going to be tough times in a marriage, life. It is just not black and white and if your significant other...your soul mate cannot see your side and either understand or help to understand, then perhaps this is a marriage of convenience then of truth.

If you say that this is the LDS culture (and you would know more than I would) my geniune feeling is how sad...how sad that if doubts, questions or re-evaluations enters oneself that the spouse will not have anything to do with it....

[lizzy]

redman said; I've always been a voracious reader and the more I have learned about the Church over the past several years the more I have felt that something was very wrong

[redman]

(I)'m going into the specialty of Internal Medicine (adult general medicine) because i love interacting with people and taking care of the old codgers.

Yeah ... That term shows a great deal of respect for your prospective patients, Doc. If you greeted my dad with, "How ya doin' today, old codger?" he'd probably not let the door hit him in the gluteus maximus on the way out ... after flattening you with one punch!

you know, you're really something ken. are you this combative in your interactions with real live people?

i used the term "old codgers" as a term of endearment. of course i wouldn't say that to a patient. i really do like working with elderly people and taking care of their medical problems.

lay off with the inflammatory stuff. i thought this board was for civil discussion, not personal attacks.

[randyc]

redman said; I've always been a voracious reader and the more I have learned about the Church over the past several years the more I have felt that something was very wrong

[randyc]

So, if someone is going to leave a spouse because that person has changed his beliefs, then would it not make sense given the intimacy and trust of such a relationship for both partners to look at the evidence together, for the one who has not changed beliefs to consider what the other has found?

My fiance left me a couple weeks ago because I no longer believed there was a God. She was, however, unwilling to even consider what I had found (because, according to her, she might not be able to give a rebuttal the issues I would bring up- despite her great intelligence- and might end up changing her mind, which she thought would be bad somehow). It became clear to me that she would rather be with a fake God than be with me.

[Bertram]

The LDS CHURCH does NOT advocate DIVORCE if a spouse goes inactive!

There are THOUSANDS of INACTIVE people in Loving Marriages.

[Kenngo1969]

[Y]ou know, you're really something [K]en. are you this combative in your interactions with real live people?

Yes ... The truth is, I'm not only combative, I'm The Devil Incarnate! Women, children, small animals

[Sput]

So, if someone is going to leave a spouse because that person has changed his beliefs, then would it not make sense given the intimacy and trust of such a relationship for both partners to look at the evidence together, for the one who has not changed beliefs to consider what the other has found?

My fiance left me a couple weeks ago because I no longer believed there was a God. She was, however, unwilling to even consider what I had found (because, according to her, she might not be able to give a rebuttal the issues I would bring up- despite her great intelligence- and might end up changing her mind, which she thought would be bad somehow). It became clear to me that she would rather be with a fake God than be with me.

Id rather be wrong about their being a god then not being a god.

[redman]

Yes ... The truth is, I'm not only combative, I'm The Devil Incarnate! Women, children, small animals

[chiaroscuro]

Kengo1969, you sure have said some...interesting...things. Okay, moronic things. Get off your soapbox and stop telling people they should live fake lives. Back on page 20 asbestosman and cacheman both asked you pretty much the same question. You evaded it once but never really answered it.

This issue is one of my biggest gripes with Christianity--so much emphasis on which door you select that being true to oneself actually gets seen as a bad thing!

chiaro

[Sput]

tell me this - if your wife came to you today and said "honey, i'm sorry to say this but i just don't believe that the church is what it claims to be. but i love you just the same and i want to keep our relationship strong," what would you say to her? would you ask her to deny her feelings and convictions in order to make you happy? or would you accept her for what she is? would it make you happy if she just went along with the game in order to keep up appearances all the while not believing?

Id say yes I married you expecting you to honor your endowment with heavenly father and sealings to me. Still be active with me cause its rather sucky to go to church alone. Now to accept callings and stuff is a personal choice. If she had a temple recommend id ask her to return it.

[asbestosman]

at this point faking it seems be what you're advocating. i can't just magically change the conclusions i've come to. that was the whole point of this thread. i wanted this church to be true, but i can't believe.

Faking isn't necessary. Just ask Mighty Curelom if you can borrow his "bizarro world goggles".

You could convince yourself that just about anything is true. It follows that you could convince yourself that the church is true. On the flip side, I think it's important to realize that one might just as easily convince himself that the church isn't true.

