JVW

Yeah, that's what we've been discussing in this thread. Satanic Panic was conspiracy. Child trafficking is conspiracy. Secret Combinations are conspiracy. Conspiracy can be hard to prove when witnesses die. Yeah it's so stupid. I hate the government.

I agree with you and I understand what you're saying. We all have to make our best guess about what God is thinking. Those who think that the problem of evil means that God is evil; or those who believe God created us and then left us alone in some sort of cruel experiment; or those who believe that God used evolution as a means to create life; whatever ideas people have about God are all implicit in that person having a certain idea, based on their own perception and experiences, about how God thinks. I don't know for other religions, but I know for Christianity in general that one verse in Isaiah would be the reason why a Christian would say "I don't know the mind of God." The verse says something like "my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts." While I have read a lot of religious text since my conversion, I have spent many years distant from God, not studying much religious material, and it was during those years that I had the fiercest struggles with Him and learned the most about Him (through my life experiences). But I definitely feel like "the blind man and the elephant" fable is apt here. I'm touching the trunk and think the animal I'm touching is a serpent. I firmly believe that the way that I know God know is 99% wrong and will evolve and change as I grow older and will still be just as wrong when I die. I'm no prophet. I'm just a simple minded foolish kind of guy. As to the latter two parts of your text regarding why God remains mysterious and hiding so well I have my own belief about that, and it's a pretty satisfactory answer for me at this point in my life. It's basically that the more I know, the more I'll be condemned when I break the law. So, out of love, in order to exercise the least amount of justice against me as possible I'm kept in the dark. That is why faith exists and why God remains hidden. I am very happy that God lets me make really bad decisions. And I'm happy that in many cases I really don't know better because I'm an idiot and God hasn't revealed very much to me so I operate a lot on a "desire to believe". I've enjoyed chatting with you brother, this is a hard topic.

Yeah, you say that, except, you know, like the primary Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre is dead, you may have heard of the Clinton body count (my favorite victim is the one who hung himself but had a gunshot wound to the chest), the accuser of that Italian PM I mentioned earlier is dead, the girl that didn't recant her testimony in the King case I video linked earlier got sentenced to 15 years in prison and served 5, and her brother is dead, one of the accusers that recanted their testimony is dead. All of that goes without saying that trauma this deep tends to cause Dissociative Identity Disorder - that outcome was actually the desired result of MK Ultra - so the victim's testimonies are easily discounted or viewed as manipulated. Epstein is also a great example of this. There was actual evidence, there was actual known stuff, and not one arrest besides Epstein and Ghislaine. 4 known co-conspirators aren't allowed to be charged because of a deal Epstein made in court. Prince Andrew, with the latest allegations, is still living the high life. Again referencing the King video I shared, the day after the chief investigator died in a plane explosion the FBI raided his house to collect any evidence that was there. So yeah, I would say it's pretty easy for them to keep it secret. Nobody wants to know about it. Nobody wants to see it. Everyone wants to believe that it's not true because nobody is that evil. And the people who are doing this are rich enough to buy a country, the State, the government, the police, the courts, etc.

Here is something without any images that is "so dark and disgusting and abusive, but not criminal" to view. This is about the child abuse situation in Israel, (it is a current article written this year) it doesn't describe the rituals as "Satanic" but as "religious" with Rabbis participating. https://beeley.substack.com/p/israel-girls-raped-in-ritual-ceremonies On the images side, seeing images of kids tied up, or with black eyes, or with blood smeared on them and on walls, or even something more abstract like the hanging statue "arch of hysteria" hanging in Tony Podesta's home; a statue depicting how someone looks during their most extreme moment of pain and torture https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/06/26/arts/0627-BOUR_2.html. Or paintings by MK Ultra survivors. Here's one, for example: https://i0.wp.com/www.winterwatch.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Kim-Noble.jpg?resize=600%2C350&ssl=1 There are all sorts of things that are legal to view but are dark and disturbing.

