theplains

I don't believe the following teachings about Jesus becoming God. There is some truth in the Book of Mormon and some of the Doctrine and Covenants however. "As far as man is concerned, all things center in Christ. He is the Firstborn of the Father. By obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state" (Religion 430 and 431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, chapter 4). "He, the lowly babe of Bethlehem who two millennia ago walked the dusty roads of the Holy Land, became the Lord Omnipotent" (former President Gordon B. Hinckley, "We Testify of Jesus Christ, March 2008 Liahona). Becoming God means you are not God from all eternity to all eternity. Mosiah 3:5 says Jesus is "the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity". Joseph Smith would eventually diverge from this. "In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see". Even other LDS scriptures speak of the eternal nature of God (Moroni 7:22; Doctrine and Covenants 20:17; 39:1; 61:1; and 76:4).

I provided scriptures showing the existence of one God, but you didn't provide scriptures to support your position.

Do you believe Jesus became a God like the LDS seminary manual teaches?

As Boyd K. Packer once said, "It isn't a question of who said it or when; the question is whether it is true". https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/boyd-k-packer/follow-rule/

Joseph Smith taught God is not God from all eternity. Heavenly Father can be considered "eternal" in the sense that he always existed as an eternal, uncreated intelligence before he becomes a spirit child of his heavenly parents (Jesus' grandparents) and then becomes a God.

Here are a few different cases of "god" and "God" for you to consider. With dominion comes worship by his own spirit children that he will have. All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become like him—a god. He has said, "Behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39). 1997 Gospel Principles "Go and read the vision in [Doctrine and Covenants 76]. There is clearly illustrated glory upon glory—one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and a glory of the stars; and as one star differeth from another star in glory, even so do they of the telestial world differ in glory, and every man who reigns in celestial glory is a God to his dominions". Teachings of Joseph Smith

