A Remarkable Passage in Alma 37

[manol]

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I’m not sure I understand your question. Do you want specific quotes?

No, I was not asking for specific quotes.

My question has been answered; see my reply to @Pyreaux a few posts up.

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

If so, we will have to go through all the revealed words spoken by the Nephite prophets who came before him, all the words his father taught him before and after his rebellion, all the words he heard during his miraculous conversion, all the discussions he had with his friends among the sins of Mosiah, all the words he read in their scriptures, all the revealed sermons he and Amulek gave during their missionary journeys, all the revelations he received, and much more. In a word, though, the Lord’s word to him that he preached was, “Repent.” 

If I understand correctly, in this context you equate “the words of Christ” with “all the revealed words spoken by the Nephite prophets who came before him, all the words his father taught him before and after his rebellion, all the words he heard during his miraculous conversion, all the discussions he had with his friends among the sins of Mosiah, all the words he read in their scriptures, all the revealed sermons he and Amulek gave during their missionary journeys, all the revelations he received, and much more.”

Imo the problem with broadening the definition of “the words of Christ” to include the words of all these other people is that doing so DILUTES the importance of the ACTUAL words of Christ. My preference is to define “the words of Christ” to be “the actual words of Christ”, to the best of our knowledge. I do understand the LDS doctrine which conditionally elevates the words of its prophets and apostles and possibly others to equal standing with the actual words of Christ, which could theoretically have been what Alma had in mind.  However, given access to the unabridged record of the Brother of Jared's encounter with Christ which would have been available to Alma and Helaman, in this case I think Alma was referring to "the actual words of Christ" contained in that record. 

Of course I could be wrong.

(Along similar lines, imo the Christian world in general has a related issue due to the prevailing unexamined belief that "the Bible is the word of God", as this belief elevates everything in the Bible to equal standing with those few parts which actually do qualify as "the word of God", such as the words of Jesus Christ.  We end up with a Christianity which is largely focused on believing something about Jesus, instead of focusing on believing and doing what Jesus actually said.)

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by manol

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, manol said:

No, I was not asking for specific quotes.

My question has been answered; see my reply to @Pyreaux a few posts up.

If I understand correctly, in this context you equate “the words of Christ” with “all the revealed words spoken by the Nephite prophets who came before him, all the words his father taught him before and after his rebellion, all the words he heard during his miraculous conversion, all the discussions he had with his friends among the sins of Mosiah, all the words he read in their scriptures, all the revealed sermons he and Amulek gave during their missionary journeys, all the revelations he received, and much more.”

Imo the problem with broadening the definition of “the words of Christ” to include the words of all these other people is that doing so DILUTES the importance of the ACTUAL words of Christ. My preference is to define “the words of Christ” to be “the actual words of Christ”, to the best of our knowledge. I do understand the LDS doctrine which conditionally elevates the words of its prophets and apostles and possibly others to equal standing with the actual words of Christ, which could theoretically have been what Alma had in mind.  However, given access to the unabridged record of the Brother of Jared's encounter with Christ which would have been available to Alma and Helaman, in this case I think Alma was referring to "the actual words of Christ" contained in that record. 

Of course I could be wrong.

(Along similar lines, imo the Christian world in general has a related issue due to the prevailing unexamined belief that "the Bible is the word of God", as this belief elevates everything in the Bible to equal standing with those few parts which actually do qualify as "the word of God", such as the words of Jesus Christ.  We end up with a Christianity which is largely focused on believing something about Jesus, instead of focusing on believing and doing what Jesus actually said.)

 

 

I think I understand what you are saying, but it makes no sense to me. What you are looking for is a Red Letter edition of the Book of Mormon?

I can provide you a host of statements spoken to the Levite’s and others by Jesus before he was born. Many are direct quotes. In addition there is a multitude of statements by prophets who received direct revelation from God and reported it as such, and many more that are words of prophets without attribution.

So where’s the beef?

[manol]

42 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think I understand what you are saying...

Thanks for letting me know.

42 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

but it makes no sense to me.

Okay.

42 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

What you are looking for is a Red Letter edition of the Book of Mormon?

I assume you're being facetious, but just in case, No.  My question about what “words of Christ” Alma was referring to when speaking to his son several decades before Christ was born was not a request for a Red Letter edition of the Book of Mormon.

42 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I can provide you a host of statements spoken to the Levite’s and others by Jesus before he was born. Many are direct quotes. In addition there is a multitude of statements by prophets who received direct revelation from God and reported it as such, and many more that are words of prophets without attribution.

You and I have different concepts of what the phrase “the words of Christ” means. 

42 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

So where’s the beef?

I don't understand this question. If it's something you want me to reply to, please explain what you mean.

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by manol