People post online because they want to communicate with their peers. Here's an example from my own life. Around 20 years ago I believed that I was a Psychic Vampire (psy vamp) and so I plugged myself into the Sanguinarian community. On those forums and websites were people who believed the same as me. All Sanguinarians believe that their life force is leaking out of them and that psy vamps would subconsciously drain the energy of those around them in order to maintain normal life force levels. That a psy vamp could train their powers to be conscious about who they are draining and how much energy they are getting. And that blood vampires had their psychic abilities blocked but that those channels could be opened by drinking blood. Many of the blood vamps had relationships with their local butchers and would buy cow or pigs blood. Many of them had set up human donors, as there were spaces on these sites to sign up as a blood donor for a blood vamp. Some of these people were in relationships. There were all sorts of people. Anyways, this subculture was incredibly niche, there were not many of us who chatted. But any posting we did was for the community and to build bonds within the community. None of us were like street preachers trying to spread the word and gain popularity, we were just trying to fit in and have a good time. While there are many in the child abuse community who are advocating for normalization, there are many, many more who just want to chat with their friends in the community and share their material and stuff without any attention paid. The video I posted from King Trout only has one sentence in it about Satanic rituals because at least one of the witnesses mentioned observing them. But the video was primarily about child trafficking and abuse among politicians, chief of police, etc. One of the videos that I won't share here is a documentary where the filmmaker interviews a pregnant woman, a "fence", and a trafficker who is paying 10k to sign their name as the father on the birth certificate and take the baby. It is available on YouTube last time I checked. The trafficker who was interviewed discussed secret words, tokens, and signs that his organization uses and talked about how the trafficking industry works in Europe. The other video documents a lot of evidence around pizza gate stuff and is very well put together but it is on bitchute, which from what I can tell is mostly just a place where neo-nazis like to hang out and watch videos. The guy did a 4 part series, and he's done some other work investigating things like Epstein, the TerraMar project that Ghislaine is involved in, or Hollywood trafficking (i.e Isaac Kappy). There is another video which is an interview with this dutch guy who used to be in international finance, I don't remember his name but I could try and dig it up. He is just chatting about how he rose to his position, what he had to do in his position, why he chose to leave his position (he was invited to participate in a Satanic child sacrifice ritual), and what he alleges to be why he's allowed to still live and how many people are part of that circle. He estimated in the video around 8,000 people worldwide. That is a very, very small number and would make keeping the secrets relatively easy to do. I believe his testimony, but he's just one guy and could be lying. If I find the video I'll post it up here because it's pretty tame and an enjoyable watch. Cheers!

I would agree if the experience happened in the realm of normal human experience. But when having an experience with the divine, it involves feelings beyond the normal human range of feeling, and the perception is beyond the normal human range of perception. It's just different and the knowledge is obtained in a unique manner that no amount of observation or experiments could ever have an equal amount of convincing weight. I just know. Sorry that it's so hard to explain. But it is, in fact, because of the one or two experiences I've had of receiving knowledge in this way that makes me so cautious and cynical about other people when they say "I know" something. To really know something is on a different level.

In communities and various circles people get plugged in and they use their own language and symbols to talk about things in a very casual way. I'm sure that many of these people are being watched by the FBI. The dark places of the internet aren't popular and are hidden, so there's no motive to shock and gain viewers. Many of these posts have very small number of views and if they gained traction they'd probably be deleted because they don't want attention. The image, out of everything I've seen on instagram, that actually has haunted me the most was, oddly, an image of a dimly lit basement, the kind that you'd see in a snuff film. The basement was clean, but for whatever reason it really spooked me. That image alone, even with the subtle context of abuse, doesn't have anything incriminating about it, but man for some reason it really freaked me out to see it.

lol, no, I haven't looked at that kind of stuff or downloaded that kind of stuff. Person of interest is a great show by the way.

Born in mid to late 1980's

No way... that's crazy what they did to that picture. Though, I suppose, if it saved just one young boy from the temptation to masturbate then it was worth it. See my above post to hopefully answer your question.

That's how my wife feels. She used the same word, "gaslighting". Because the church and people are all acting like garments were never about modesty and that she's crazy for feeling the way she feels. It's something that was ingrained in her soul since she was a little girl and she can't just flip a switch and suddenly feel ok about showing her shoulders.

Lol. Well according to my wife, she was told that showing her shoulders was a sin as she was growing up. Not just by her mother, but in church classes, etc. It was a big cultural thing that garments were tied to modesty, at least for her (she was raised in Utah county). And I can believe that that was the case for many generations. My mother was raised in Seattle in an LDS home and garments/modesty was a huge thing for her. I think her parents were the type that tried to bathe with them on and stuff. My wife has had issues with this garment change, she's been pretty upset.