Paul mentions two main sets – the earthly and the heavenly. Within the heavenly (the celestial) set, he identifies three subsets (the sun, the moon, and the stars). "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another" (1 Corithians 15:40, KJV). The ESV words it a little differently ("There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another"). What earthly bodies is this a reference to? Since you believe the glory of the moon is terrestrial, what other terrestrial bodies have the glory of the moon? Is the earth a celestial (heavenly) or terrestrial (earthly) body according to Paul? 1 Corinthians 15:41 says, "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory". In the LDS version of the celestial kingdom with its three levels, how many glories are there? Do you believe Doctrine and Covenants 129:1-3, that all beings in heaven (angels who are resurrected and the spirits of just men made perfect) have the same glory as God as the passage says? The following is taught by Joseph Smith, chapter 18 Those who inherit the celestial kingdom are "they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all". But all in the LDS celestial kingdom don't have the glory of God because they are not exalted. This aspect of "same glory" is taught elsewhere in the chapter: "Go and read the vision in [Doctrine and Covenants 76]. There is clearly illustrated glory upon glory—one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and a glory of the stars; and as one star differeth from another star in glory, even so do they of the telestial world differ in glory, and every man who reigns in celestial glory is a God to his dominions". "… [The righteous who have died] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before". There is one glory of the sun, not three. In 1 Corinthians, Paul does not say "and the glory of the telestial is another", but I understand Joseph Smith added it to his translation. Regarding the stars, do you believe all stars have the same glory or are there many glories because stars differ in the size, brightness, and energy? Why is there only one glory of the moon, without differences like the stars? Do all people with the "glory of the moon" have the same glory? I saw the thread going back to 2012. It has no bearing on what Paul is teaching. There was a quote from a website which said, "We know now that there are three worlds: the telestial, in which we live; the celestial, to which we aspire; and in between them another world, called the terrestrial. It is of neither the celestial nor the telestial". http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=58 That link is not active so I cannot determine who said it or when. I didn't find any relevant song by "The Telestials of Nashville" to indicate some doctrinal teaching. I tried to load up their webpage (telestials.com) but nothing displayed. I hadn't checked before. Now I see that Joseph Smith changed 1 Corinthians 15:40 to "Also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial, and bodies telestial; but the glory of the celestial, one; and the terrestrial, another; and the telestial, another". If you appeal to a song by "The Telestials", who don't speak for all the LDS and non-LDS churches, then you'll have to contend with LDS hymns that are for the LDS Church. 1] If You Could Hie to Kolob This one speaks of a place where Gods began to be (formed); an infinite regress of Gods. I'm not surprised as it follows the teachings of other LDS leaders too. Stanza 1 reads as follows: If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye, And then continue onward With that same speed to fly, Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity, Find out the generation Where Gods began to be? 2] Praise to the Man Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah! Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer. Blessed to open the last dispensation, Kings shall extol him, and nations revere. Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven! Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain. Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again. We don't praise anyone in heaven other than God. We don't sing about Peter, Paul, etc. Also, there is no scripture to teach that Joseph Smith has already ascended to heaven (like Roman Catholicism's Mary) and is mingling with Gods. We don't need Peter or Paul to plan for his brethren from heaven. Kings will only extol and revere Jesus Christ, not Joseph Smith. I see. You are applying it from a human perspective instead of God's perspective. "How they appear to us" when viewed from earth is like comparing an orange (what we see) with an apple (with what God sees) instead of comparing apples to apples (heavenly bodies like the sun, moon, planets, and stars to each other) as God sees them. With our telescopes we see "how stars appear to us" – they are larger and brighter than the sun. You limit "how they appear to us" to only what we can see with our naked eye, without the use of technology to see further and more. But Paul does not consider the earth to be celestial or telestial. The earth is terrestrial, an earthly body. There are several glories for earthly bodies (humans, plants, animals, etc). Joseph Smith did not understand that. Mars and Venus are other heavenly bodies but not stars. In similar fashion to celestial bodies and glory, Joseph Smith also misunderstood the aspect of "how time is reckoned" as shown in the Pearl of Great Price. Abraham 3:16 says Kolob is the greatest of the stars because it is nearest unto God. "And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it; And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest." (Abraham 3:2-3). These two verses are tricky. The stars are the governing ones but only Kolob governs the objects that are of the same order as the Earth. Maybe stars only govern objects that are not of the same order as Earth. "And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord's time, according to the reckoning of Kolob" (Abraham 3:4). If Kolob is revolving around the throne of God, then I would say the throne of God (of some planet or star) is the governing body over all the other stars and planets. Does a star even have seasons like Earth (winter, spring, summer, fall)? "And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years" (Abraham 3:5). The first part of this verse says the moon's reckoning is greater than the Earth's. The last part of the verse seems to reverse that position. Which is it? What moves in order more slow than what? Verse 7 again says the reckoning time of the moon is larger than the earth ("Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest"). Seeing that the moon is above the Earth sometimes and below the Earth at other times, how is its time of reckoning considered more than the Earth in the above two passages? After all, depending on the moon's position, it is sometimes farther from Kolob and other times closer to Kolob than Earth. "And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still" (Abraham 3:8). "And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord's time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest" (Abraham 3:9). Does Mercury or Neptune have a longer reckoning of time than the Earth? Before you answer than, consider the earlier statements of the Earth and the moon and consider all their positions relative to each other during their revolution around our Sun and supposedly Kolob. Seems that Joseph Smith mistakenly thought, despite planetary orbits, they are always the same distance away from Kolob relative to each other. Why is Kolob not specifically mentioned as governing the stars but is only mentioned as governing planets? Earth is of the order of a planet, not a star. I wonder too if the moon is of the same order as the earth since it [the moon] revolves around the earth and not earth revolving around the moon. "And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God" (Abraham 3:10). Considering that the Earth revolves around the Sun and the Sun supposedly revolves around Kolob, is the Earth or the Sun always closest to or farthest from Kolob? And what of the set time of all the other stars? Does their orbit always mean their "set time" is always the same even though they are farther or closer to Kolob? So, planetary distances vary, and some planets do get closer to or farther from the Sun than others at different times in their orbits. This means their "set times" or "times of reckoning" is not always the same. Joseph Smith's incorrect assumption depends on these distances remaining the same. You forget that the blessing upon the first born is not the priesthood. God designated the tribe of Levi to take the place of all the firstborn males in Israel for service at the tabernacle and later in the temple (Numbers 3:11–13, 8:16–18). But the LDS Church gives worthy members of Ephraim rights to serve in their temples. Here are some LDS teachings which seem to connect the birthright with the priesthood: Doctrine and Covenants 64:35–36. "The rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim" Ephraim was a grandson of the Old Testament prophet Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel. Ephraim was given the birthright blessing (see Genesis 48:20). The phrase "blood of Ephraim" (D&C 64:36) refers to those who (1) are literal descendants of Ephraim, as well as (2) those who are not of the house of Israel but who, through baptism into the restored Church, are adopted into the tribe of Ephraim. Only those who are believing and obedient members of the Church are considered to be of the blood of Ephraim. The rebellious, though they may be literal descendants of Ephraim, will not receive an inheritance in Zion (see D&C 64:35–36). President Joseph Fielding Smith (1876–1972) explained the importance of Ephraim's birthright and the responsibility Ephraim's descendants have to bless others in the latter days: "It is essential in this dispensation that Ephraim stand in his place at the head, exercising the birthright in Israel which was given to him by direct revelation. Therefore, Ephraim must be gathered first to prepare the way, through the gospel and the priesthood, for the rest of the tribes of Israel when the time comes for them to be gathered to Zion" (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie [1956], 3:252). Religion 324-325 - Doctrines and Covenants Student Manual These are pretty unusual doctrines – being baptized into the LDS Church somehow makes you of the blood of Ephraim. And those declared to be in the lineage of Manasseh by a patriarchal blessing are not considered to be of the blood of Manasseh even if they are believing and obedient. Instead, the Manassites are classified to be of the blood of Ephraim. This is not the only time the LDS Church has been preoccupied with the blood issue. Another seminary manual (Religion 430 and 431 – Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual) teaches that the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile is different that upon a literal descendant of Abraham. "It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing the intellect with present knowledge, of a man who is of the literal seed of Abraham, than one that is a Gentile, though it may not have half as much visible effect upon the body; for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of intelligence; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence" (Smith, Teachings, 149–50)." Again, these blood-related doctrines are unscriptural. Let's get back to our present topic after I briefly digressed. But, as you know, the right of the first born (the birthright blessing) that originally belonged to Reuben does not pertain to holding the priesthood. 