The glories of the kingdoms

[theplains]

These verses are a little confusing. Wondering if anyone could help.

"And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one. And the glory 
of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one. And the glory of the 
telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from 
another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world."
(D&C 76:96-98).

Would you provide some examples of these celestial, terrestrial, and telestial objects
in the heavens?

1 Corinthians 15:40-41 says, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but 
the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is 
one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for 
one star differeth from another star in glory."

After reading this biblical passage, would you consider the sun, moon, other planets, and 
stars as celestial objects from Earth's viewpoint and Earth as the terrestrial? 

Thanks,
Jim

[JLHPROF]

The symbols in these verses referred only to the amount of light as observed from earth.  That is why glory is the specified unit of measurement.

The stars have light, the moon has more, and the sun has most.  As we see them.  That's all.

 

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

The symbols in these verses referred only to the amount of light as observed from earth.  That is why glory is the specified unit of measurement.

The stars have light, the moon has more, and the sun has most.  As we see them.  That's all.

 

Bullseye! Paul’s point is simply to liken the varying degrees of glory we will inherit in the resurrection to the varying degrees of light emitted from the sun, moon and stars as viewed from the perspective of one standing on surface of the earth. Interestingly, the sun itself emits varying degrees of intensity of light depending on its position in the sky and time of year. Similarly, the moon also emits varying degrees of intensity of light depending on what phase it’s in. And it goes without saying that from the perspective of one standing on the earth some stars appear to be brighter than others. “So also is the resurrection of the dead...”

Edited October 22, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

These verses are a little confusing. Wondering if anyone could help................................

After reading this biblical passage, would you consider the sun, moon, other planets, and 
stars as celestial objects from Earth's viewpoint and Earth as the terrestrial? ................

One might want to compare the Qabbalistic three worlds: supercelestial (angelic), celestial, and terrestrial (sublunar) as the path of the Sephiroth (Yates, Giordano Bruno, 95,121-122), in addition to the tripartite order of nature & cosmos, i.e., Intellectus, Spiritus, and Materia = intellect, soul, and body,* in addition to other triads, such as the three heavens (Yates, Giordano, 137; Bushman, Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling, 196-202, citing Emanuel Swedenborg, Treatise Concerning Heaven and Hell [1812 American ed.]; Paul in I Corinthians 15:24 telos,40-42, “celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial,” in resurrected glories of the sun, moon, and stars; II Corinthians 12:2, and D&C 76).

*  Yates, Giordano Bruno, 65-69,121,131,136,140,175,179,213,309-310,314,443,451.  The Mens, Intellectus, and Affectus = Father, Son/Word, and Spiritus/Light (see esp Yates, Giordano, 51-52,309-310, citing Picatrix II:xii, and Bruno’s Opere latine III:37-54,60, where he is utilizing the Pimander and Asclepius [Lógos Téleios] of the Corpus Hermeticum).

[theplains]

On 22/10/2017 at 5:18 PM, JLHPROF said:

The symbols in these verses referred only to the amount of light as observed from earth.  That is why glory is the specified unit of measurement.

The stars have light, the moon has more, and the sun has most.  As we see them.  That's all.

What other 'telestial' bodies like the moon are there?

Jim

[theplains]

On 22/10/2017 at 7:00 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

One might want to compare the Qabbalistic three worlds: supercelestial (angelic), celestial, and terrestrial (sublunar) as the path of the Sephiroth (Yates, Giordano Bruno, 95,121-122), in addition to the tripartite order of nature & cosmos, i.e., Intellectus, Spiritus, and Materia = intellect, soul, and body,* in addition to other triads, such as the three heavens (Yates, Giordano, 137; Bushman, Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling, 196-202, citing Emanuel Swedenborg, Treatise Concerning Heaven and Hell [1812 American ed.]; Paul in I Corinthians 15:24 telos,40-42, “celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial,” in resurrected glories of the sun, moon, and stars; II Corinthians 12:2, and D&C 76).

*  Yates, Giordano Bruno, 65-69,121,131,136,140,175,179,213,309-310,314,443,451.  The Mens, Intellectus, and Affectus = Father, Son/Word, and Spiritus/Light (see esp Yates, Giordano, 51-52,309-310, citing Picatrix II:xii, and Bruno’s Opere latine III:37-54,60, where he is utilizing the Pimander and Asclepius [Lógos Téleios] of the Corpus Hermeticum).

Do you have some examples of telestial objects as the moon is said to be?

Thanks,
Jim

[JLHPROF]

12 minutes ago, theplains said:

What other 'telestial' bodies like the moon are there?

Jim

Did you just miss my point?

The moon isn't Telestial.  It represents the Terrestrial kingdom because it emits light between the Sun (celestial) and the Stars (telestial) to our vision.

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

Do you have some examples of telestial objects as the moon is said to be?

........................

Why would you associate it with the moon?  Have a look at Kevin Barney, https://bycommonconsent.com/2010/01/27/the-etymology-of-telestial/ .

[theplains]

On 26/10/2017 at 1:26 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

Why would you associate it with the moon?  Have a look at Kevin Barney, https://bycommonconsent.com/2010/01/27/the-etymology-of-telestial/ .

My mistake.  What examples of terrestrial objects like the moon are there?

Jim

[theplains]

On 25/10/2017 at 9:33 PM, JLHPROF said:

Did you just miss my point?

The moon isn't Telestial.  It represents the Terrestrial kingdom because it emits light between the Sun (celestial) and the Stars (telestial) to our vision.

My mistake.  What examples of terrestrial objects like the moon are there?

Jim

[thesometimesaint]

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse?

It is a metaphor. Just like Jesus was not a hen. But it is claimed he said this. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!".

 

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

My mistake.  What examples of terrestrial objects like the moon are there?

Jim

This a simple matter of a comparative metaphor.  The moon merely suggests the comparative brightness of the terrestrial glory, as the sun suggests the brightness of the celestial, and the stars the brightness of the telestial glory.  We mustn't take the metaphor too far.  Otherwise we do violence to Paul's comparison in 1 Cor 15:41.  He is, after all, trying to describe three heavenly glories, which are actually indescribable in human terms.  Bear in mind his own claim to have experienced the third heaven (2 Cor 12:2).  Do you believe and accept Paul's testimony, Jim?

[theplains]

On 28/10/2017 at 12:36 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Bear in mind his own claim to have experienced the third heaven (2 Cor 12:2).  Do you believe and accept Paul's testimony, Jim?

Yes.

[JLHPROF]

35 minutes ago, theplains said:

Yes.

So according to Paul there were three heavens and three glories of resurrected beings.
This really isn't complicated.

• 2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
• I Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
  40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
  41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
  42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Even if you think Paul isn't referring to the three degrees of glory, it's impossible in any reading I can see to say that there aren't different levels of glory in the resurrection.
"One star differeth from another star in glory.  So also is the resurrection of the dead."  I don't see how that can be any clearer.