Come Follow Me (April 1-7) - Talk about chastity, no mention of polygamy

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, webbles said:

The book arrived.  It doesn't have that quote.  It has an index at the back and I looked at every page that was listed under Mercy.

Interesting.

No word from her either in response to my email (I even checked my spam folder…yech!)

Maybe if @Portal has communicated with her before, he could reach out?

Edited April 12, 2024 by Calm

[webbles]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Interesting.

No word from her either in response to my email (I even checked my spam folder…yech!)

Maybe if @Portal has communicated with her before, he could reach out?

I just noticed that my book is a revised edition published on November 22, 2022.  The first edition was published on July 30, 2022.  So it is possible that quote is in the first edition.  On page 373 of my edition, in footnote 1508, it has this cryptic message "Mercy's brother, Joseph Fielding recorded facts in his journals that reveal Mercy was not honest in her statements regarding Hyrum."  Maybe the first edition had listed the "went to visit Mercy at her little log cabin" quote as one of those facts and then was removed in the later revision.  I find it odd that the author says Joseph Fielding disproved Mercy's statements in a footnote and doesn't explain what those things are.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

I just noticed that my book is a revised edition published on November 22, 2022.  The first edition was published on July 30, 2022.  So it is possible that quote is in the first edition.  On page 373 of my edition, in footnote 1508, it has this cryptic message "Mercy's brother, Joseph Fielding recorded facts in his journals that reveal Mercy was not honest in her statements regarding Hyrum."  Maybe the first edition had listed the "went to visit Mercy at her little log cabin" quote as one of those facts and then was removed in the later revision.  I find it odd that the author says Joseph Fielding disproved Mercy's statements in a footnote and doesn't explain what those things are.

I bet you are right. And I bet it was removed because she messed up. 

Interesting it was revised so quickly. 

Whether that is why I am not getting a response, who knows. 

[webbles]

20 hours ago, Calm said:

I bet you are right. And I bet it was removed because she messed up. 

Interesting it was revised so quickly. 

Whether that is why I am not getting a response, who knows. 

I wouldn't recommend the book, nor her other book about Joseph Smith.  The author is a bit too loose with the sources.  For instance, she quotes from Martha Brotherton's affidavit to show that Brigham Young was teaching polygamy behind Joseph Smith's back.  She completely ignores the fact that the affidavit also implicates Joseph Smith.  Another instance, she quotes William Marks saying that Joseph was going to root out polygamy and she ignores the part where William Marks says that Joseph received the polygamy revelation.  She picks phrases and ideas from a source that fit her thesis and ignores the rest of the same source that disproves her thesis.

The author is also a Snufferite by the time she writes the Hyrum book.  She quotes from the "Teachings and Commandments" (the Snufferite version of the Doctrine and Covenants) and from Snuffer's website to explain the theology that Joseph and Hyrum taught.

[Calm]

On 4/9/2024 at 1:01 AM, Calm said:

I have written the author of the website and hopefully she will respond with her source so we can see if my guess is right or if there is another bio she has access to.

She responded a day or two ago and she does not have the book where she got the info from (so thank you Weebles for tracking that down so I don’t go to my deathbed wondering ).  She also said she is deleting number 69 because, if I understood her correctly, the context of the Fielding siblings is too complicated to do in a brief statement as she is presenting, so she can’t do it justice.  Unless there is much more info elsewhere in Horning’s book than you have mentioned already, I don’t see how she can assume Mercy isn’t being truthful about moving in after the sealing though.

She directed me to the book for more info.

@webbles could you check to see if there are multiple journals of Joseph Fielding to see if there is more than that one bit about visiting Mercy much earlier than when she was sealed to Hyrum? 

Edited April 27, 2024 by Calm

[webbles]

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

She responded a day or two ago and she does not have the book where she got the info from (so thank you Weebles for tracking that down so I don’t go to my deathbed wondering ).  She also said she is deleting number 69 because, if I understood her correctly, the context of the Fielding siblings is too complicated to do in a brief statement as she is presenting, so she can’t do it justice.  Unless there is much more info elsewhere in Horning’s book than you have mentioned already, I don’t see how she can assume Mercy isn’t being truthful about moving in after the sealing though.

She directed me to the book for more info.

@webbles could you check to see if there are multiple journals of Joseph Fielding to see if there is more than that one bit about visiting Mercy much earlier than when she was sealed to Hyrum? 

She directed you to the "Hyrum Smith: A Prophet Unsung" book for more info?  I don't see where it would be in the book.  I've checked all the places indicated in the index on Mercy and I've read through the various sections that deal with polygamy and I haven't noticed anything besides that cryptic footnote.

Was she able to clarify who "Robert" was?

As for Joseph Fielding, there are several journals of his, but only one that covers the later Nauvoo period.  All his journals can be viewed at https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/record/137a9791-d4fa-434c-b216-2ed1a0da64d2/0?view=browse.  A typed copy of all of the journals looks to be available at https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/records/item/385906-diary-of-joseph-fielding?offset=.  There's also letters that he wrote.  Several of them are in Mary Fielding Smith's collection https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/record/a5a4b8a7-777a-4d83-90d3-f3c9646eeb96/0?view=browse.  None of Joseph Fielding's letters in that collection are from the Nauvoo period, though.  I don't know of any other collection that has letters from Joseph Fielding.

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, webbles said:

She directed you to the "Hyrum Smith: A Prophet Unsung" book for more info

This is part of her reply (since I didn’t ask her permission I am not posting the whole email, but it amounts to this anyway):

Quote

For the best context and added information on the Fielding family, I recommend reading Whitney Horning's book yourself if at all possible

Do I have your permission to use your above summation in response to her?  I think I will ask her is she knows Horning personally or just referenced her book and if it was possibly the first edition. 