1 Chronicles 5 says the birthright was taken from Reuben and given to the sons of Joseph. In Jacob's blessing of Ephraim over Manasseh, there is no specific mention of Manasseh losing the birthright. While Ephraim received a significant blessing and was set before Manasseh, the pre-eminence in terms of leadership and the lineage of kingship was given to Judah. Neither of these two birthright owners held the priesthood in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Jesus in the lineage of Judah becomes our high priest. Unfortunately that's the way the LDS Church has interpreted things for Ephraim. And the blessing upon Jacob which "have [past tense] prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors" (Genesis 49:26) did not pertain to the priesthood or to a specific land inheritance in the United States. Issachar's sons were Tola, Puah, Jashub, and Shimron (Genesis 46:13). Zebulun's sons were Sered, Elon, and Jahleel (Genesis 46:14). Who had the right of the firstborn in the family of Issachar and Zebulun? The firstborn right for the family of Jacob ends when Jacob dies. The firstborn right of Jacob does not override the first born rights of all the other families born to Jacob's other sons. For example, Ephraim does not have the right of the firstborn in the family of Zebulun. The blessing upon Judah is more widespread and not limited to only Judah's (the person) family ("The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes"). This indicates leadership and authority. This is shown in the Old Testament record (1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles). It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future. Inheriting the earth is in a general reference. It does not imply a specific land inheritance for Ephraim or Manasseh in the United States like Doctrine and Covenants refers to some place in Missouri as the land of Zion. Joseph Smith even taught all of America (North, Central, and South) is Zion, excluding Europe, Russia, etc. "The whole of America is Zion itself from north to south, and is described by the Prophets, who declare that it is the Zion where the mountain of the Lord should be, and that it should be in the center of the land" (April 1844 General Conference, History of the Church, 6:318–19.) https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1979/07/line-upon-line?lang=eng https://byustudies.byu.edu/online-book/history-of-the-church-volume-6/volume-6-chapter-15 But I'm not sure what he means by the "center of the land", where it is, or the location of the mountain of the Lord. All the seed of Abraham did not have a right to the priesthood in the Old Testament. The Levites were taken as God's firstborn. They held the priesthood until a change in priesthood came with the advent of Christ. Latter-day Saints still hold onto their need to have the Levitical Priesthood. "And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine" (Numbers 3:12). "And I have taken the Levites for all the firstborn of the children of Israel" (Numbers 8:18). Your understanding of Deuteronomy 33:17 is not correct. I explained this in part 1 of our other ongoing thread topic "Ephraim, the birthright, and the gathering", posted on October 10. Regarding your quote in the Pearl of Great Price: "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee above measure, and make thy name great among all nations, and thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and Priesthood unto all nations" (Abraham 2:9). This is not a specific reference to Ephraim. Only the Levites were taken by God and held the priesthood. With Christ came a change in priesthood. Ephraim only had the right of the first born for the immediate family of Jacob. This does not extend to the family of Issachar and Zebulun for example. The right of Ephraim to the Melchizedek Priesthood is not explicitly stated in a single verse of scripture. The verses in Doctrine and Covenants 86:8-11 refer to the continuation of the priesthood through the lineage of the fathers, but Ephraim is not mentioned by name, neither what priesthood this is. The connection to Ephraim is more of an interpretive understanding within Latter-day Saint teachings. Members of the tribe of Judah, Ephraim, or Manasseh did not hold the Levitical priesthood. But I understand that the LDS Church extends that priesthood to whoever is declared of the lineage of Jacob through a patriarchal blessing. Bill Gates is not a Christian leader who speaks for all of Christianity. Teachers at General Conference and what is printed in LDS Church manuals and books speak for the LDS Church though. For the September 23 prophecy, I think I found it mentioned here. https://thebiblebrief.com/september-23rd-and-no-rapture-what-now/ I'm not sure who this guy is. I don't have any doctrine that someone other than God knows the day or hour of His return or what some refer to as the rapture. Speculating about the return of Christ became coined as the "Great Disappointment" when it didn't occur on October 22, 1844. It's regrettable that many sold their properties and quit their jobs to wait for something that never happened. I also find it regrettable that all Latter-day Saints will be disappointed (maybe we'll call it the "Great Disappointment 2") when a temple and city of New Jerusalem will not be built in Missouri when the city of Independence currently stands there. "Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house" (Doctrine and Covenants 84:4-5) It's also unfortunate that the prophecy for the Saints to recapture their land of inheritance by force was proven to be false. See Doctrine and Covenants 101:44-58; 103:11-36. The prophecy of some Moses-like figure will fail too (103:16). D&C 103:15–20. The Lord's People Will Redeem Zion through His Power Doctrine and Covenants 103:15–20 clearly teaches that Zion will not be redeemed by human strength alone. The Lord said that the redemption of modern Zion will resemble the deliverance of ancient Israel from Egypt (see vv. 18–20). The biblical account describes how the Lord attended Israel in a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. In 1873 Elder Orson Pratt taught that the return to Jackson County may be accompanied by similar manifestations: "I expect that when the Lord leads forth his people to build up the city of Zion, his presence will be visible. When we speak of the presence of the Lord we speak of an exhibition of power.... "We shall go back to Jackson County. Not that all this people will leave these mountains, or all be gathered together in a camp, but when we go back there will be a very large organization consisting of thousands, and tens of thousands, and they will march forward, the glory of God overshadowing their camp by day in the form of a cloud, and a pillar of flaming fire by night, the Lord's voice being uttered forth before his army. Such a period will come in the history of this people. . . . And his people will go forth and build up Zion according to celestial law. "Will not this produce terror upon all the nations of the earth? Will not armies of this description, though they may not be as numerous as the armies of the world, cause a terror to fall upon the nations? The Lord says the banners of Zion shall be terrible. . . . "The man like unto Moses in the Church is the President of the Church." (Evidences and Reconciliations, 1:197.) Religion 324 and 325 – Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual. Ok. But for all that you consider speculative, official, or unofficial, you need to apply the same principle – "It isn't a question of who said it or when; the question is whether it is true" (Boyd K. Packer). Personally, speculative opinions should be laid by the wayside. There's also this admonition in Gospel Principles: "Teach only what is supported by the scriptures, the words of latter-day prophets and apostles, and the Holy Spirit". You find these LDS teachings in the sources I mention. The admonition and the statement by Boyd K. Packer do not mean Latter-day Saints should ignore what early LDS prophets and apostles have taught. You focus too much on the word "official". You should focus more on what Boyd K. Packer said – "It isn't a question of who said it or when; the question is whether it is true". Please don't strain at a gnat but swallow the camel. Each teaching must be considered as being either true or false. If false, then it leads people astray if they believe it. And as Gospel Principles says, "Teach only what is supported by the scriptures, the words of latter-day prophets and apostles, and the Holy Spirit". The LDS Church now interprets the Trinity as three separate Gods in the Godhead. And you need to consider that the LDS Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ were not part of the Godhead before they became Gods. Heavenly Father was the only member of the Godhead for our Earth when he became a God and created it. The Lectures on Faith (#5) once taught there were only two members in the Godhead. "There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man". Questions - Section V 3. Q. How many personages are there in the Godhead? A. Two: the Father and the Son (Lecture 5:1). See pages 48-49. https://ia601400.us.archive.org/8/items/LecturesOnFaith/lectures_on_faith.pdf And add what Gospel Principles says ("Teach only what is supported by the scriptures, the words of latter-day prophets and apostles, and the Holy Spirit""). Everything printed by the LDS Church (past, present, and future) is done to disseminate what it believes is the truth. That's why you find the words of latter-day prophets and apostles recorded in them. Older publications, that contained what the LDS Church taught as true back then, were just following what today's Gospel Principles had admonished them. The same will apply for newer publications after the deaths of recent LDS Presidents. If one doesn't go along with what the latter-day prophets and apostles have taught, then it's a sign that one believes it is false or not yet convinced to be true. Teachings in specific church publications like "Doctrines of the Gospel …" and "Doctrines of Salvation" are official doctrines. And publications like "Gospel Principles" and "Gospel Fundamentals" are just that; principles and fundamentals to be accepted as truth. I suppose you also see extremes for the sheep ("My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand"). Revelation 20:4-6 does not have extremes. What do you believe is the second death for those not in the first resurrection? Whoa. In my last post, I mistakenly inserted a statement and attributed it to Bruce R. McConkie: "The afternoon of the first resurrection will not begin until the end of the millennium." Not sure where I got that from. Pardon me for that. I even checked the 1958 version but it wasn't there either. I'll try to dig some more. I'll retract what I said for now. I can confirm what you said about the 1966 edition and Doctrines of the Gospel Teachers Manual. I even did a Google search and didn't find any results for that bolded statement I made either. Damnation is not achieving exaltation: "For someone who has come to understand that, because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, exaltation is truly within reach, failing to obtain it constitutes damnation. Thus, the opposite of salvation is damnation, just like the opposite of success is failure" (May 2015 General Conference, If You Will Be Responsible). Mosiah 5:7 speaks of becoming the children of Christ through a covenant relationship. There is no involvement of Jesus with a woman is required for this type of offspring. John 1:12-13 speaks of becoming children of God by faith. Also see Galatians 3:26, 2 Corinthians 6:18, and Ephesians 1:5. Again, there is no involvement of God with a woman required for us to become offspring (children). Maybe you believe Paul was agreeing with the Greeks that people are offspring of their pagan gods; Zeus as God-king and Heavenly Father and Hera his wife, Goddess-queen, and Heavenly Mother. The Greeks believed in their pagan gods (Zeus and Hera). Paul is teaching them about the true God, not a heavenly mother. As shown above, we can be considered children (offspring) of God by faith. A heavenly mother is not required. Image as in idol (statue, picture?) and likeness (appears) [like] something or someone that/who should not be worshipped as God. Not sure how else to explain it. I think Adam before the fall reflected the image of God more than children born to Adam. For some reason, Seth was the only one specified in a different manner as compared to all the other children born to Adam. "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth". There you go with your extremes again. According to this D&C passage, Jesus did not go to the wicked and to the disobedient. But 1 Peter 3:18-20 says he did go to the disobedient. Maybe you believe Jesus went to the slightly disobedient but did not go to the very disobedient?

