Plan Of Salvation Is Eternal

[MDalby]

I am looking for some references that substantiate that the Plan of Salvation is the same throughout all eternity.  That there is only one Plan of Salvation.  There is not another plan that works better in another galaxy in some distant creation.  Not just with our God and his creations but throughout all eternity. 

 

Can someone post some additional references to what I have below?

 

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 13 And Aaron did expound unto him the scriptures from the creation of Adam, laying the fall of man before him, and their carnal state and also the plan of redemption, which was prepared from the foundation of the world, through Christ, for all whosoever would believe on his name.

(Alma 22:13)

 

Now taking it for granted that the scriptures say what they mean, and mean what they say, we have sufficient grounds to go on and prove from the Bible that the gospel has always been the same; the ordinances to fulfil its requirements, the same; and the officers to officiate, the same; and the signs and fruits resulting from the promises, the same.

(Baptism,” an editorial published in Times and Seasons, Sept. 1, 1842, pp. 904–5; punctuation modernized; italics deleted; Joseph Smith was the editor of the periodical.)

 

[God] set the ordinances to be the same forever and ever, and set Adam to watch over them, to reveal them from heaven to man, or to send angels to reveal them. ‘Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?’ (Hebrews 1:14)

(Joseph Smith, HC, 4:207–9)

 

Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles.

(Joseph Smith, TPJS, 308)

 

The Prophet Joseph noted, “we have sufficient grounds to go on and prove from the Bible that the gospel has always been the same; the ordinances to fulfill its requirements, the same, and the officers to officiate, the same; and the signs and fruits resulting from the promises, the same.” He continued with an illustration of this principle: “Therefore, as Noah was a preacher of righteousness he must have been baptized and ordained to the priesthood by the laying on of the hands.”3 In short, the Lord “set the ordinances to be the same forever and ever.”4 That is, “Ordinances, instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles.

3 Teachings, 264; Times and Seasons, 6 vols. (Nauvoo, IL: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1839-46), 3:904.

4 Teachings, 168; History of the Church 4:208.

5 Teachings, 308; History of the Church 5:423.

Robert Millet, Joseph Smith and Christ’s Eternal Gospel, Devotional or Speech given at Brigham Young University-Hawaii, November 13, 2012)

 

We are safe in saying that from the day that Adam was created and placed in the Garden of Eden to this day, the plan of salvation and the revelations of the will of God to man are unchanged, although mankind have not for many ages been favored therewith, in consequence of apostasy and wickedness. There is no evidence to be found in the Bible that the Gospel should be one thing in the days of the Israelites, another in the days of Christ and his Apostles, and another in the 19th Century, but, on the contrary, we are instructed that God is the same in every age, and that his plan of saving his children is the same…. The plan of salvation is one, from the beginning of the world to the end thereof. 

(Brigham Young, JD, 10:324)

 

Now, any man acquainted with the Scriptures can clearly understand that there is but one true Gospel. There never was but one Gospel. Whenever that Gospel has been upon the earth it has been the same in every dispensation. The ordinances of the Gospel have never been changed from the days of Adam to the present time, and never will be to the end of time. While there were many sects and parties in existence in the early times, Jesus gave his disciples to understand that there was but one Gospel. He told them what it was. He declared unto them its ordinances. 

(Wilford Woodruff, JD, 24:239–40)

 

We know that the plan of salvation is always and everlastingly the same; that obedience to the same laws always brings the same reward; that the gospel laws have not changed from the day of Adam to the present; and that always and everlastingly all things pertaining to salvation center in Christ. 

(Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah, p. 4)

 

Doctrines and principles are the same under all circumstances. Truth is eternal. The principles of the everlasting gospel do not vary; they are the same in all ages and among all people. The Lord does not walk in crooked paths, nor vary from that which he hath said, nor alter the course in which men must walk to return to that far-off home whence they came. All men, in all ages, in all parts of our planet, must believe and obey the same doctrines and ordinances to gain salvation. 

(Bruce R. McConkie, Mortal Messiah, 1:11-12)

[MDalby]

The references I have pertain to all the dispensations of this world only.  I am looking for references to the same plan in all worlds.  That God has the same Plan of Salvation that has been in existence in all eternity.

