Why so much oppostion, disgust for polygamy?

[charity]

There are some problems in the thinking that is being shown here.

The question refers to polygamy as a practice revealed and commanded by God. This is not FLDS polygamy, or Muslim polygamy, and any random Tom, **** or Harry who thinks a harem would be fun.

Why does this make a difference? Because when God commands something there are blessings that go with faithful obedience to His command.

We see lots of flying accusations. Polygamy demeans women, and causes child abuse. Not when it is commanded by God, and those who pratice the principle are doing so as His faithful servants.

And in my opinion, when there are negative feelings about something that God commands, then the source of the feelings is the adversary.

[Jaybear]

Jaybear, thanks for you pov, but you are wrong, that is unless that is the person's focus, and like I said, if it is, then you are wrong and it will not be an issue for you.

It would be nice if you could explain why you think I am wrong.

Its my understanding that in 1800s, LDS men acquired multiple wives with the understanding that polygamy was essential to their exhalation to Godhood. More wives, meant more planets to rule as a God. How is that not about power. When this believe is shared by closed society, how does that not create an environment when eligible women become scarce commodities.

[Calm]

do you lds women mind to share the love of your husband with other women????

I don't look at it as sharing the love as my husband loves me because of who I am and what that means to him. It is sharing his time and energy and attention. I already do that.

Often a widow or widower will be reluctant to seek a new spouse because of a sense of betraying their loves, even if they are dead. Any decent therapist will point out to them that the second relationship does not have to change what was had with the first. The relationships are two different experiences. They don't have to turn their back on their first spouse in order to love the second as deeply and truely, though differently as they are different people.

If this can take place serially, why not in parallel?

While there are some men who lose interest in their wives and go looking for other women to fulfill this void, it is not a given that this has to happen if another relationship is started, that one love will disappear or diminish simply because another one is introduced. From reading journals of those involved in polygamy, there are even cases where it was expressed that love in one relationship was increased because of what was observed about the other relationship (kindness, etc.).

[pezp]

ok but you would have to see your husband loving (not more or less than you) annother woman...are you honestly confortable with that??

[pezp]

id like to have a direct straight to the point answer some time during this life..but some how that never happens...even qhen i ask things to the missionaries (which im really good friend with) but they never answer ehat i ask...the talk a lot of nice things but never really answer what i ask.

im not attaking anyone its just the way y feel

[Calm]

ok but you would have to see your husband loving (not more or less than you) annother woman...are you honestly confortable with that??

I don't know. I believe I am--I have never been uncomfortable with his expressions of affection and appreciation for other women, but that's something that I'd have to experience to know for sure.

[Scottie]

The question refers to polygamy as a practice revealed and commanded by God. This is not FLDS polygamy, or Muslim polygamy, and any random Tom, **** or Harry who thinks a harem would be fun.

If this is the case and the intent of the post, then you are correct. If polygamy was TRULY commanded by God, then yes, these should be no need for disgust. I'm still waiting to get an answer as to the intent of the original post.

We see lots of flying accusations.  Polygamy demeans women, and causes child abuse.  Not when it is commanded by God, and those who pratice the principle are doing so as His faithful servants.

I listed some problems that I see any polygamist community having. Do you know how polygamy that is commanded of God would deal with these issues? I honestly can't see any way around them.

[Tchild2]

Charity

Why does this make a difference? Because when God commands something there are blessings that go with faithful obedience to His command.

It truly is a shame that all the other world religions just can't understand that your religion is the one getting the right commandments from God. If they could, we would have peace on earth...and no coke sold in any grocery stores the world wide!

[charity]

Scottie, Polygamy, as commanded by God, would be the same as a monogamous marriage is today in the LDS church. People enter into a marriage, freely, out of love and a desire to form a family unit. They understand the true order of marriage, that the man is the head, but does nothing by force or coersion and his wife is his partner and counselor. They are dependent on each other for the highest blessings. One cannot attain the highest degree of glory without the other. They are counseled and taught to treat each other well. The temple attending members of the Church are asked in temple recommend interviews if everything in their family relationships is in tune with Gospel principles. (I don't remember the exact wording, even though I just had an interview to renew my recommend. Sorry. But that is close.) There is nothing in this relationship that subjugates women or demans them.

Children are brought into such a home, with loving parents who have the resources of the Church community to help care and teach them. There is no child abuse.