A seminary manual teaches Jesus reached some level of intelligence to rank him as a God. Another teaching by an LDS leader has him becoming a God too.

The LDS Father and Son became Gods so they are not eternally God (uppercase g).

The passages in Isaiah are clear enough. "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10). "Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" (Isaiah 44:6). "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:8). "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me" (Isaiah 45:5). "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:18). "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:21-22). "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me" (Isaiah 46:9).

Don't you believe the same about yourself? No. Define perfect. Are you a divine being (lower case) from all eternity to all eternity with the hope to become a Divine Being? For the Atonement. It's hard to grasp since Christ is fully God and fully man in his incarnation.

I attend a Baptist Christian church, also Pentecostal one from time to time. Our teachings about the eternal nature of God is primarily found in the Book of Isaiah.

Yes. But Jesus is both God and man. There never is a time when he is not God.

Does this include the terrestrial and telestial inhabitants or do you believe they are not included because they were unfaithful? Let's not forget about the apostasy which occurred in the LDS Church (D&C 52:1-6; 56:14-15; 64:30-36; 101:1-2,6,41; 103:1-14; 105:2-6,9). This resulted in the expulsion from various lands until they found relative safety in Utah. For context of what I mean about apostasy, see Jeremiah 2:19, 5:6, and Hosea 14:4 (ESV). "Your evil will chastise you, and your apostasy will reprove you. Know and see that it is evil and bitter for you to forsake the Lord your God; the fear of me is not in you, declares the Lord God of hosts". "Therefore a lion from the forest shall strike them down; a wolf from the desert shall devastate them. A leopard is watching their cities; everyone who goes out of them shall be torn in pieces, because their transgressions are many, their apostasies are great". "I will heal their apostasy; I will love them freely, for my anger has turned from them". This past apostasy pales in comparison to the deception that is coming in the future (Revelation 13 and 19), with the lying signs and wonders of the beast and false prophet to deceive those on the earth. They will even gather armies to fight against Christ in a great battle. According to what is recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 62:6 (given in 1831), the Lord promised to preserve the faithful in Missouri, the land of their inheritance ("Behold, I, the Lord, have brought you together that the promise might be fulfilled, that the faithful among you should be preserved and rejoice together in the land of Missouri. I, the Lord, promise the faithful and cannot lie"). Maybe the Mormon sect (the Community of Christ) sees itself as a fulfillment of this. There are many organized Christian groups all around the world with Christ as their head operating independently of each other. They don't need to form one large overarching institution to manage them if they are faithful in teaching the Word of God. Peter did not direct Paul where to go and Paul did not direct Peter where to go. The early disciples of Jesus established several organized groups and structures as Christianity began to spread in the first century. While they didn't form "denominations" like modern churches, they created communities with leadership roles and organizational patterns to guide believers. 1] Local House Churches Primary structure of the early Christian movement. Met in homes (e.g., Acts 2:46; Romans 16:5). Each city or region often had multiple small house churches. Gathered for teaching, prayer, fellowship, breaking of bread (communion), and worship. 2] The Jerusalem Church The first organized Christian community (Acts 2–6). Led by the apostles, with James (the brother of Jesus) emerging as a key leader (Acts 15). Served as the mother church for other Christian groups. Functioned as a kind of council or headquarters for early doctrinal decisions (e.g., the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15). 3] Leadership Roles Created The apostles and early disciples created several roles to organize and shepherd the growing communities: A] Apostles Witnesses to Jesus' resurrection and authoritative leaders.Traveled to spread the gospel and establish churches (e.g., Paul, Peter, John). B] Elders (Presbyters) Local leaders or overseers of churches. Shared teaching and governance responsibilities (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5). C] Bishops (Overseers) Sometimes synonymous with "elders" early on, later became a distinct role. Oversaw multiple churches in a region as the church grew (Philippians 1:1; 1 Timothy 3:1–7). D] Deacons Appointed to serve the physical and logistical needs of the church (Acts 6:1–6; 1 Timothy 3:8–13). Freed up the apostles to focus on teaching and prayer. 4] Missionary Teams & Networks Led by figures like Paul, Barnabas, Silas, and others. Planted churches across the Roman Empire (Asia Minor, Greece, etc.). Maintained letters and correspondence for instruction and correction (many of which became New Testament books). 5] Councils and Gatherings The Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) is the first example of organized decision-making for doctrinal issues. Set a model for later church councils. If I am not mistaken, I do not find these groups and structures in the Book of Mormon church after Christ supposedly appeared to them. After Christ's visit to the Nephites, the Book of Mormon doesn't provide a detailed breakdown of church leadership roles like elders and high priests in the immediate chapters following His visit in 3 Nephi. The people were instructed to meet together often to pray, partake of the sacrament, and support one another in their faith (3 Nephi 18:22), but nothing about the Nephite temples. Moroni 3-6, likely set around A.D. 400 finally includes instructions on how priests and teachers were ordained. Bishops, high priests, prophets, and apostles are not mentioned either. The immediacy of The Great Commission, as we see in the Bible to make disciples of all nations, is absent from the Book of Mormon. There, the immediate command by Jesus to preach the gospel is more focused on the people in the land at that time, as seen in 3 Nephi 28:23, where the disciples go forth among all the people of Nephi in their land. The broader mission to the rest of the world, as mentioned in 3 Nephi 28:29, is described as a future event. But its focus is on the special three Nephite disciples ministering to the scattered Israelite tribes and other tongues and peoples throughout the world (the Gentiles). Apparently the church was still destroyed with all this evangelism, including the addition of the apostle John, who is taught to have remained on earth to bring souls to God (Doctrine and Covenants 7:1-3). Add to this no historical or extra scriptural evidence for this significant evangelism by these four people. Supposedly they were keeping their identity and preaching a secret. We are created in the image of God but we don't have a divine nature in the sense that we are a God (a god). I don't believe men and women can be formed into Gods but I understand this is an LDS doctrine. "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10). "Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" (Isaiah 44:6). "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:8). "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me" (Isaiah 45:5). "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:18). "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:21-22). "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me" (Isaiah 46:9). "The head God brought forth the Gods in the grand council… The head God called to-gether the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world. The grand counsellors sat at the head in yonder heavens, and contemplated the creation of the worlds which were created at that time" (King Follett Discourse). "…the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was…" (Doctrine and Covenants 121:32). "In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5). https://scriptures.byu.edu/jod/pdf/JoD06/JoD06_0005.pdf Are you one of these Gods (i.e. gods) that were at this grand council? Does "head God" mean he chaired this grand council or that it mean the highest and greatest of all the Gods in eternity past? Do you believe all the church's teachings on the plurality of Gods and specifically what Brigham Young taught? ("How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through"). The LDS teaching that Jesus is the first spirit child born to heavenly parents who became a God in his pre-mortal life is not found in any scripture. You asked for CFRs for official LDS Church teachings of what I claim to understand of LDS theology. I'll provide some here. I'm pretty sure it will cover all your other CFRs. You claim you want official teachings, but you are quick to discount what the LDS Church has taught in the past (through General Conferences, sermons by LDS leaders in the past and present, and books written by former leaders and published by the church's publication arm – Deseret). I suspect they are not found in more recent publications because the LDS Church has de-emphasized them or they were deemed to be false and leading members astray. You can decide for yourself. But Mormonism is rather a large puzzle, comprising not one piece that encompasses all its teachings, but many pieces. Your use of the word "official" is too narrow, maybe even limiting yourself to the past 20 years. If you narrow yourself down to a limited time frame, you could even possibly reject the teaching of exaltation unless you find something recent that teaches that you can become a God and have spirit children of your own. I don't think past teachings were classified as being official or unofficial but rather as being true or false. So I'll try to give you some of the smaller pieces to reveal how I understand the LDS Church. Maybe they are all false and the LDS Church leaders were leading all their members astray all during that time. 1] The doctrine of a Heavenly Mother. I would say there is more than one wife for the LDS version of Heavenly Father because of his polygamy (D&C 132:30-31). Later in verses 61-63, it is said that the Law of the Priesthood permitted certain men to marry ten virgins to multiply and replenish the earth and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds. The work of the Father is continued in them for that is the work that Heavenly Father himself engaged with all his wives. 2] The teaching by Joseph Smith that God the Father had a father before him. 3] The unscriptural teaching that Jesus was the first spirit child born of heavenly parents who became a God in his pre-mortal life. 4] Joseph Smith's teaching in the plurality of Gods and that God had a father. 5] Former LDS Presidency member George Q. Cannon's teaching in Gospel Truths, volume 1. Here is the full quote. RACE OF GODS REDEEMED. It was necessary that a probation should be given to man. The courts of heaven were thronged with spirits that desired tabernacles. They wanted to come and obtain fleshly tabernacles as their Father had done. Their progenitors, the race of Gods with whom they associated and from whom they have descended, had had the privilege of coming on earthly probations and receiving tabernacles, which by obedience they had been able to redeem. Hence, I say, the courts of heaven were thronged with spirits anxious to take upon themselves tabernacles of flesh, agreeing to come forth and be tested and tried in order that they might receive exaltation (Gospel Truth, volume 1, chapter 2, page 25). 6] The church's teachings throughout their early history that Heavenly Father is an exalted man. 7] That our Earth's inhabitants are passing through their progression to Godhood as countless other worlds have already entered into their exaltation. And this is just for Heavenly Father's realm, excluding the realms of all the other beings who became God before him. Unless you believe Heavenly Father is greater than Jesus's Grandfather God. LORD HAS CREATED MANY EARTHS. The Lord never created anything for nothing, nor out of nothing. Everything has a place and was created for a purpose. Man was not created to be destroyed. This work has been going on forever. There never was a time when there was not an earth; never a time when there were not people on it, for that is the work of the Lord, and the heavens are innumerable, and so are the earths that have passed away to their exaltation and glory. As they pass away others take their places. This is not the only world. Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1, Chapter 4, Our First and Second Estates. https://archive.org/stream/Doctrines-of-Salvation-volume-1-joseph-fielding-smith/JFSDoctrinesofSalvationv1_djvu.txt https://archive.org/details/Doctrines-of-Salvation-volume-1-joseph-fielding-smith https://ia800905.us.archive.org/34/items/Doctrines-of-Salvation-volume-1-joseph-fielding-smith/JFSDoctrinesofSalvationv1.pdf 8] Joseph Smith's teaching that God has not existed as God from all eternity to eternity. Gospel Principles has him climbing a ladder until he reaches the top. 9] Gospel Principles has the spirit children of Heavenly Father (of Earth) progressing to become Gods themselves, having spirit children of their own which will have the same relationship to them as they have to Heavenly Father. In other words, they will have the same relationship to you as you have with your Father. That is, they will worship you instead of their Grandfather. After all, you don't worship your GrandFather God because he did not create you. 10] Brigham Young's teaching that there never was a time when there were no Gods and worlds. 