Spiritual Perception

[Nofear]

A nice little video (3'26") on how we perceive both more and less than what our visual data gives us. All very good scientifically established ideas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EvvkmD_U64

The question I have, is how might one express these ideas as it relates to spiritual perception that we humans experience (couched in LDS language).

 

[Dario_M]

I'm curious what the answers will be. 

[manol]

12 hours ago, Nofear said:

A nice little video (3'26") on how we perceive both more and less than what our visual data gives us. All very good scientifically established ideas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EvvkmD_U64

The question I have, is how might one express these ideas as it relates to spiritual perception that we humans experience (couched in LDS language).

I watched the video twice and it is not apparent to me that there's a way in which what he's describing "relates to spiritual perception that we humans experience".   

Maybe I'm just really slow, but can you explain what about the video leads you to your question?  And, can you describe what you have in mind when you say "spiritual perception that we humans experience"? 

Thanks!

Edited November 1, 2024 by manol

[Nofear]

11 hours ago, manol said:

I watched the video twice and it is not apparent to me that there's a way in which what he's describing "relates to spiritual perception that we humans experience".   

Maybe I'm just really slow, but can you explain what about the video leads you to your question?  And, can you describe what you have in mind when you say "spiritual perception that we humans experience"?

Maybe it doesn't. The basic point of the video is that with visual perception we "see" much more than the electromagnetic radiation that stimulates our retinas. At the same time, we "see" much less than than what stimulates the retinas*.

When we experience the Spirit, how much of that communication do we enlarge upon and how much is discarded? As Jospeh Smith says, "This first comforter, or Holy Ghost, has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is …powerful in expanding the mind [and] enlightening the understanding." While I can't speak for others, many, perhaps most, times the Spirit does enlarge my mind and convey understanding. Sometimes, it is more of a peaceable effect (hence the name Comforter). Perhaps the spiritual stimulus is the same between the two scenarios but my mental state is what varies and so how I receive/interpret/experience the spiritual stimulus is different.




* "In terms of sensory input, roughly 1 million ganglion cell axons (out of around 125 million photoreceptor cells in the retina) carry the visual data. So, this results in a roughly 1 in 100 ratio of processed retinal input reaching the brain through the optic nerve." --chatgpt

[manol]

On 11/1/2024 at 8:04 AM, Nofear said:

Maybe it doesn't. The basic point of the video is that with visual perception we "see" much more than the electromagnetic radiation that stimulates our retinas. At the same time, we "see" much less than than what stimulates the retinas*.

When we experience the Spirit, how much of that communication do we enlarge upon and how much is discarded? As Jospeh Smith says, "This first comforter, or Holy Ghost, has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is …powerful in expanding the mind [and] enlightening the understanding." While I can't speak for others, many, perhaps most, times the Spirit does enlarge my mind and convey understanding. Sometimes, it is more of a peaceable effect (hence the name Comforter). Perhaps the spiritual stimulus is the same between the two scenarios but my mental state is what varies and so how I receive/interpret/experience the spiritual stimulus is different.

Thank you.  This is very helpful.

Edited November 2, 2024 by manol

[manol]

@Nofear, here is what comes to mind:

Like the different manifestations of energy along the electromagnetic spectrum, ranging from very low frequency to incredibly high frequency, the realm of spiritual energy ranges from low (like shame and hopelessness) to high (like the pure love of Christ). There is of course this difference: We are only able to experience a small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum (mostly the visible light region), whereas we are able to experience whichever portion of the spiritual energy spectrum our own spirit is aligned to. The high end of the spiritual energy spectrum (that which emanates from God and fills the immensity of space) is present all around us, but we are normally not aligned to it, and so we do not normally perceive and experience it. We perceive and experience that which we have chosen to be, or allowed ourselves to be, aligned to.

So if we allow ourselves [our thoughts and attitudes] to take the path of least resistance and default-align to a negative spiritual energy, that is the lens through which we perceive, and that is what we experience. If we choose to align ourselves [our thoughts and attitudes] to a very high spiritual energy, like the presence of the Holy Spirit, then that is the lens through which we perceive, and that is what we experience.

In my opinion.

(Also just my opinion:  We can align ourselves to "that which emanates from God and fills the immensity of space" by letting go of every thought which is aligned to a lower spiritual energy.  This is of course is easier said than done down here in mortality, and intentionally so, as mortality is like the spiritual equivalent of going to the gym.) 

Edited November 2, 2024 by manol

[Nofear]

1 hour ago, manol said:

whereas we are able to experience whichever portion of the spiritual energy spectrum our own spirit is aligned to ... etc.

As a physicist, this approach doesn't align very well with my general way of understanding reality. Doesn't mean your wrong but it isn't a line of thought I'm prone to put much energy (pun intended) into.

[manol]

1 hour ago, Nofear said:

As a physicist, this approach doesn't align very well with my general way of understanding reality. Doesn't mean your wrong but it isn't a line of thought I'm prone to put much energy (pun intended) into.

 

Fair enough.  Let me try again:

Drawing from (but not precisely quoting) your words:  "The spiritual stimulus is the same, but our mental state is what varies and so how we receive/interpret/experience the spiritual stimulus is different." 

So here is a streamlined version of what I'm saying:  Our perception of and experience of spiritual stimuli depend on our mental state, and our mental state can be brought under conscious control.

 

Edited November 2, 2024 by manol

[manol]

@Nofear, I see that you “liked” my preceding post. This might mean “okay that makes some sense”, or it might mean “well... thanks for trying”.

On the off-chance that it's more the former than the latter, let me take another look at some ideas from a previous post, but through a different lens:

There is a spectrum of available mental states ranging from low, like shame and hopelessness, to very high, like the pure love of Christ and the presence of the Holy Spirit. We perceive and experience that mental state which we are aligned to, and it is our thoughts and attitudes which do the aligning.  In other words, our ability to receive/interpret/experience spiritual stimuli is a function of our thoughts and attitudes.

In my opinion.

Nofear, I really hope you get some responses from those with a more mainstream LDS perspective, because I don't think I'm giving you the answer(s) you were hoping for. 

Edited November 3, 2024 by manol