I don't recommend faking it. I recommend being careful. If you have no need to actually break commandments and so on, then why not coninue to attend and participate even if you don't believe? I don't think that's faking it. If you think God has called you to another church, I guess that's a different matter. Only you would know your heart.

[Kenngo1969]

but what exactly are you proposing? do you honestly think that all people should just do whatever it takes to keep peace in the home regardless of whether they feel their actions are wrong?

I

[randyc]

No disrespect, but the path you

[redman]

I

[charity]

Redman, what is your path? If you leave the Church, or activity in it, what will you do? If you were not to consider your wife in any decision making, what will your life be like? If it is drastically different than now, then you need to consider the impact on her. If it wouldn't be drastically different, then what would it hurt to be a non-believing attender? We moved into a branch one time, and it was months before we knew that Brother L**** was not even a member of the Church. He was there with his family at every meeting, held callings which did not require the priesthood, etc. , fully supported his wife and children in their callings. He didn't have to believe a thing. Is that an option for you?

[redman]

Redman, what is your path? If you leave the Church, or activity in it, what will you do?  If you were not to consider your wife in any decision making, what will your life be like?  If it is drastically different than now, then you need to consider the impact on her. If it wouldn't be drastically different, then what would it hurt to be a non-believing attender?  We moved into a branch one time, and it was months before we knew that Brother L**** was not even a member of the Church.  He was there with his family at every meeting, held callings which did not require the priesthood, etc. , fully supported his wife and children in their callings.  He didn't have to believe a thing.  Is that an option for you?

yeah that's a very likely option. i think i said somewhere earlier in this thread that i would go with her if for no other reason than to help avoid the stigma that would be placed on her if she were to attend alone. the other thing is our daughter. i play with her during most of church anyway (she's 1 and very rambunctious), so my wife couldn't really do it alone, plus she teaches young women's.

i have great friends in my ward and i enjoy socializing on sundays, so i wouldn't necessarily just leave and never show my face again.

[fair_addict]

Moral issues such as guilt tripping young boys over masturbation

Redman,

Do you think masterbation is a sin? The way you put your statement made me think that you do not think it is a sin.

[redman]

Redman,

Do you think masterbation is a sin? The way you put your statement made me think that you do not think it is a sin.

why don't we address this issue in a separate thread, if you feel inclined. this thread has been derailed enough already, and i really didn't start it to debate these issues. plus the moderators seem to quickly close most threads dealing with masturbation, so i don't know if it's worth it to even talk about it.

[Bertram]

I agree.

That subject has been discussed ad infinitum on other threads already!

[nikaya]

redman, I admire your courage to say the things others have felt, but were afraid to say. What I want to know is, if you are sure of your feeling that the church is not true, then how do you feel about raising your daughter in that same church? I only ask because you said you could still go to church for your wife and child. I think "faking it" by going to keep up appearances is sad. I am in a somewhat similar situation, except my husand doesn't doesn't go either right now. But he's still mostly believing. I do feel for you it is a tough spot to be in.

[charity]

Nikaya, You have confused me. You were asking questions about the temple in another thread, and yet it appears from what you just said that you no longer believe in the Church. Why would you ask about the temple then, since it would obviously have no meaning for you?

[Tchild2]

Kennongo wrote:

I

[nikaya]

I was asking because I was curious. I have never been through, and I have read so many contradicting things, I just wondered if you could stop in the middle and ask questions, because I've head people tell me it was weird, and I thought - then why didn't you stop and ask why they were doing that. I am not going to church because I have had a feeling that it wasn' t true, and I am trying to see what it is that makes my family believe so whole heartedly, since that has never been my experience. I am trying to better understand since the only reason I ever went to church was because I was told to, or because I didn't know anything else.

[charity]

If you are seeking answers, ask away. I can tell you, that even the first time I went through the temple ordinances, there was nothing so weird I wanted to stop everything and get an explanation. And if you want answers, the place is not an anti-mormon website where you can feel the anger and bitternes. You may get pseudo-intellectual information, but the Spirit cannot testify to you of truth surrounded by such negative emotions. Is there someone you know who could answer all your questions, without you feeling defenseive (such as you might asking questions of familiy members), such as a seminary or institute teacher?