JLHPROF Posted February 20, 2017 Author Posted February 20, 2017 2 hours ago, JarMan said: I have a hard time understanding the apostasy in light of Matthew 16:18 where Christ says he is building his church on a rock. Regardless of whether that rock is Peter himself or revelation or something else, wouldn't it have been more accurate to say he was building his church upon sand? Or if the church exists or fails based on keys, shouldn't he have said the rock was the keys? The appointed successor Peter. Revelation. The keys of priesthood. The Church required all 3 to continue to exist. D&C 132 tells us that there is only one man on earth at a time anointed and appointed. Revelation makes that man a prophet, seer, and revelator. The keys and ordination makes that man the legal administrator of the ordinances. You can't separate them That's like saying what was necessary for the atonement? 1. The sinless perfect Christ 2. The taking on of our sins in Gethsemane 3. The sacrifice and shedding of blood on Calvary. It's all 3. We are going back and forth as to whether the loss of keys ended revelation or the lack of revelation caused the keys to be taken. But if any of the requirements are missing it's like pulling on a thread. The whole thing unravels. If the Church today lost revelation, the ordinances and the authority to give them, or a person chosen and appointed by God to receive the revelation/administer the ordinances are missing the whole thing can collapse.
JarMan Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 My point is simply that Christ tells us that his church is built upon a rock and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it - and then according to the LDS narrative - the gates of hell end up prevailing against it in fairly short order. It turns out the rock of succession/revelation/keys (or whatever you think the rock was) was a foundation of sand.
JLHPROF Posted February 20, 2017 Author Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, JarMan said: My point is simply that Christ tells us that his church is built upon a rock and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it - and then according to the LDS narrative - the gates of hell end up prevailing against it in fairly short order. It turns out the rock of succession/revelation/keys (or whatever you think the rock was) was a foundation of sand. That depends which "Church" you think he was referring to. Christ's Church has several meanings after all and one has never been prevailed against. Edited February 20, 2017 by JLHPROF
CV75 Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 2 hours ago, JarMan said: My point is simply that Christ tells us that his church is built upon a rock and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it - and then according to the LDS narrative - the gates of hell end up prevailing against it in fairly short order. It turns out the rock of succession/revelation/keys (or whatever you think the rock was) was a foundation of sand. Not in the long term or the big picture. Jesus was killed after living only 33 years, but He overcame sin and death for everyone for all eternity. 1
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