11] Joseph Fielding Smith's teaching in a plurality of past Gods. "We were begotten by our Father in heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father, and again He was begotten by a still more ancient father and so on from generation to generation". Doctrines of Salvation, 3-volume set https://archive.org/download/JFSDoctrinesOfSalvation/JFSDoctrinesofSalvationv1-3.pdf 12] Teaching by James Talmage that Heavenly Father (and by extension his wives) passed through death, resurrection, and their exaltation. "It would appear unnecessary to cite at greater length in substantiating our affirmation that Jesus Christ was God even before He assumed a body of flesh. During that antemortal period there was essential difference between the Father and the Son, in that the former had already passed through the experiences of mortal life, including death and resurrection, and was therefore a Being possessed of a perfect, immortalized body of flesh and bones, while the Son was yet unembodied. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/jesus-the-christ/chapter-4?lang=eng 13] The ultimate work of each God for each of his spirit children (past, present, and future) is found in Gospel Principles: "All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become like him—a god". Following what LDS leaders have taught in the past, I don't see that the LDS Heavenly Father (of our Earth) is the head God over his Father God (Jesus' Grandfather God to simplify things). Maybe by "head God" you are actually referring to the God who was chairing this grand council, but you never identify who these other exalted beings (the Gods) were which participated in the council before this particular Earth or other worlds were created. Unless you believe the "head God" means Heavenly Father of our Earth is greater than his Father God and his Grandfather God, and his Great Grandfather God, etc etc, going backwards into infinity. Which Gods before you have become kings and priests to our Earth's Heavenly Father? Are you referring to a teaching from a previous LDS leader who taught that other worlds created by our Earth's Heavenly Father were peopled by Him, had an Atonement already provided for them, were resurrected, and already entered their exaltation after Judgment Day happened on those worlds? I'm assuming you don't believe our Earth's Heavenly Father is head over his own Father and Mother God, right? I'm assuming you're speaking of only the realms belonging to our Earth's Heavenly Father. Ok. You're clearer now. You believe Earth's Heavenly Father advanced and we have the same privilege to advance like he did. How did this God advance to become the most advanced and intelligent being in existence? Is he more advanced and intelligent than his Father and Mother God before him? Us having eternal life does not mean we can become beings who are referred to as Eternal Gods because we are not Gods now, nor do we become Gods when he have eternal life. You believe that most, if not all, spirit children of heavenly parents will live eternally in one of God's mansions but they supposedly already existed from all eternity past before even being born to heavenly parents. We can have eternal life right now, before we die. "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:15). Those who don't have eternal life will perish. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10:28). Earlier you said, This means he didn't create his own laws so that he could advance by them. Likewise, we don't create our own laws so that, as you believe, we can advance to Godhood like Heavenly Father advanced to his Godhood. You said laws are eternal but these laws, following LDS theology, already existed long before Heavenly Father became a God. Some unknown God, whom the LDS cannot identify, created these laws. He did not need to advance to Godhood by his own laws. Or maybe you believe you can create your own laws which you know you can keep and then claim you are advanced and the most intelligent because you scored a perfect, 100% obedience to all of them. But then again, who atoned for the sins of Heavenly Mother and Father? Can you clear this up for me. Do you believe Heavenly Father of our Earth is greater than all the beings of all the other spheres which exist, who became Gods before he became a God? Or do you believe that Heavenly Father is greater than only all his spirit children, in his sphere, who believe they will become Gods? There's a difference between how and when the LDS Heavenly Father and Mother "became Gods" versus when, after they were resurrected and exalted to Godhood, they "came to be Gods in relation to us" by becoming heavenly parents of spirit children. See the first few lines of the article and a few paragraphs afterwards: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/what-does-it-mean-to-be-the-offspring-of-god.html At the moment of salvation, we become God's children. Our broken relationship with the Creator of our souls is made right by placing faith in Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. We are God's offspring because we are made in His Image. The Stoic philosophers believed that human beings are God's offspring; however, despite believing that humanity was God's offspring, the Stoics did not believe in the God of the Bible. When the Stoic philosopher Aratus wrote of "We are his offspring," Aratus was referring to the Greek God, Zeus — not the true God of the Bible (Ibid.). After Paul makes reference to Aratus' quote, he connects it with the true God of the Bible. Paul says, "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone — an image made by human design and skill" (Acts 17:29). Paul was telling the philosophers that mankind is indeed the offspring of God because we are created by Him; however, mankind was not created by a mute idol in the center of Athens. To worship an idol was to sin against the true God of Heaven. Before they became Gods on some other world, did the man and woman (who later became the heavenly parents of Earth) marry and have literal physical children on that world? I focus primarily on the covenant sons of God (the heirs, the adopted ones). In LDS theology, this would mean that those who are not exalted (those who don't become Gods) are not born of God – they are not the sons of God by adoption (Romans 8:14-17). I'd like to correct your choice of words. Instead, you should say, "All covenant children of God are heirs". In LDS theology, this is only for those who become Gods. I re-asked my question about Revelation 3:12 in my response to part 1 so I'll address the passages in Isaiah here. "And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me" (Isaiah 49:23). "The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the Lord, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel" (Isaiah 60:14). This is a form of giving honor, not worship like God receives. There are many other passages in the scripture where humans bow down to humans, but this is not "worship" as we ascribe to God. One prominent one, specifically using "worship", is in the New Testament. "And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him". This verse describes Cornelius bowing down to Peter. However, Peter quickly corrects him, emphasizing that he is just a man and not to be worshipped. This highlights the importance of worship being directed to God rather than humans. Another instance in the New Testament where someone bows down to another person is in the Book of Revelation. In Revelation 22:8-9, John, overwhelmed by the visions he has seen, falls down to worship the angel. However, the angel quickly corrects him, saying that he is a fellow servant and that worship should be directed to God alone. In the Bible, bowing down to others as a sign of respect, greeting, pleading, or desperation (some examples: Genesis 18:2; Genesis 33:3; 1 Samuel 24:8; Mark 5:22; Matthew 18:26; John 11:32), rather than worship. See Gospel Truths, by George Q. Cannon, on page 135: "The worship of the true God has been revealed to us. He has revealed Himself in our day. Mortal men have beheld the Eternal Father and the Redeemer, Jesus. And we know that they live. We know also that our Father in heaven should be the object of our worship. He will not have any divided worship. We are commanded to worship Him, and Him only". Yes, but in the context of LDS theology, this is in his own realm. The LDS Heavenly Father of our Earth did not create worlds without number in the realm of his Father or any of the beings who became Gods before the LDS Heavenly Father of our Earth was born to his heavenly parents. You'll understand what I mean when you stop looking at only the realm you live in. Joseph Smith and other LDS leaders have taught about Gods before Heavenly Father of our Earth. The Prophet says: "If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that he had a Father also." Then he asks: "Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son?" "Evidently his Father passed through a period of mortality even as he passed through mortality, and as we all are doing. Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father, until we come to a stop where we cannot go further, because of our limited capacity to understand ". Joseph Fielding Smith Doctrines of Salvation, 3-volume set https://archive.org/download/JFSDoctrinesOfSalvation/JFSDoctrinesofSalvationv1-3.pdf "We were begotten by our Father in heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father, and again He was begotten by a still more ancient father and so on from generation to generation" (page 132). Orson Pratt, The Seer https://ia904606.us.archive.org/29/items/seereditedbyorso01unse/seereditedbyorso01unse_bw.pdf "He came here, was born, had a father and mother like you have. Well, who was his father? Why God was His father; and who was God's father? Why God had a father like you and I have. Now, with this information children can begin to understand something about their Heavenly Father. They can see that if Jesus is His Son, and we are His sons and daughters, that He must be the Son of some other personage, for He could not beget Himself, but must have a father even as He is our Father". Gospel Truths, volume 1, George Q. Cannon, page 128. I don't know if they all split into various sects. Paul was just saying not to form groups and label one person as the specific leader or head. Christ is the head of the church; it's not the Pope and it's not the President of the LDS Church. Both of these are assumed to be the only true church on Earth. I have spent the majority of my Christian life in the Catholic, Pentecostal, and Baptist branches of Christ's church. I would never claim one or the other was the only true church. Our motto was: In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. The Jesus of Islam is not God. The Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-day Adventists is Michael the Archangel. I have no unity with them. Paul heard about the divisions that were occurring in the Corinthian church. "For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you". These divisions would even occur in the early LDS Church with the appearance of its sects, holding some tenets of the larger LDS group and their Catholic and Protestant counterparts. I didn't understand your premise. I believe most of the biblically-based pastors in the Christian sects are inspired by the Holy Ghost to reveal teachings of the Bible and to lead their members by revelation when warranted. Do we add it to the Bible? No. Do we view it as closed canon? In one way yes – since we don't add to it. In another way no – in that we believe God still reveals his will to his people. Based on my reading of the Doctrine and Covenants, I don't see the signs and wonders and the power of the Holy Spirit working in the apostles of the LDS Church. You speak of revelation in the LDS Church but nothing has been revealed and recorded in canon since Doctrine and Covenants 138 back in 1918. There is Declaration #2 back in 1979 but it masks the true intent. The introduction (which is not part of the Declaration itself) says, "In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church". It should really say "to all worthy members of African-descent of the Church". This declaration was then presented to the Church for a sustaining vote. Why does the mouthpiece for God on Earth need to have a "revelation" to him voted upon? Did all of Peter or Paul's revelations need to be voted on? No. In the New Testament, the process of receiving and recognizing revelations was somewhat different from the formalized procedures you see in the LDS Church. The acceptance of these writings as scripture was more of a gradual process, influenced by their widespread use and recognition of their spiritual authority. The address to the General Conference on September 30 said, "President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it". But the original declaration from June 8 elaborated more on who was praying: "Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the Church who have preceded us that at some time, in God's eternal plan, all of our brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood, and witnessing the faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, we have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance. He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood". https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/od/2?lang=eng Again, it is not specific to worthy men who are of African-descent. It's a subtle masking of the history of the LDS Church's ban of certain races on Earth. Those not of the LDS faith were not aware of what the early LDS Church taught about why this ban went into place. See "The Way to Perfection" from Joseph Fielding Smith. To be honest with you, the LDS Church was under severe social pressure to change its policy of race. Out of convenience, a so-called "revelation" was needed to save face. The New Testament Church did not ban the priesthood to those of African-descent. Offspring in the sense of being created by God, not involving Heavenly Mother(s). Great. So non-LDS Christian pastors and laypersons don't need to add to the Bible since the faithful are prepared to receive His will for us. We don't need LDS high priests to come and preach a different God. Non-LDS Christians do not believe what some spirit supposedly told Joseph Smith back in 1820.