My wife is a historical clothing enthusiast and I share this same pet peeve with her. If they are making garments with the excuse "these are for people in hotter climates" then why the heck are they making them out of plastic. They should be cotton or linen. I like the slip garment for naughty reasons, and I imagine many boys will share my enthusiasm. At the way things are changing I could honestly see women garments becoming a strapless bra with an upside down triangle attached for the belly button symbol. They already have garment bottoms that ride high above the knee, so they could become like booty shorts. I honestly don't care very much how garments end up. I think modesty is kind of the least of our worries as a culture and society around the world right now. Modesty is more like a symptom and with how desensitized men are getting in this porn culture a woman wearing sleeves or a long skirt isn't going to really ruffle any feathers for anyone.

I'm not sure how exposed the secret combinations were actually, during the time when they were among the people. I honestly don't even know how Mormon or whoever wrote the book of Ether were aware of them. How did Mormon know about the plot to poison the general by degrees? How did Nephi know about the brother who assassinated the chief judge? etc.? Mormon was a way more hardcore conspiracy theorist than I am. I assume he, or the other authors in the book of Mormon were given visions or revelations from God about it or something. Or maybe they just paid attention to little unproveable bread crumbs like what conspiracy theorists do today, only, since they wrote the book, they could make their theories sound declarative. I don't think we actually have any evidence that the Gadianton Robbers ever existed. Or that there was a Master Mahan who started the first secret combination or whatever. But it is interesting that Mormon says that we'll be able to see evidence of secret combinations in the days before Christ comes. And he may have just meant conspiracies like what Larry Ellison is doing, or what companies do with planned obsolescence, etc. The secret combinations he describes took blood oaths, and he is implying that we'll be able to find them if we look.

I don't. How do you know they aren't real? We can play that game if you want.

Agreed, these specific allegations carry no proof. The videos that I'm unwilling to share here present a stronger case, or if you take time to go down the Instagram pedo rabbit hole and start seeing really deep, dark, satanic imagery paired with photos of abused children, then inferences can start being made about what's happening behind closed doors during the abuse. Regardless of how strong or weak the circumstantial evidence may be for Satanic rituals or Satanic worship being present among certain powerful circles; I don't think there will ever be any conclusive evidence regarding this. Looking at just child abuse circles in general, like Epstein (who had a temple, but also after death his island was blocked off, stripped, and tunnels were filled with concrete), there is a great deal of care to keep the secret stuff secret, and for nobody to get in trouble even if the ring leader is caught. I don't know if you heard of the Franklin Scandal. This 18 minute video on it is my favorite presentation of the information regarding the scandal, but you can learn about it however you want. The end result of this was that the one witness who didn't recant her testimony got sentenced to 15 years in prison, and the alleged perpetrator got sentenced to 15 years in prison for the financial crimes he had committed. Also, the guy who was investigating ended up dying in a plane explosion. And there was a whole bunch of other unrelated deaths of people associated with the perpetrator, victims, and investigation listed out at timestamp 15:37. (By the way, King Trout's video about Portobello mushrooms is insane, highly recommended.) Funny enough, the main reason I believe it will never come to light is because of the Book of Mormon. The way that it describes how the secret oaths and combinations occur. They have their own ceremonies, their own rituals, their own signs and tokens, and their own codewords and language. And if anyone narcs they are dead (as well as probably their familes). There are some very deep, secret bonds forged when it comes to Satan's version of the temple or the priesthood, and those aren't easily broken, and if they ever are the world will assist in burying it, as id did with Epstein, and with King in the 80s/90s.

I found this, no clue how accurate it is, https://github.com/opensourcehistory/lds-missionaries/blob/main/Number of Latter-day Saint Missionaries by Year.md I think you may be right if the numbers on this page are cumulative missionaries but current numbers are full-time proselyting only.

I wonder what the Missionaries to Mission President ratio is. I don't view this as indicative of church growth because the number of missionaries we have now is less than we have had (I swear we had over 100k missionaries at one point). I view this change as the brethren wanting Mission Presidents to have more influence in their missions and a better relationship with their missionaries in order to facilitate the work with better focus and vision in smaller geographical areas.