[CV75]

The references I have pertain to all the dispensations of this world only.  I am looking for references to the same plan in all worlds.  That God has the same Plan of Salvation that has been in existence in all eternity.

http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/search?type=words&last=worlds&help=&wo=checked&search=worlds&iw=scriptures&tx=checked&hw=checked&sw=checked&bw=1&anonymous_element_1_changed=

[JLHPROF]

" Sin is upon every earth that ever was created, and if it was not so, I would like some philosophers to let us know how people can be exalted to become sons of God, and enjoy a fulness of glory with the Redeemer. Consequently every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter; and every earth, and the people thereof, in their turn and time, receive all that we receive, and pass through all the ordeals that we are passing through."  - Brigham Young JD 14:72

 

"Attended conference, a very interesting conference, for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus, that Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized and that Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet, or that received tabernacles on this planet, consequently we are brother and sisters, and that Adam was God, or Eternal Father" - Joseph Lee Robinson Journal, 6-8 Oct. 1854

 

"….I say he (Adam) was not made of the dust of the ground of this earth, but he was made of the dust of the earth where he lived, where he honored his calling, believed in his Savior, or elder brother, and by his faithfulness, was redeemed, and got a glorious resurrection"  Brigham Young

 

 

"And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient." Moses 5:11
 

[MDalby]

http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/search?type=words&last=worlds&help=&wo=checked&search=worlds&iw=scriptures&tx=checked&hw=checked&sw=checked&bw=1&anonymous_element_1_changed=

 

CV75,

 

Thanks for the post but I don't see anything that would indicate that the very same Plan of Salvation has been used throughout all eternity.

[MDalby]

" Sin is upon every earth that ever was created, and if it was not so, I would like some philosophers to let us know how people can be exalted to become sons of God, and enjoy a fulness of glory with the Redeemer. Consequently every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter; and every earth, and the people thereof, in their turn and time, receive all that we receive, and pass through all the ordeals that we are passing through."  - Brigham Young JD 14:72

 

"Attended conference, a very interesting conference, for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus, that Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized and that Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet, or that received tabernacles on this planet, consequently we are brother and sisters, and that Adam was God, or Eternal Father" - Joseph Lee Robinson Journal, 6-8 Oct. 1854

 

"….I say he (Adam) was not made of the dust of the ground of this earth, but he was made of the dust of the earth where he lived, where he honored his calling, believed in his Savior, or elder brother, and by his faithfulness, was redeemed, and got a glorious resurrection"  Brigham Young

 

 

"And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient." Moses 5:11

 

 

Thanks JLHPROF

 

[19]

And I heard a great voice bearing record from heav'n, 

He's the Saviour and only begotten of God; 

By him, of him, and through him, the worlds were all made, 

Even all that career in the heavens so broad.

 

[20]

Whose inhabitants, too, from the first to the last, 

Are sav'd by the very same Saviour of ours; 

And, of course, are begotten God's daughters and sons 

By the very same truths and the very same powers.

(Joseph Smith, The Vision, From Joseph Smith to W. W. Phelps, Esq.  February 1, 1843 issue of Times and Seasons a poem signed Joseph Smith)

[janderich]

Thanks JLHPROF

 

[19]

And I heard a great voice bearing record from heav'n, 

He's the Saviour and only begotten of God; 

By him, of him, and through him, the worlds were all made, 

Even all that career in the heavens so broad.

 

[20]

Whose inhabitants, too, from the first to the last, 

Are sav'd by the very same Saviour of ours; 

And, of course, are begotten God's daughters and sons 

By the very same truths and the very same powers.

(Joseph Smith, The Vision, From Joseph Smith to W. W. Phelps, Esq.  February 1, 1843 issue of Times and Seasons a poem signed Joseph Smith)

I think there is good evidence to believe this poem was not written by Joseph Smith but by W.W. Phelps. See Joseph Smith, W. W. Phelps, and the Poetic Paraphrase of "The Vision" by Michael Hicks: http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/mormonhistory/vol20/iss2/1/.

Here is a summary of some of the main points in the article:

– The poem is not in Joseph’s writing style and doesn’t use the words and visuals that characterized Joseph’s writing — it is in Phelps’ style and does use his style and preferred phrases.

 

– We have no record of Joseph ever writing other poetry (some short near-poetry maybe but no poetry…); W.W. Phelps was, however, a prolific folk poet and lyricist.

– The practice of ghost writing for Joseph Smith had become quite common by the 1840s. Hicks said “During the last two years of his life, Joseph increasingly attached his name to documents written largely by others. As fame, legal battles, and the growing population of the Church threatened to drain all of his time, literary delegation became crucial. The presence of his name on any document from the last years is not an answer but a question.” (Pg 68) There are several other known examples of Joseph’s name being attached to pieces he didn’t write. Hicks later said “During the 1840s, W.W. Phelps was Joseph’s most prolific ghost writer” (Pg 74)

– At 312 lines it is the longest poem ever published in Times and Seasons. It is almost inconceivable that in 1842 Joseph could have carved out the many hours that such a poetic paraphrase would have required.

