Jesus as Lord and God

[3DOP]

On 7/1/2019 at 6:58 AM, longview said:

Implying that all scriptural descriptions of His Appearance are just figurative?  I suppose it depends on how each person searches through the scriptures and arrives at his overall understanding.

Hi again longview. The delay in replying was necessary because I couldn't log in to my account until yesterday.

I accept and defend what the Catholic Church teaches. My positions are never based on a personal study of Scripture whereby I think a matter of doctrinal controversy can be resolved. That is why I have modest aims when I try to explain the Scriptures from a Catholic perspective. I do not believe that I can prove the Catholic faith from Scripture alone. I only try to show how the Catholic teachings have plausible interpretations of Scripture. You seemed to be wondering how anyone could fail to interpret John 14:9 as LDS do up above. I do not deny that the LDS position, from the Scripture alone, wasn't proven to be false. Your position is plausible. If I were LDS, as I said, I think I would look elsewhere than Jn. 14:9 for proof that the Father has a body. Do you believe you have positively proven that yours is the correct interpretation of John 14:9 from Scripture alone? Was my exposition of the passage plausible? The recognition of multiple plausible interpretations of Scripture helps lead students of the Bible to a healthy humility which helps them see the desperate need for some higher authority to guide them, as the Ethiopian eunuch admitted before his baptism, when asked if he understood the Scriptures he was reading.

My position on Scripture comes from many long years of being surprised at how cleverly the Scriptures can be interpreted, falsely. The devil doesn't give false inspirations to his prophets and apostles that are clearly stupid and easily dismissed. Of course not, he isn't going to fail to use his great intelligence. But the reason why I fear that you may not be ready to accept my way of looking at Scripture is your "blob of energy" comment. You would have to give up that notion! Many souls take comfort in the idea that those who might offer opposition to their faith are absurd and ridiculous. Unfortunately fellow believers often reinforce this. It seems hard to let go of the idea that only the truth can make a lot of sense to us. That is how we begin to be deceived. We know that what we believe is really well crafted and it appeals to our intellect. Then we begin to be attached to it with our wills. We begin to love the belief. And then, we are deceived when we assume that other beliefs that we have not considered cannot possibly be as intellectually appealing. When I was a Baptist, we used to make fun of how stupid "baby sprinklers" were, as we called those who baptized infants. I still remember my amazement after I read a defense of the practice from a Presbyterian author. I wasn't convinced, but I began to realize that no successful error is stupid. No successful error will lead to something ridiculous, like the possible worship of a "blob of energy".

With calm's kind mediating explanation, I can see and appreciate why you believe as you do about John 14:9. I have genuine intellectual respect for what I am forced to perceive, as your successful error. I would think we made some nice progress if you could say the same of my belief, while necessarily perceiving it as my successful error. Only unsuccessful errors lead to "blobs of energy". Believe me when I say I am absolutely not offended with your expression. In a way, it now gives me a little bit of delight and greater confidence when I see a faith that has been embraced by billions of souls for two thousand years to be merely mocked by those who clearly do not understand what they are mocking. I am as guilty, or more so, of having done this in the past because I have been firmly entrenched with those who were deceived through the error of assuming that only the truth can have a great and strong appeal to the mind and will.

Who would go on a mission, or die as a martyr for a "blob of energy"? What a very ridiculous and amusing notion. My thanks, if you allow let me to have some fun with it too.

Rory 

Edited July 4, 2019 by 3DOP

[longview]

6 hours ago, 3DOP said:

I accept and defend what the Catholic Church teaches. My positions are never based on a personal study of Scripture whereby I think a matter of doctrinal controversy can be resolved. That is why I have modest aims when I try to explain the Scriptures from a Catholic perspective. I do not believe that I can prove the Catholic faith from Scripture alone.

I respect your position.  Do you agree that Jesus encourages us to search the scriptures?  For many good reasons, such as developing greater insights, increasing our wisdom, obtaining greater conviction, becoming more Christlike in loving our neighbors, strengthening our testimony, etc, etc.

 

7 hours ago, 3DOP said:

If I were LDS, as I said, I think I would look elsewhere than Jn. 14:9 for proof that the Father has a body. Do you believe you have positively proven that yours is the correct interpretation of John 14:9 from Scripture alone? Was my exposition of the passage plausible? The recognition of multiple plausible interpretations of Scripture helps lead students of the Bible to a healthy humility which helps them see the desperate need for some higher authority to guide them, as the Ethiopian eunuch admitted before his baptism, when asked if he understood the Scriptures he was reading.

I agree that Jn 14:9 is not proof or a slam dunk.  Just saying that there are hundreds of scriptures in both the OT and NT that describe the many attributes of God such as being like a little child (see Matt 18:1-6), shedding tears, having great passion and love, walking, stretching out His arms, embracing, displaying tenderness, etc.  Hopefully this exercise will lead to a better overall conception of His Image.

7 hours ago, 3DOP said:

Who would go on a mission, or die as a martyr for a "blob of energy"? What a very ridiculous and amusing notion. My thanks, if you allow let me to have some fun with it too.

Does not hurt to have congeniality on both our parts.  God bless you in your pilgrimage.