pogi Posted July 8, 2021 Posted July 8, 2021 On 7/7/2021 at 3:41 PM, Esrom said: I am excited to join this forum. Been away from church for 30 years during which time I studied many other spiritual paths. It's a shock to me to be studying Mormonism again at this point in my life. I am finishing a re-read of the Book of Mormon, first time in 4 decades. All I can say so far is there's a richness and a spirit I've encountered on no other path. Members complain about the most petty things, not realizing what they have, imho. I briefly experienced exmo Tik Tok and was unprepared for the amount of sheer vitriol there. It seems as though a mass exodus is afoot. Interesting times! I hope to learn much here! Welcome to the forum! I am excited to hear about your experiences which led you to other spiritual paths and back to the church.
Esrom Posted July 8, 2021 Posted July 8, 2021 Hello, nice to meet you! I completely left the church behind 30 years ago and studied & practiced Buddhism, Kabbalah, human potential movement, along with various brands of Christianity. Much of it was fascinating intellectually, and I saw many common threads, but none was satisfying. Last year I encountered a Restoration type group and began studying Mormon history a bit here and there, and then with the study time provide by the pandemic, my interest only grew. What surprised me most was feeling that familiar spirit, that so many would know, & realizing I hadn't felt that in my other studies. I'm sure psychology types could provide an explanation for that. But it affected me. I wouldn't say I'm back, it's a process I think. Currently I'm intrigued by the Book of Mormon and trying to reason thru the rotating explanations. I just cannot fathom Joseph wrote such a complex work in the circumstances that are known, and then went on to endure the steep personal costs to him and his entire family if it were a fraud. At the same time, I have so many questions.
mfbukowski Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Esrom said: What surprised me most was feeling that familiar spirit, that so many would know, & realizing I hadn't felt that in my other studies. I'm sure psychology types could provide an explanation for that. No, they could give you evidence filtered thru THEIR interpretation of YOUR experience, like interpretations of NDE's as being caused by pending brain death, but no one can tell you the exact qualities of YOUR subjective experiences or how to interpret their significance. Science is deliberately silent on the meaning, purpose, and significance of any "subjective" experience due to scientific method
Esrom Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 True, tho I figured they'd say it was some sort of recalled subconscious conditioning.
Esrom Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 Thank you! Absence of mods is definitely what makes TikTok so crazy. I dont know if you've dabbled there but it's vicious. Some dance around in temple clothing, mock the prophets, burn patriarchal blessings, etc. Having just finished the Book of Mormon, it reminded me of their societal decay, tho more technically advanced of course.
mfbukowski Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 Suggestion: When responding to an individual, at the bottom of his quote, hit the "quote" button, and the software will 2 hours ago, Esrom said: Thank you! Absence of mods is definitely what makes TikTok so crazy. I dont know if you've dabbled there but it's vicious. Some dance around in temple clothing, mock the prophets, burn patriarchal blessings, etc. Having just finished the Book of Mormon, it reminded me of their societal decay, tho more technically advanced of course. make a copy of the post you are quoting, so the person knows that its he or she you are responding to, like this example! And you can set up notifications, so you know someone responded to you when you open the app.
Esrom Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 8 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Suggestion: When responding to an individual, at the bottom of his quote, hit the "quote" button, and the software will make a copy of the post you are quoting, so the person knows that its he or she you are responding to, like this example! And you can set up notifications, so you know someone responded to you when you open the app. Thanks, I missed that! Newbie missteps!