In a polygamous marriage, the same conditions would exist. Why do you see mistreatment of women and children a problem in this kind of system?

Please enlighten me. And remember. We are talking about polygamy commanded by God. Not a Muslim polygamy. . .

[charity]

Tchild2 wrote: "It truly is a shame that all the other world religions just can't understand that your religion is the one getting the right commandments from God. If they could, we would have peace on earth...and no coke sold in any grocery stores the world wide!"

You think you are being facetious. But we LDS are looking forward to the day when Jesus reigns on earth and there is peace.

But Coke? Horrors! I am a Pepsi person.

[pezp]

i have this picture in mind..imagine a husband with four wives...

husband: hi honeysss im home, id like to go to the cinema which of you four would like to come with me??? mabe the four but one of you has to stay with the kids...

wife 1: ok you four go then, i stay here and have dinner prepared fpr all of us enjoy the movie but remember...no kissing and hugging while im not there.

i know this is quit funny and awkward but i think this is what some of us talk about when we say poligamy gives women an inferior status or something like that.

[Scottie]

Scottie, Polygamy, as commanded by God, would be the same as a monogamous marriage is today in the LDS church. People enter into a marriage, freely, out of love and a desire to form a family unit. They understand the true order of marriage, that the man is the head, but does nothing by force or coersion and his wife is his partner and counselor. They are dependent on each other for the highest blessings. One cannot attain the highest degree of glory without the other. They are counseled and taught to treat each other well. The temple attending members of the Church are asked in temple recommend interviews if everything in their family relationships is in tune with Gospel principles. (I don't remember the exact wording, even though I just had an interview to renew my recommend. Sorry. But that is close.) There is nothing in this relationship that subjugates women or demans them.

Children are brought into such a home, with loving parents who have the resources of the Church community to help care and teach them. There is no child abuse.

In a polygamous marriage, the same conditions would exist. Why do you see mistreatment of women and children a problem in this kind of system?

Please enlighten me. And remember. We are talking about polygamy commanded by God. Not a Muslim polygamy. . .

How could it POSSIBLY be the same as monogomous marriage? Given any community, the ratio of men:women should be 50:50. In the case of a polygamist community, it will start with many more women than men, but after 1 generation, there should be a 50:50 ratio, correct?

So, if there are 100 men and 100 women, say only 10 of the men can marry and the other 90 are left out. In the case of the FLDS church, they are kicked out.

Those 90 that can not marry are doomed to a lesser kingdom because there are no wives left for them to marry.

How does God's true polygamy practiced in rightousness solve this problem?

[Truth]

My intent of the thread is as Charity has stated. Sorry for any misperceptions.

I think basically it comes down to you either believe Joseph is a prophet or he is not. If he is, then all the ramblings, murmurings, excuses and whatnot against polygamy are the same as saying God got it wrong. If Joseph is not a prophet, then you are just complaining about something that does not pertain to you.

It is one way or the other, you don't get to have it both ways.

Furthermore, it is not demeaning to women or children, many women supported it, maybe they had the testimony you do not. Besides, how do you know it was demeaning? You don't, you just pulled that out of the air and claimed something you don't know. Yeah, some complained, many were faithful. Some passed the test, some didn't, yet some of you set yourselves up in making the decision if it was right or wrong and are judging God based on a revelation given to a prophet. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, so yeah, if He said for Abraham, why not to a living prophet as well. Just like when it was stopped, we follow the living prophet over a dead one.

This tells me simply that there are many who look for any excuse to justify unbelief. I think several have answered my inquiry by the snideness and off-point attempts to justify their untenable positions.

[pezp]

just the fact the you follow a living prophet over a dead one is contradictory to say that god is the same yesterday and today...you wouldnt have to say that if your prophets alwasy taught the same thing...

you believe in a god that changes his mind

[Truth]

Continuing revelation.

What is different now then from that time, nothing. The Lord says it will be when He says. It is still the same.

[pezp]

ok just as an example...in the bible we read that there is only one god, and there is no god before him or after him.....the living prophets of today say there are many gods.....obviusly you follow the living one...

im just saying what the books say not that i believe one or the other

[charity]

Scottie: Stick to the point. God commands it. When God commands it, every worthy person has the opportunity to obtain the blessings. He makes sure of that. Do I know exactly how that works out? No. Do I have to? No. God does. And He is the one in charge.

The guessing about how that works out with numbers, etc. is not pertinent.