God promised that the descendants of Abraham would be even greater than Ephraim. Abraham would be the father of many nations (Genesis 17:4-6; 22:17). There is no scripture indicating those of Ephraim would determine the lineage of all other Israelites or be the primary tribe in the gathering of Israel. I see these teachings from Religion 430-431 – Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual: "Of the twelve tribes, the tribes of Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, will be gathered first and then direct the other tribes in their gathering (see JST, Genesis 48:5–11; Deuteronomy 33:16–17; D&C 133:30–39). We discussed this before. This assumes ALL of Ephraim and Manasseh are gathered first before they direct all other tribes in their gathering. The early disciples, in the Great Commission, were not directed to gather all the Israelites first before they were to begin their evangelism to the Gentiles. Those three scriptures the church manual provides don't symbolize either a physical gathering to a geographical location or a spiritual gathering to the church. The JST passage (Genesis 48) adds many verses that are not found in the KJV and they specifically refer to actions of Joseph, not to his two sons. Deuteronomy 33:17 says, "His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh". Some other translations have "gore" instead of "push" and "wild ox" instead of "unicorns". See https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/deu/33/17/t_bibles_186017 They tend to agree with the intent being made. See Strong's Lexicon for "push" in that verse. H5055/H5056 (gore or push) is also used in other cross-references. https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h5055/esv/wlc/0-1/ "Now Zedekiah son of Kenaanah had made iron horns and he declared, "This is what the LORD says: 'With these you will gore the Arameans until they are destroyed.'" (1 Kings 22:11) "Now Zedekiah son of Kenaanah had made iron horns, and he declared, "This is what the LORD says: 'With these you will gore the Arameans until they are destroyed.'" (2 Chronicles 18:10) And "Through you we push back our enemies; through your name we trample our foes" (Psalm 44:5). https://www.blueletterbible.org/niv/deu/33/17/p0/t_corr_186017 We find the same thing in Exodus 21:32,36: "If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned". "Or if it be known that the ox hath used to push in time past, and his owner hath not kept him in; he shall surely pay ox for ox; and the dead shall be his own". "Push" is a reference to gore. https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/exo/21/32/t_conc_71032 https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h5055/kjv/wlc/0-1/ https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/exo/21/36/t_conc_71036 https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h5056/kjv/wlc/0-1/ The passage is not teaching what the church believes. Doctrine and Covenants 133:30-39 does not single out only Ephraim (excluding all other tribes) from being the servants of the Lord. "It is essential in this dispensation that Ephraim stand in his place at the head, exercising the birthright in Israel which was given to him by direct revelation. Therefore, Ephraim must be gathered first to prepare the way, through the gospel and the priesthood, for the rest of the tribes of Israel when the time comes for them to be gathered to Zion". Ephraim's exercise of the birthright in the Old Testament has nothing to do with the priesthood. He did not hold the priesthood, neither did Reuben. Yes. We've discussed it before. Isaiah 11 deals with the root of Jesse, a descendant of Jesse. This is Christ. The LDS Church teaches some of the chapter refers to Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith does not spring forth out of Jesse. You speak of "figuring out who they are". The early disciples were not preoccupied with figuring out which people were literal Israelites and which were Gentiles. They were pre-occupied with evangelism, not working to inform people that they were of a certain lineage. The same manual mentioned above (Religion 430-431 – Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual) places great significance on Ephraim and seemingly excludes the contribution or importance of Manasseh. "The great majority of those who become members of the Church are literal descendants of Abraham through Ephraim, son of Joseph. Those who are not literal descendants of Abraham and Israel must become such, and when they are baptized and confirmed they are grafted into the tree and are entitled to all the rights and privileges as heirs" (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:245–46)". "The great majority of those who have come into the Church are Ephraimites. It is the exception to find one of any other tribe, unless it is of Manasseh. "It is Ephraim, today, who holds the priesthood. It is with Ephraim that the Lord has made covenant and has revealed the fulness of the everlasting gospel. It is Ephraim who is building temples and performing the ordinances in them for both the living and for the dead". I think this would explain why Ephraim and Manasseh need to be gathered first and then direct all the other tribes in their gathering (p.s. this is a reference to those of literal lineage, not those whose blood changes – see below). Receiving the Holy Ghost has a different effect upon those who are the literal seed of Abraham as opposed to those who are not. "… for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of intelligence; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence" (Smith, Teachings, 149–50). Maybe that is one of the benefits of the patriarchal blessing – a non-Israelite (Gentile) would be declared to really be of Abrahamic descent. Latter-day Saints fail to realize that the New Testament does not attribute salvific significance to the temple after Christ's Atonement. The focus of salvation moves away from the temple and toward the person of Christ. This is foreshadowed in Jesus' encounter with the Samaritan woman (John 4:20-23). And then we have the teaching in Hebrews 9 and 10; where people no longer need earthly high priests to make an offering for their owns sins and for the people. It's evident that the LDS temple evolved out of the Masonic Lodge. The early disciples did not need to recognize who they were (figure out what literal tribe they were from) in order to bring people into the church of Christ. I already explained this "push" earlier. It's really "gore", a negative connotation. You keep conflating the return of Israel to their land (Jeremiah 16) with the gathering of people, declared to be literal descendants of one of the twelve tribes via a patriarchal blessing, into Christ's church. The context is literal Israelites being gathered to their literal land. "Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers" (verses 14-15). Focus on the word "again". The first time was a literal gathering of the Israelites to a specific land. That is the context of the passage. The similar message is repeated in Jeremiah 23:7. The regathering of Israel and Judah back to their land is prophesied again in 30:2-3. You can't get any clearer than that. Unfortunately, you do the same thing as Jehovah's Witnesses do with their interpretation of Revelation 7:1-4. They take the 144,000 literally but the twelve named tribes as figurative. Latter-day Saints repeat the pattern for the two sticks in Ezekiel. Instead of accepting the biblical explanation (the sticks representing the house of Israel and the house of Judah being reunited back in their own land; sticks held by Ezekiel), they take it as two books (not a reunification and not held by Ezekiel) that would be written hundreds and thousands of years later. When we come into the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus, the "fishers of men" becomes a gathering into his church, but not to a specific land of inheritance. And these fishers were not initially or predominantly those of Ephraim or Manasseh. Jeremiah 16 is not about evangelism post-1830. See my earlier comments. I don't believe Christ's church was destroyed as Gospel Principles taught in an earlier edition. The current version removed that statement. The February 2005 New Era article "What Happened to Christ's Church?" does not use the word "destroyed". Instead, it says the church disappeared from the Americas by about 400 A.D. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2005/02/what-happened-to-christs-church?lang=eng I provided some comments earlier, but you seem focused on gathering Israel instead of gathering Israelites and Gentiles. I read your post. The right of the firstborn is not the priesthood. If it was, then Levi would not have it. Reuben had the right of the firstborn but he did not have any priesthood during the time he held it. The right of the firstborn had no bearing on whether Peter, Paul, etc. could preach the gospel or baptize. Ephraim had several sons. Only one of them held the right of the firstborn in Ephraim's immediate family. None of them had the priesthood. Each firstborn child born to each of Ephraim's sons had the right of the firstborn in their respective families. The second born son did not have the right of the firstborn unless it was forfeited in some way by the first. Despite what you think, all the worthy male descendants of Ephraim did not hold the priesthood. If I am correct, neither the Bible or Book of Mormon specifically identify any disciple who was of the tribe of Ephraim; the same for Doctrine and Covenants. I think Doctrine and Covenants 133:30-34 is often cited in the context of the gathering of Israel but those events of verses 30-34 happen in the future, after Christ returns (see verses 18-24). Yes. In the future. This is seen in Jeremiah 3. The house of Israel and the house of Judah were likened to sisters (verse 7). The northern kingdom was given a bill of divorce (verse 8). In the future, they will be reunited in their land. "In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers". A similar thing is taught in Ezekiel 37. "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land". Don't forget all the other nine tribes and all those who are not of the lineage of Abraham. Not all Gentiles are Israelites. You are free to believe an Israelite is a Gentile because he doesn't know his lineage and then stops being a Gentile when he learns of his lineage, but you are thinking in human terms. God knows if a person is a Gentile or an Israelite. We don't need brazen seas, bronze lavers, or earthly high priests. Christ tore the veil in the temple. We can enter the holiest of holies by the blood of Christ, not by passing through LDS temple veils and verbal passcodes. The veil in the Old Testament becomes Christ's flesh in the New. We are not purified by entering the brazen sea or bronze lavers. By the way, Old Testament priests did wash in a bronze laver before entering the tabernacle to minister (Exodus 30-18-21), but this is not the molten sea upon twelve oxen. And they were not washing themselves in proxy manner for dead or living people. The LDS Church does not currently recognize a royal priesthood of women. This is clearly taught in 1 Peter 2:5,9 and Revelation 1:6. The Law of Moses does not exist on earth before God gave it at Mount Sinai and afterwards. From a biblical perspective, the sacrificial practices before Sinai were not widespread among all the Israelites as they would later become under the Mosaic Law. The patriarchs, like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, did offer sacrifices, but these were more personal and familial rather than national. Regarding the Passover, it was indeed instituted as a one-time event in Egypt, but it became an annual observance for the Israelites to commemorate their deliverance from bondage. The formal system of sacrifices, as a national practice, was established with the Law given at Sinai. Before that, the instances of sacrifice were more individual and specific to certain events or commands from God. There is only passage in the Pearl of Great Price to indicate Adam and Eve were commanded to offer the firstlings of their flocks to the Lord (Moses 5:4-7). This does not align with a statue's depiction that used to reside (or maybe still does?) in the Visitors' Center on Temple Square showing them offering vegetables or fruits on an altar with a living lamb next to it. https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56085-temple-square-art-work/?do=findComment&comment=1209059315 No, I was just wondering if that statue still stands in the Visitor's Center. You figure if Adam and Eve's sacrifices were important, it would still be there, with the little lamb next to the altar. From what is recorded, the Lord did not command this fruit or vegetable offering by Adam and Eve. I don't believe Cain's offering was rejected because it was fruit. It could have been vegetables too. "Firstfruit offerings" does not mean only "fruit", as in apples or figs. If they were applying the same practice as today, the secrets in the temple ceremonies would not have been passed on to all their children if they were not temple worthy. We have a lot of sacred/not secret details of the Old Testament temple. After all the temples that were supposedly built and then destroyed in the flood, Noah does not build a temple afterward. There is no temple building recorded amongst the Jaredites either. As I mentioned earlier, the veil is Christ's flesh. It's not an LDS temple veil that people must pass through with secret phrases and handshakes. We discussed Revelation 3:9-12 before. "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". It doesn't say "temples of my God" or "cities of my God". Back on March 30, you said, How do believe the female members of the church of Philadelphia and other churches will be worshipped? Where will those of the synagogue of Satan be going so that they can worship before the feet of these others, whom you believe are exalted beings? Prophets and apostles function is various ways so I believe they exist in non-LDS churches. But I don't believe people exist today who exhibit the signs of an apostle as shown in the Book of Acts. "We are fellowcitizens with the saints and of the household of God and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone". The foundation has already been laid and the church of Christ has never been destroyed. "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ". But we don't specifically identify John Doe or Terry Smith as Apostle John Doe and Prophet Terry Smith. Not sure why the LDS Church would limit itself to only 15 apostles when 15 apostles were not appointed by Christ in the New Testament Church and 0 apostles were present in the churches that supposedly existed amongst the Nephites and Jaredites. END OF PART 1 - TO BE CONTINUED