Ryan Dahle Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 14 hours ago, Esrom said: Hello, nice to meet you! I completely left the church behind 30 years ago and studied & practiced Buddhism, Kabbalah, human potential movement, along with various brands of Christianity. Much of it was fascinating intellectually, and I saw many common threads, but none was satisfying. Last year I encountered a Restoration type group and began studying Mormon history a bit here and there, and then with the study time provide by the pandemic, my interest only grew. What surprised me most was feeling that familiar spirit, that so many would know, & realizing I hadn't felt that in my other studies. I'm sure psychology types could provide an explanation for that. But it affected me. I wouldn't say I'm back, it's a process I think. Currently I'm intrigued by the Book of Mormon and trying to reason thru the rotating explanations. I just cannot fathom Joseph wrote such a complex work in the circumstances that are known, and then went on to endure the steep personal costs to him and his entire family if it were a fraud. At the same time, I have so many questions. Hi Esrom, Welcome. As far as competing Book of Mormon explanations, you may be interested in the following articles: Brian C. Hales, “Naturalistic Explanations of the Origin of the Book of Mormon: A Longitudinal Study,” BYU Studies Quarterly 58, no. 3 (2019): 105–148. Brian C. Hales, "Curiously Unique: Joseph Smith as Author of the Book of Mormon," Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship 31 (2019): 151-190. Daniel C. Peterson, “Editor’s Introduction: ‘In the Hope That Something Will Stick’: Changing Explanations for the Book of Mormon,” FARMS Review 16, no. 2 (2004): xi-xxxv. Daniel C. Peterson, “The Divine Source of the Book of Mormon in the Face of Alternative Theories Advocated by LDS Critics,” 2001 FairMormon Conference Presentation, online at archive.bookofmormoncentral.org. And as for Book of Mormon complexity, you might consider looking at Complexity and Translation categories at Evidence Central: Complexity Translation Evidence Central is a fairly new website and is just getting started, so the research there isn't yet comprehensive. But it does offer a way to look at evidence relationships that is unprecedented. (Full disclosure: I'm the project manager for the website so my assessment may be a bit biased.) The website looks best on desktop. Mobile is still pretty rough. Good luck with your continuing reinvestigation. 1
mfbukowski Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Esrom said: Thanks, I missed that! Newbie missteps! No problem!! I have been on this thing now like 10 years and I still have problems!
Esrom Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Ryan Dahle said: Hi Esrom, Welcome. As far as competing Book of Mormon explanations, you may be interested in the following articles: Brian C. Hales, “Naturalistic Explanations of the Origin of the Book of Mormon: A Longitudinal Study,” BYU Studies Quarterly 58, no. 3 (2019): 105–148. Brian C. Hales, "Curiously Unique: Joseph Smith as Author of the Book of Mormon," Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship 31 (2019): 151-190. Daniel C. Peterson, “Editor’s Introduction: ‘In the Hope That Something Will Stick’: Changing Explanations for the Book of Mormon,” FARMS Review 16, no. 2 (2004): xi-xxxv. Daniel C. Peterson, “The Divine Source of the Book of Mormon in the Face of Alternative Theories Advocated by LDS Critics,” 2001 FairMormon Conference Presentation, online at archive.bookofmormoncentral.org. And as for Book of Mormon complexity, you might consider looking at Complexity and Translation categories at Evidence Central: Complexity Translation Evidence Central is a fairly new website and is just getting started, so the research there isn't yet comprehensive. But it does offer a way to look at evidence relationships that is unprecedented. (Full disclosure: I'm the project manager for the website so my assessment may be a bit biased.) The website looks best on desktop. Mobile is still pretty rough. Good luck with your continuing reinvestigation. Thank you. Your list included several articles I had not yet seen. I really like the info on the Evidence Central website! I think it would be fascinating if incontrovertible evidence emerged for BOM. Followed of course by the critics denying it
mfbukowski Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) On 7/9/2021 at 12:52 PM, Esrom said: Thank you. Your list included several articles I had not yet seen. I really like the info on the Evidence Central website! I think it would be fascinating if incontrovertible evidence emerged for BOM. Followed of course by the critics denying it That is, of course why I don't bother with it- it will never be resolved and will always be faith based. We should not seek for signs. I don't know why we are less concerned about the mess the existing "Bible" is, and should accept both or neither if we need "historical evidence" as a crutch. We need to know revelation when we see it, regardless of the source Edited July 12, 2021 by mfbukowski
Esrom Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 4 hours ago, mfbukowski said: That is, of course why I don't bother with it- it will never be resolved and will always be faith based. We should not seek for signs. I don't know why we are less concerned about the mess the existing "Bible" is, and should accept both or neither if we need "historical evidence" as a crutch. We need to know revelation when we see it, regardless of the source Can you just imagine the news though? Quite a fantasy but fun to indulge a bit.
Recommended Posts