I am very particular when I use the term "I know" and what I told you in the above quote are the only things I truly know. Of course I know things like "2+2=4" and "I need to drink water or I'll die", things like that. But all of that other stuff presupposes that I am actually existing right now and not dreaming. Setting material stuff aside and focusing only on the religious, everything else that I'm aware of is on a scale of belief. I don't know that Jesus is the son of God, or that His atonement actually happened. I don't know that the Book of Mormon is true. I don't know if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's church. I don't even know if I believe in the Holy Bible, or the priesthood, or Joseph Smith. As to each of these topics, I could give a scale out of ten response to how much I believe, or how much I want to believe, in these things. I appreciate you being very sensitive to the use of the phrase "I know" because it indicates to me a strong, critical thinking mind. I am also sensitive to that phrase and fast and testimony meeting usually drives me up a wall. People aren't very thoughtful and I think it's especially tragic when a little kid is "encouraged" to go up and says "I know the church is true. etc, etc." Whether you believe me or not, based on the experience I have had, that I cannot prove to anyone else, I am absolutely 100% certain that there is a God, that God (idk whether God is in human form, or has a gender, or whether God is Allah or the God of Israel) is love, and that there is an afterlife. We are all in for a real treat when we die, and those who don't believe me can just enjoy the nice surprise after they die, because I'm not wrong here. I know it. If my assertion that I know there is a God is what makes me appear to be proud and arrogant, then so be it. I know it. But you started getting on me about knowing the mind of God before I made that assertion so I don't think that's why you've been on me about that. You are welcome to be skeptical and I honestly cannot fault you for being skeptical. There's nothing I've read on this forum that you've written that I thought was unreasonable to believe.

You kind of have me confused here. I've been giving my opinion, based on where I'm currently at with my walk with God. You're making me out to be some sort of proud, arrogant, holier-than-thou jerk.

I think this is a really beautiful thought, thanks for sharing. It'll definitely be something that I mentally "chew" on for the foreseeable future as I continue to try to understand who Jesus is and how I can be more like Him.

In the spirit of Halloween I present a few news articles for your consideration. Both are hearsay and the people who made the comments can no longer be reached for further comment. https://www.the-sun.com/news/8353587/silvio-berlusconi-obituary-scandals-sex-parties-trials/ The "chemical poisoning" was with radioactive materials. https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/mariah-carey-sister-alison-lawsuit-172802799.html Lawsuit filed in 2020, Alison was around 60 years old at the time.

I believe you, Nehor & Calm. Thanks for taking the time to respond to me and inform me about Tim Ballard.

I'm torn about this topic, not Utah LDS Satanic stuff specifically (Calm provided a lot of good material in another thread debunking it, in addition to the material in this thread), but Satanic child abuse stuff generally. Off the top of my head I can think of at least three videos that provide very good evidence but the subject matter is very intense and it's sick and not SFW so I don't think I should share any of it on this forum. I suppose I could just say that if anyone wants to judge what I think are sources that support the idea that there is a secret industry that uses children for terrible reasons and harvests organs and stuff then PM me. One of the videos that comes to my mind was so dark and disturbing I've literally never shared it with anyone else since watching it. I feel like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place anytime it comes to child abuse. If anything is done other than mocking people who believe in it, then the thread would get really dark really quickly. And definitely wouldn't be appropriate for most people to casually read through. Cheers everyone, and happy Halloween.

Yes I was just commenting on the accessibility of the claims. It doesn't matter how I approach it. I'm considering how Tim Ballard may have approached it, because it is a very extreme belief. I tend to remain neutral until I thoroughly research something, and I haven't researched SRA. I believe all of the evidence you've shared. By the way, the moon landing was faked. I will say that I 100% believe in MK Ultra and Project Monarch. I also believe in the 13 great families, the ones who loan money to sovereign nations and profit from both sides of war. And I believe that those families and those who are in their inner circle worship Satan. So, while it may not be happening in Utah, I do believe that SRA is a thing that does happen. Yeah, I appreciate you taking time to provide a lot of detailed evidence. I don't think attention paid to SRA "pulls resources away from stopping actual abuse or make it harder for people to believe actual claims of children." Especially not in "casual conversation" with people who have nothing to do (presumably) with any side of the child abuse/trafficking industry. Tim Ballard going on about it may impact "resources" but I doubt it, unless he's running a team and shifting his company's focus to this very niche, tenuous, alleged, subset of child abuse. I don't know what's going through Tim's mind. I still lean towards the "he's on drugs" explanation. But honestly he might've just gone crazy being in the child trafficking industry for as long as he has. I can't imagine what he's seen during his career. For all of his faults, Tim Ballard doesn't strike me as a man who worships money, I don't know if I can see Tim having a financial motivation to speak crazy talk.