Edited for a misplaced capital letter.

[charity]

pezp: ok just as an example...in the bible we read that there is only one god, and there is no god before him or after him.....the living prophets of today say there are many gods.....obviusly you follow the living one...

im just saying what the books say not that i believe one or the other

Pezp, there is a thread about polygamy. No changing the subject. Go to another thread or start your own on a different topic.

[pezp]

it was just an example of what is being said here so..its ok if you dont have an answer as to contradictory comanments teachings whatever you name it

[Dill Pickles]

So did Abraham not practice it in the name of God? Did he just take it upon himself?

From the Pickle jar: you might want to read your Genesis a little closer. And it helps to remember that the Bible is not always translated correctly, and that often it was rewritten to reflect a specific point of view. And it might help even further if you realize that no one has actually proven that Abraham and Solomon, etc. actually existed. Wouldn't it be a pickle, if people gambled their entire lives on a myth?

As for the Joseph Smith duality: it's entirely possible to believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and also believe that he made some mistakes. Perfection is not a pre-requisite to prophethood. It's entirely possible that polygamy was one of Joseph's mistakes. Kinda like looking through a dark glass pickle jar that may hold pickled asparagus, not pickled green beans. Ya gotta open up the jar and peek in, if you want to be sure. In Joseph's case, we only have the dark glass; we can't open up a lid and look inside to see if he was right in this case. He was wrong about a few things (I'm sure any anti worth his salt could list Joseph's mistaken prophecies); Joseph might have been wrong about this one too.

As far as the Muslims, FLDS, etc. are concerned: their experience is valid, as valid as Joseph's or Brigham's. To state otherwise is to denigrate God's communication with anyone outside of the LDS leadership. Unless you are willing to state unequivocally that God only communicates with LDS prophets, that's not an argument that will hold water (or brine). They believe they are following God's commandment, the same as Joseph and Brigham did. Unless we give respect to them and their communication with God, we risk every non-Mormon withholding respect for our communication with God. Do unto others and all that. Our commandments are no more valid than theirs, when placed side by side in front of a disinterested judge. We may claim higher validity, but that doesn't mean we actually have it. What makes Joseph and Brigham's commandments more valid than Warren Jeffs or Mohammod's? We don't get to decide what is ultimately valid, ultimately correct; that's God's job.

If Joseph was wrong, then Jeffs is wrong today, because FLDS polygamy is based on Joseph's revelation, but that doesn't make the Muslims wrong, unless one believes that polygamy is never commanded by God. Only by going with the never goes one negate the Muslims.

No need for anyone to get in a pickle. I'll clean up the spilled brine before I head back to the jar.

[charity]

Pezp replied to Charity: "it was just an example of what is being said here so..its ok if you dont have an answer as to contradictory comanments teachings whatever you name it"

Start your new thread on this topic and I will glad to engage you in discussion.

[Kmshrkx]

I have no problem with polygamy as long as there is no abuse or coersion used. I feel that no one should be forced into a marriage they do not want. I have read many examples of young girls being forced to marry to these old geezers. Also, remember that these old geezers are just men and maybe just maybe they were not acting on Gods behalf.

[juliann]

Scottie, Polygamy, as commanded by God, would be the same as a monogamous marriage is today in the LDS church. People enter into a marriage, freely, out of love and a desire to form a family unit.

All we know is polygamy in a politically repressive environment where women did not have equal rights or opportunity in monogamy. I also question how much love went into 19th century marriages as opposed to pragmatic decisions. I don't see how we could make any predictions based on what occurred and what a polygamous marriage would be like in any other circumstance...or why we would need to. I remain bemused over the nonstop moral outrage over something that happened so long ago while our world as we know it is literally falling apart.

Polygamy was on the decline before the manifesto. It cannot sustain itself without a constant source of women. Again, I have not seen any convincing argument detailing how this system could survive any longer than it did the first time.

[Truth]

dill and others, this is NOT about the FLDS, I don't care about them, I am talking about LDS and polygamy.

As to Abraham being a myth and his wives, are you a member, and if so have you read the scriptures?

[countbasie]

How do the LDS square polygamy with St. Paul's command (I Cor. 7:2) "let each man have his own wife and let each woman have her own husband"? Could a woman have her own husband if, in fact, she is only one of a number of wives to that individual?

edit--I'm sure there's a way around it --just curious what it is