– Phelps reportedly desired a closer personal relationship with the prophet and would write unsolicited tributes and songs and poems and present them to the prophet in attempts to impress him in those days.

– The issue of Times and Seasons in which the poetic paraphrase was published included “(1) an essay entitled “Ancient Poetry”, credited to the editor, John Taylor; (2) Phelps’s four-stanza poem labeled “From W.W. Phelps to Joseph Smith: The Prophet” titled… “Go With Me”” and (3) the 312-line poem in question. (Pg 70) Hicks continued “It [the long poem] was in some respects a song adaptation: it picked up where “Go With Me” left off, continuing the theme in the same dactylic meter” (Pg 71)

– The poem speaks in first person (always “I”) whereas the actual revelation scrupulously speaks of “we” (Joseph and Sidney Rigdon) which is in harmony with Joseph”s strong feelings about the law of witnesses.

– The Taylor essay prefacing the poetic paraphrase refers to its author only as “our poet”

 

(http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2006/10/poetic-paraphrase-of-the-vision/304/)

[CV75]

CV75,

 

Thanks for the post but I don't see anything that would indicate that the very same Plan of Salvation has been used throughout all eternity.

I see it in the following examples:

 

by ^ahim, and through him, and of him, the ^bworlds are and were created, and the ^cinhabitants thereof are begotten ^dsons and daughters unto God.

 

And ^aworlds without number have I ^bcreated; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the ^cSon I ^dcreated them, which is mine ^eOnly Begotten.

 

The ^alight and the Redeemer of the world; the Spirit of truth, who came into the world, because the world was made by him, and in him was the life of men and the light of men.

The worlds were ^amade by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him.

 

That He created worlds without number is an indicator of the eternal nature of His work; that the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God and in Hi is their life and light indicate that the same plan of salvation applies to those of other worlds.

[stemelbow]

King Follet Discourse:

What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.

[JLHPROF]

King Follet Discourse:

What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.

 

 

I love this quote.  I believe this quote.

I have never been sure that it means that the Father was once a Savior on a previous earth though.  I believe that it means the Savior had power to lay down his life and take it up again, and as Joseph said - the Father also did this in a manner (makes me think of Adam-God  )

 

Still, this is a better scriptural argument for the Father being a Savior than the "I can do nothing except that which I see my Father do" argument, which always makes me ask how Christ who wasn't even a premortal spirit yet could have seen the Father during the Father's mortal life.

[MDalby]

I think there is good evidence to believe this poem was not written by Joseph Smith but by W.W. Phelps. See Joseph Smith, W. W. Phelps, and the Poetic Paraphrase of "The Vision" by Michael Hicks: http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/mormonhistory/vol20/iss2/1/.

Here is a summary of some of the main points in the article:

 

I think most everyone agrees that Joseph Smith did not write the response himself.  The point is, did he endorse what was written for him?

[MDalby]

Still, this is a better scriptural argument for the Father being a Savior than the "I can do nothing except that which I see my Father do" argument, which always makes me ask how Christ who wasn't even a premortal spirit yet could have seen the Father during the Father's mortal life.

 

Does the word "see" have to reflect real time observation that would require Christ to witness real time the Father's actions? 

[JLHPROF]

Does the word "see" have to reflect real time observation that would require Christ to witness real time the Father's actions? 

 

Oh, the eternal version of family movie night.  Sounds fun.

[MDalby]

Oh, the eternal version of family movie night.  Sounds fun.

 

I "see" no reason why Christ had to actually see the Father's actions real time.  

 

 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

(John 8:28)

Edited October 21, 2015 by MDalby

[JLHPROF]

I "see" no reason why Christ had to actually see the Father's actions real time.  

 

 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

(John 8:28)

 

Actually John 5:19 is the scripture in question -

¹⁹ Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

[MDalby]

Actually John 5:19 is the scripture in question -

¹⁹ Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

 

I knew that was the scripture in question.  But I also see that the two scriptures may reflect the same thing.

[janderich]

I think most everyone agrees that Joseph Smith did not write the response himself.  The point is, did he endorse what was written for him?

I doubt anyone can answer such a question.

[MDalby]

I doubt anyone can answer such a question.

 

The Prophet Joseph did say that he would be responsible for anything in the Times and Seasons that had his signature.

 

This paper commences my editorial career, I alone stand responsible for it, and shall do for all papers having my signature henceforward. I am not responsible for the  publication, or arrangement of the former paper; the matter did not come under my supervision.

JOSEPH SMITH.

 

Times and Seasons, 1 March 1842

 

 

• Joseph issued a statement that he would be responsible as the editor of the Times and Seasons with anything that had his signature starting March 1842.
• A Vision was published in Feb. 1843, Times and Seasons 4:82-85, with the signature of Joseph Smith.