And the LDS Christ was not God until he became a God in his pre-mortal life. This is what I also mentioned to ZealouslyStriving. Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, says, "As far as man is concerned, all things center in Christ. He is the Firstborn of the Father. By obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state". To simplify it, reaching some level of intelligence made the LDS Jesus a God.

Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, says, "As far as man is concerned, all things center in Christ. He is the Firstborn of the Father. By obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state". To simplify it, reaching some level of intelligence made the LDS Jesus a God.

LDS teachings that God is an exalted man (sorted): April 1971, New Era, People on other Worlds April 1971, Ensign, The King Follett Discourse May 1976, New Era, How to Gain a Testimony July 1979, Ensign, Line Upon Line February 1982, Ensign, I Have a Question January 1989, Ensign, The Restoration of Major Doctrines Through Joseph Smith February 2002, Ensign, The Origin of Man January 2005, Liahona, Strengthening the Family: Created in the Image of God, Male and Female October 2008, General Conference, God Loves and Helps all His Children 2008, Teachings of Presidents of the Church - Joseph Smith, chapter 2: God the Eternal Father February 2012, Liahona, Our Father in Heaven. God is eternally God from everlasting to everlasting. My belief in God is based on the following: "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10). "Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" (Isaiah 44:6). "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:8). "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me" (Isaiah 45:5). "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:18). "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:21-22). "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me" (Isaiah 46:9).

