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"Major Problems with Mormonism"

Atheist Mormon

By Atheist Mormon
in General Discussions

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UtahTexan Mentor

UtahTexan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Reality is very much "knowable" . As I've wrote, this guy, (sorry to say) swims in Deepak Chopra's esoteric realms (one of his popular speakers, Deepak Chopra Foundation).

I no interest to waste with these type of hypoteses, because it delivers nothing substantial..... It's all talk....Fine & dandy....What can we do with it? 

 

So, am I to assume you do not believe in "love"?  You do not "love" anyone?  That is sad.

2
UtahTexan Mentor

UtahTexan

Posted
Posted

I just supposed you do not believe in love.  You cannot see it.  You cannot prove it exists.  You cannot touch it.  You cannot measure it.   By your definitions, it cannot exist.  So, I was just curious.  Is it difficult to live without love?

1
Atheist Mormon Mentor

Atheist Mormon

Posted
  • Author
Posted
24 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

I just supposed you do not believe in love.  You cannot see it.  You cannot prove it exists.  You cannot touch it.  You cannot measure it.   By your definitions, it cannot exist.  So, I was just curious.  Is it difficult to live without love?

I know the love exists, because I experienced myself, it is an emotion...How anyone can see love? you can see someone expressing it....You are assuming stuff, it is not good...assumptions are bad if they are not on the money...

I'm still puzzled by how you inferred this? Should I also infer along the same lines that God hates Jews & my ancestors when He didn't move his pinkie finger to save them? ( we are talking about roughly 8 million people), I shall remind you I didn't kill anyone or shafted (out of their money or their wife) anyone so far. 

UtahTexan Mentor

UtahTexan

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

I know the love exists, because I experienced myself, it is an emotion...How anyone can see love? you can see someone expressing it....You are assuming stuff, it is not good...assumptions are bad if they are not on the money...

I'm still puzzled by how you inferred this? Should I also infer along the same lines that God hates Jews & my ancestors when He didn't move his pinkie finger to save them? ( we are talking about roughly 8 million people), I shall remind you I didn't kill anyone or shafted (out of their money or their wife) anyone so far. 

So then, God exists.  I have experienced God.  Thanks.  I now better understand you.

Free Will is what it is.  The Jews killed were on humans, not God.  As for stealing money and/or wives, I do not get your reference.

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Atheist Mormon Mentor

Atheist Mormon

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

So then, God exists.  I have experienced God.  Thanks.  I now better understand you.

Free Will is what it is.  The Jews killed were on humans, not God.  As for stealing money and/or wives, I do not get your reference.

Not even close.....Did you read what I wrote? Love is an emotion people can experience....When you explain God along the same way, it might work for you but it never worked for me because I do find the premise misleading... As for you defending the indefensible, "The Jews killed were on humans, not God." here we have perfect opportunity for God to save his people, and what you say..."People killed them not God...." you & I agree on this because he never existed, otherwise He would raise his hand to protect his people as he did in ancient times. 

One more thing about love, it comes from your own brain, like it did my own...it is a biological emotion....so is belief in God, even though it is a very misleading notion it helps humans to to survive....

Teancum Grand Master

Teancum

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CountryBoy said:

I just supposed you do not believe in love.  You cannot see it.  You cannot prove it exists.  You cannot touch it.  You cannot measure it.   By your definitions, it cannot exist.  So, I was just curious.  Is it difficult to live without love?

Love does not make assertions about the existence of the universe, this world, how life began, what one must do for salvation and so on with little to know way to test such claims empirically. 

Love is a human emotion and impacts how we act as do other human emotions. The evidence of love is seen by how we behave.   Same with other emotions. 

It seems a silly argument to make that because you can't physically see love it is the same as not being able to physically see God.  If o claimed love created to Universe you may have a good argument. 

Teancum Grand Master

Teancum

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

So then, God exists.  I have experienced God.  Thanks.  I now better understand you.

Free Will is what it is.  The Jews killed were on humans, not God.  As for stealing money and/or wives, I do not get your reference.

So the free will of those who murdered all the Jewish people was more important than the free will of those who lost their free will by being murdered?

why is free will seemingly God's prime directive?

UtahTexan Mentor

UtahTexan

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Not even close.....Did you read what I wrote? Love is an emotion people can experience....When you explain God along the same way, it might work for you but it never worked for me because I do find the premise misleading... As for you defending the indefensible, "The Jews killed were on humans, not God." here we have perfect opportunity for God to save his people, and what you say..."People killed them not God...." you & I agree on this because he never existed, otherwise He would raise his hand to protect his people as he did in ancient times. 

One more thing about love, it comes from your own brain, like it did my own...it is a biological emotion....so is belief in God, even though it is a very misleading notion it helps humans to to survive....

Nice try.  You pick and choose what you will accept based on what YOU feel.  Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.  

You can;t prove love exists.  Your feelings are just that...silly unprovable feelings.

1
UtahTexan Mentor

UtahTexan

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Love does not make assertions about the existence of the universe, this world, how life began, what one must do for salvation and so on with little to know way to test such claims empirically. 

Love is a human emotion and impacts how we act as do other human emotions. The evidence of love is seen by how we behave.   Same with other emotions. 

It seems a silly argument to make that because you can't physically see love it is the same as not being able to physically see God.  If o claimed love created to Universe you may have a good argument. 

Ah....you define what feelings can prove and what they can't?  Love makes its own silly assertions.....but...when one can pick and choose, it helps them justify.