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

This is part of her reply (since I didn’t ask her permission I am not posting the whole email, but it amounts to this anyway):

Do I have your permission to use your above summation in response to her?  I think I will ask her is she knows Horning personally or just referenced her book and if it was possibly the first edition. 

 

Go ahead.

Here's the full footnote on page 373:

Quote

1508 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims that around 40 women were sealed to Joseph and a few women were sealed to Hyrum as plural wives.  Emma stated throughout her life that no other women were sealed to Joseph as his wives.  One of the women who claimed she was sealed to Hyrum as a plural wife was his sister-in-law, Mercy Fielding Thompson.  Mercy, however, claimed that she was Hyrum's only plural wife and that there were no others.  Mercy's brother, Joseph Fielding recorderd facts in his journals that reveal Mercy was not honest in her statements regarding Hyrum. Either Hyrum was telling the truth in his final conference address when he stated that he was never involved in a plurality of wives and had been sealed to only one wife, Jerusha, or the LDS Church is telling the truth and Hyrum was publicly preaching against a practice he was secretly involved in, which would mean he was a hypocrite and a liar.

There's another footnote that is similar on page 304:

Quote

1214 See Cook, Lyndon W. (2004). Nauvoo Marriages and Proxy Sealings 1843-1846. Provo UT: Grandin Book Company. The LDS Church claims that Hyrum had a few plural wives, one of whom was his sister-in-law, Mercy Fielding Thompson.  Mercy contradicted herself in her various reminscences.  In one she claimed that she was sealed to her deceased husband, Robert Blashel Thompson, by Joseph Smith with Hyrum acting as proxy, not as a plural wife to Hyrum.  In that same reminiscence she stated that her sister, Mary, stood as proxy for Jerusha to be sealed to Hyrum.  She further stated that Mary was not sealed to Hyrum on that day, contrary to what LDS historians claim.  In other statements made after Hyrum and Mary's deaths, Mercy claimed that she was Hyrum's plural wife, and his only one. However, the facts she gave in order to prove her assertion do not match facts that her brother, Joseph Fielding, recorded in his journal. Hyrum's consistent statements that he had only one Eternal wife, Jerusha, cast doubt upon the truthfulness of Mercy's claim that she was a plural wife to Hyrum. Additionaly, one must consider that Mercy was sealed to John Taylor on January 23, 1846, for "time" so that she could be sealed to her deceased husband, Robert, for eternity.  Mercy left John Taylor and was sealed to James Lawson by 1848 and living with him as wife, see Mercy F. Thompson letter to Mary Fielding Smith, January 11, 1848.  Mercy later sued Lawson for divorce and remained unmarried for the remainder of her life.

 

A note about the first footnote, Horning mentions a conference address where Hyrum stated he had been sealed to only one wife.  This is one of the places where it feels like she is intentionally misleading the reader.  She quotes the address earlier on page 157 (the book is not a linear history so that is why the pages are all scattered) and leaves out one line that changes the entire meaning.  Here is what she quoted:

Quote

I married me a wife, [Jerusha] ... the covenant was mode for our lives. She fell in the grave before God shewed us his authority. God has shewed me that the Covenant is dead & had no more force neither could I have her in the resurrection, but we should be as the angels. It troubled me. Brother Joseph said, "you can be sealed to her upon the same principle as you can be baptized for the dead." "What can I do for my 2nd wife [Mary]?" "You can make a covenant with her for eternity & be sealed to her and she said I will act as a proxy for the one that is dead."

Horning uses that address to show that Hyrum was only sealed to Jerusha and Mary was proxy for the sealing.  Except she left off the very next line, "and I will be sealed to you for eternity".  You can see the transcript at https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/daa151c4-7bae-49d0-8cef-d281a70f1d32/0/33.  This part starts at the end of the third line.  The missing line starts on the end of the 10th line.  I've noticed this happen in several places that argue against Hyrum's polygamy.  I even saw one place quote this and change the line to say "and I will be sealed to you for her for eternity".

[webbles]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

@webbles could you check to see if there are multiple journals of Joseph Fielding to see if there is more than that one bit about visiting Mercy much earlier than when she was sealed to Hyrum? 

I think I found the citation for her references to the Joseph Fielding diaries: Joseph Fielding, Diary of Joseph Fielding, March 1797-December 19, 1863, MS 15214, LDS Church History Library, Salt Lake City.  She cites that on page 139 in footnote 569.  It is the first reference to his diaries, so it is probably the version of the diaries that she used in her book.

The history library doesn't have it viewable online - https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/record/e7014c36-95f7-48e1-82ed-463054c707e5/0?view=summary&lang=eng.  It says it was published in 1997.  It is possible that that book has the specific text.

Edited April 28, 2024 by webbles

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, webbles said:

I think I found the citation for her references to the Joseph Fielding diaries: Joseph Fielding, Diary of Joseph Fielding, March 1797-December 19, 1863, MS 15214, LDS Church History Library, Salt Lake City.  She cites that on page 139 in footnote 569.  It is the first reference to his diaries, so it is probably the version of the diaries that she used in her book.

The history library doesn't have it viewable online - https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/record/e7014c36-95f7-48e1-82ed-463054c707e5/0?view=summary&lang=eng.  It says it was published in 1997.  It is possible that that book has the specific text.

You can ask them to digitize it so it can be viewable…or s5 least you used to be able to.  Not telling you to do it, but I am digging up stuff for my own family right now, so brain is fixated on that.

Edited April 28, 2024 by Calm