The second type is mentioned in Doctrine and Covenants 129:3 ("the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory"). Which type were you when you believe you lived as an eternal intelligence or when you became a child of heavenly parents and lived with them in heaven? What type are seraphim and cherubim? Where do you come up with a "select few" from the "many" that were resurrected in Matthew 27:51-53, 3 Nephi 23:9-10, and supposedly among all the scattered tribes (3 Nephi 16:1-3) at the time of the earthquake around Christ's death? Several LDS leaders have taught the morning of the first resurrection is still occurring. See below. This would contradict Doctrine and Covenants 138:57. A resurrection of elders is not mentioned there. Paul mentions only two bodies. "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another" (1 Corithians 15:40). Paul mentions the earthly and the heavenly. "As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly" (1 Corinthians 14:48). The sun, moon, and stars are the heavenly ones. They are the celestial objects. The earth is terrestrial. The word "celestial" comes from the Latin word caelestis, which means "heavenly" or "of the sky." The word "terrestrial" comes from the Latin word terrestris, meaning "of the earth" or "earthly." Here's the etymology in more detail: Latin terra = earth, land, or ground. Terrestris is derived from terra, meaning "of the earth", "on land", or "earthly". We don't hear about "telestial" until Joseph Smith mentions it in Doctrine and Covenants, but he errs in several ways. In verse 78, the moon is assigned a terrestrial (earthly) body instead of a celestial (heavenly) body. In verse 81, he regards the stars as telestial bodies with a glory lesser than the Moon. He leaves the Earth (terra, terrestrial in Paul's teaching) without a glory. I can understand his errors as he was only considering the brightness of the Moon as it appears in our sky and does not take into account that many stars (heavenly bodies) have a glory even greater than our Sun (a celestial body). And many planets (which he doesn't assign a glory to) are larger than the Moon. I'm assuming the LDS Jesus, like you, had a spirit body with arms, legs, a head, etc, but it wasn't flesh and bone. Or maybe it was? What kind of body did Jesus have before he first obtained a mortal body? A body of flesh and bone, arms, legs, head, etc to resemble his Father? Yes. We discussed this before. There is nothing that says Jacob blessed Ephraim with the birthright or priesthood over his entire family. The word "birthright" or "priesthood" is not even there. Yes, Jacob blesses Joseph's sons and gives Ephraim a blessing greater than Manasseh even though the latter is the firstborn. But Manasseh remains the firstborn for his respective family however. He even gains a greater land inheritance than Ephraim. Genesis 49:26 says, "The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren". But these blessings of Jacob that prevailed above the blessings of his progenitors had nothing to do with land in the United States. You still never show that priesthood comes with the birthright blessing to the entire lineage of Ephraim whether they are first born, second born, or third born. Reuben had the birthright of the first born but he had no priesthood. Levi would have the priesthood but he did not have the birthright of the first born. Ephraim would have the birthright even though he was the second born, and he wouldn't have the priesthood. Also, you never explain when you believe Ephraim or his descendants first exercise any type of priesthood. From what I know, Jeroboam (the son of Nebat, an Ephraimite) established pagan places of worship in Bethel and Dan, where he set up golden calves to prevent the people from going to Jerusalem in the southern kingdom to worship. This act led to idolatry and was condemned by prophets of the time. 1 Kings 12:31 says of Jeroboam, "And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi". I'll speculate he organized some Ephraimite priests in this false worship. You'll discover later that those coming forth in the morning of the first resurrection do not include those destined for the two lower divisions of the celestial kingdom. These two groups had not endured to the end to inherit eternal life. They are not the firstfruits according to several teachings I'll provide below. Only those in the highest division of the celestial kingdom are shown as coming forth in the morning of the first resurrection. I'll show this below using LDS Church teachings. As Boyd K. Packer once said, "It isn't a question of who said it or when; the question is whether it is true". https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/boyd-k-packer/follow-rule/ Put simply, doctrines are just faith-based beliefs that are spoken or printed without the caveat of them just being opinions or speculations. So, I would consider Gospel Principles, Gospel Truth volumes 1 and 2, The Way to Perfection, Doctrines of Salvation, Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, The Family – Proclamation to the World, Achieving A Celestial Marriage , Answers to Gospel Questions, General Conference talks, the Journal of Discourses, etc, etc, as LDS doctrine. They are either true and edifying or false and misleading. Doctrines = creeds = teachings = gospel principles = gospel fundamentals. Unless you believe that lies and false doctrines are contained in books entitled "Gospel Truth", "Gospel Principles", "Doctrines of the Gospel" etc. It's not difficult for me to find LDS doctrines in LDS books like "Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual", "Doctrines of Salvation", "Gospel Principles", "Gospel Fundamentals", etc. Maybe there are two camps: official (canonized) and unofficial church doctrine (teachings of church leaders). Both true in the LDS camp, right? I'll restate what Boyd K. Packer once said – "It isn't a question of who said it or when; the question is whether it is true". https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/boyd-k-packer/follow-rule/ If true, it edifies. If false, it misleads. Those in the first resurrection shall be priests of God and of Christ. Those in the second resurrection are harmed by the second death (Revelation 20:4-6). According to what it seems you believe, the very first of the resurrection would then be the gods (the priests and kings unto God). This I believe you also refer to as the morning of the first resurrection. Being resurrected second would then mean being in the afternoon of the first resurrection. Bruce R. McConkie taught the afternoon of the first resurrection doesn't begin until after the Millennium ends. The resurrection of the just is still in progress right now for those destined for eternal life (Godhood). "The first resurrection, the resurrection of the just, which is now in progress, began with the coming forth of Christ, our Lord, and of certain saints immediately following his resurrection (Matt. 27:52-53.) Those coming forth in this resurrection shall come forth to an inheritance of eternal life. This resurrection includes all the celestial and terrestrial beings from Adam to the Millennium. ... Those coming forth in the morning of this resurrection shall be the righteous, the saints of the Most High, those who have lived according to the celestial law. The afternoon of the first resurrection will not begin until the end of the millennium. Then the unrepentant heathen, the honorable men of the earth, who have been deceived by the craftiness of men, and who have not received the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it, shall come forth." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 640-641) He also taught the resurrected beings living on earth at the time (those who will become Gods) would be caught up to meet the Lord at his Second Coming: What is meant by the phrase "morning of the first resurrection"? One of the blessings pronounced upon those who are sealed in the temple for time and all eternity is the power to come forth "in the morning of the first resurrection." Elder McConkie explained: "Those being resurrected with celestial bodies, whose destiny is to inherit a celestial kingdom, will come forth in the morning of the first resurrection. Their graves shall be opened and they shall be caught up to meet the Lord at his Second Coming. They are Christ's, the firstfruits, and they shall descend with him to reign as kings and priests during the millennial era." (Mormon Doctrine, p. 640.) Later another trump will sound (see D&C 88:99): "This is the afternoon of the first resurrection; it takes place after our Lord has ushered in the millennium. Those coming forth at that time do so with terrestrial bodies and are thus destined to inherit a terrestrial glory in eternity." (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 640.) Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel - Teachers Manual - 2000 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel/chapter-32?lang=eng The initial part of the morning of the first resurrection would then correspond to those raised to Godhood (eternal life) in Doctrine and Covenants 138:12-17,51 (around Christ's resurrection). This also matches the LDS Church defines the firstfruits: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/firstfruits?lang=eng Those who accept the gospel and endure to the end in faithfulness are in a symbolic way the firstfruits, for they belong to God. They who shall first descend with Christ are the firstfruits, D&C 88:98 (I would add 96-98). This is the first trump. These are the Gods when you consider the seminary's teaching mention of Bruce R. McConkie. These Gods are members of the Church of the Firstborn (D&C 76:52-60). They had endured to the end. Joseph Fielding Smith also taught we are still in the morning of the first resurrection. It is only for those who will reign. The morning of the first resurrection extends until the end of the Millennial reign. The first resurrection is for those who will reign. "The righteous are those who shall be called forth in the morning of the first resurrection. They are Christ's, the first fruits, and it is these who shall have part in the resurrection of the just. ... The morning of the first resurrection is that period which includes the resurrection of our Lord and of those who were with him when he came forth from the grave and extends down to and includes the coming of our Lord to reign upon the earth a thousand years. This is the first resurrection, and after this will come the second resurrection, or the final resurrection, which will take place after the millennium" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:295-297). He doesn't teach about a third and fourth resurrection. "Those who were with him when he came forth from the grave" corresponds to those raised to Godhood (eternal life) in Doctrine and Covenants 138:12-17,51 (the first trump; D&C 88:98). I see no resurrection for those in the two lower divisions of the celestial kingdom happening in the morning of the first resurrection as they do not reign as priests and kings. But let me know if you see otherwise for these two lesser groups and where. Some examples of this damnation in the LDS case is a lack of eternal increase and not returning to live with Heavenly Father. I checked that post. You said the second trump is for the terrestrials. The third trump is for the telestials. But it doesn't align with the way Mosiah speaks about the second trump. You said, "Mosiah is just doing more of the same, with the ‘second trump' representing those who come forth in the end." But those who come forth in the end is the fourth trump. You identified them as the sons of perdition in that post mentioned above. Maybe the terrestials will go to the moon, believed to have a terrestrial glory. I believe all saved Christians will be in God’s kingdom. "He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son" (Colossians 1:13). Those in the two lower divisions of the celestial kingdom did not do all they were commanded to do (they fell short) so they did not become children of the covenant. In my January 2 post, I said "I think he is referring to us being offspring in a spiritual sense, of a living God and his argument is their use of statues in their worship, which cannot talk, see, or hear. The pagans understood "offspring" in the sexual case of literal reproduction for the Greek gods; like that which occurs between male and female. While Paul uses the term, he is not inferring the involvement of a heavenly mother or any type of procreation of a celestial nature". The Greek gods were pagan. Paul was not saying that one of these pagan gods was Heavenly Father and another was Heavenly Mother, or that God was married and having children in some celestial environment. That's about making an idol to worship. I think the latter means Seth reflected the image of Adam more than any of his [Adam's] children. I didn't see any exclusion from the unsaved that perished in the flood. Only eight were saved. What portion of those who died in the flood – the saved or the unsaved? Doctrine and Covenants 138:28 says, "And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding quickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient who had rejected the truth, to teach them"). According to this D&C passage, Jesus did not go to the wicked AND to the disobedient. But 1 Peter 3:18-20 says he did go to the disobedient.

Which doesn't describe the LDS Heavenly Father; a man who became a God.

Jesus is taught to have been a spirit who became a God in a pre-mortal life.

From all ages in eternity past to all ages in eternity future. This cannot be said of the LDS Heavenly Father; a man who became a God.

God is God before anyone worships Him and before He creates anything.

A God whom you don't worship.

Yes, as an eternal uncreated intelligence. He has a beginning as God when he becomes God, after he is born to his heavenly parents (Christ's grandparents) and then progressed to Godhood.