Edited by CountryBoy
UtahTexan Mentor

UtahTexan

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Teancum said:

So the free will of those who murdered all the Jewish people was more important than the free will of those who lost their free will by being murdered?

why is free will seemingly God's prime directive?

Dunno....why do people kill in the name of love?

Atheist Mormon Mentor

Atheist Mormon

Posted
  • Author
Posted
9 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

Dunno....why do people kill in the name of love?

Country Boy, here our discussion is not about people like you & I, I know for a fact we have this innate propensity to kill...

But God?  He does it because we created God in our own image.....(not other way around)

Atheist Mormon Mentor

Atheist Mormon

Posted
  • Author
Posted
14 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

Nice try.  You pick and choose what you will accept based on what YOU feel.  Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.  

You can;t prove love exists.  Your feelings are just that...silly unprovable feelings.

Hey, I have no intention of wasting my time love exists or not, the only thing I can vouch for is God doesn't exist...

youre right "silly unprovable feelings...."

Show me the money! (no, better show me some miracles!)

UtahTexan Mentor

UtahTexan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Country Boy, here our discussion is not about people like you & I, I know for a fact we have this innate propensity to kill...

But God?  He does it because we created God in our own image.....(not other way around)

So YOU believe...but we have already established that you pick and choose what silly ideas you cannot prove but choose to believe.  I get that.  You have lost your credibility because you choose to believe in love though you cannot see it, prove it, or anything else.  

Your love is silly and a waste of time.  You are not honest at all when you express love it is a sham.  You cannot prove otherwise.

UtahTexan Mentor

UtahTexan

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Hey, I have no intention of wasting my time love exists or not, the only thing I can vouch for is God doesn't exist...

youre right "silly unprovable feelings...."

Show me the money! (no, better show me some miracles!)

Of course....because you know your silly love is a hoax.  And you vouching for anything is laughable.  You choose to believe in something silly and vouch for something else you cannot prove?

How ridiculous!

Miracles?  Plenty of them.  Daily.  The fact you exist is one of them.  But...I am sure you believe we are all just accidents.

Teancum Grand Master

Teancum

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, CountryBoy said:

Ah....you define what feelings can prove and what they can't?  Love makes its own silly assertions.....but...when one can pick and choose, it helps them justify.

So do we claim the things about Love that we claim about God?

Edited by Teancum
UtahTexan Mentor

UtahTexan

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Teancum said:

So does we claim the things about Love that we claim about God?

Ah....so you need to claim the same things since both love and God are stupid hoaxes?  Interesting

mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Not even close.....Did you read what I wrote? Love is an emotion people can experience....When you explain God along the same way, it might work for you but it never worked for me because I do find the premise misleading... As for you defending the indefensible, "The Jews killed were on humans, not God." here we have perfect opportunity for God to save his people, and what you say..."People killed them not God...." you & I agree on this because he never existed, otherwise He would raise his hand to protect his people as he did in ancient times. 

One more thing about love, it comes from your own brain, like it did my own...it is a biological emotion....so is belief in God, even though it is a very misleading notion it helps humans to to survive....

And what exactly does NOT come from your brain that you know?

If it's NOT in your brain how do you know it?

The entire point Hoffman was making, and nearly all philosophers today as postmodernists, to put it in terms you will understand, is that all reality as you see it comes from your own brain, and cannot be separated from emotion.  

Reality itself is mixed with emotion as made clear in your own  emotional need to separate yourself from emotion.  You will not even see what is obvious.

Perhaps it is linked to your need to boast about how much money you have, and how stupid we are.

The belief that love, like God, and moral rules, which are all similar, are irrational because they are not scientific, serves perhaps for you, an emotional need,  and so you subscribe to the false idea that emotion and reason can be separated. For some reason you seem to want to believe that only science can explore reality.

Just watch the Nightly News and you will know there is no such thing as an objective opinion. Understand clearly the politics of scientific funding and you will know there is no such thing as an objective scientific experiment. Understand the Copenhagen interpretation and you will understand that there is no such thing as an objective observation. Understand Hoffman and the philosophers, and you will understand that there is no such thing as objective reality.

Now I am sure you will say something about driving over a cliff prove objective reality or some such nonsense.

All it proves is that you will have a subjective experience of driving over a cliff  and I still will have no idea what your subjective and therefore non scientific experience was.

I may also see the cliff but have enough emotional intelligence not to drive over it.

The existence of a cliff has nothing to do with our emotional understanding of what it is subjectively. If one has a subjective emotional need to commit suicide perhaps the cliff will be attractive.

Another comment I often get is yes but you still can't walk through walls. Of course this is true but that misses the point completely. The fact that I perceived the wall as a wall and do not even try to walk through it shows that there are as rorty's says in the quote in my signature that there are causes independent of the human mind. How we perceive those causes however is always up to the human mind and that always includes emotion.

1
Atheist Mormon Mentor

Atheist Mormon

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, CountryBoy said:

 

Miracles?  Plenty of them.  Daily.  The fact you exist is one of them.  But...I am sure you believe we are all just accidents.

Yes we are accidents of supernovas....how funny...Total accident....The sad thing is you pay an allegiance to an invisible god....worse you pay part of your earning to someone who enjoys......

mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Yes we are accidents of supernovas....how funny...Total accident....The sad thing is you pay an allegiance to an invisible god....worse you pay part of your earning to someone who enjoys......

There you go again- the unforgivable sin- giving away Earnings to something YOU do not understand.

Earnings, the only One True God.

And you believe in invisible love and moral feelings as a real force in your life, the existence of which cannot be seen or measured.  Money gives you Peace, when it can be here today and gone tomorrow.

 Inconsistent and kind of sad really

 

 

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