Book Of Mormon Land In Baja

[PeterPear]

Hi Peter,

 

During the first ~400 years in the Book of Mormon there are very few references that give us specifics about the scale of the land other the fact that Jacob says that they "are upon an isle of the sea" (2 Nephi 10:20).  Of course, that verse is interpreted differently by different people, but it is easy to see how someone living in Baja, and particularly in the cape region of Baja, might refer to their land as an "isle of the sea".

 

Somewhere around ~200 BC the Nephites traveled north, discovered the Mulekites in Zarahemla, and began integrating their societies together.  Before they discovered Zarahemla and the Mulekites, the Book of Mormon gives no indication that the Nephites had any knowledge of the narrow neck or any other lands north of Zarahemla.  For the next ~75 years the Book of Mormon continues to tell us very little about the physical layout and scale of the lands around and north of Zarahemla. 

 

Although it is reasonable to assume that the Nephites practiced agriculture when they reached Zarahemla ~200 BC, there is no reference to the practice until about the time that the agricultural peoples of Alma and Limhi joined the people in Zarahemla ~121 BC, at which point the text tells us that King Mosiah "caused" his people to till the earth (Mosiah 6:7).

 

In the storyline that follows these events, the text describes a population expansion in the land of Zarahemla and the surrounding lands.  It is within this context of a population expansion that the text starts to tell us about the lands of Bountiful and Desolation and the narrow neck.  There are numerous references to seas on the east and west in relation not only to the land of Zarahemla, but also in relation to the land of Nephi which includes the lands the Nephites had inhabited during the ~400 years before they joined the Mulekites in Zarahemla.  Notice the numerous references to seashores in the description of those original Nephite lands:

 

"And it came to pass that the king sent a proclamation throughout all the land, amongst all his people who were in all his land, who were in all the regions round about, which was bordering even to the sea, on the east and on the west, and which was divided from the land of Zarahemla by a narrow strip of wilderness, which ran from the sea east even to the sea west, and round about on the borders of the seashore, and the borders of the wilderness which was on the north by the land of Zarahemla, through the borders of Manti, by the head of the river Sidon, running from the east towards the west—and thus were the Lamanites and the Nephites divided.  Now, the more idle part of the Lamanites lived in the wilderness, and dwelt in tents; and they were spread through the wilderness on the west, in the land of Nephi; yea, and also on the west of the land of Zarahemla, in the borders by the seashore, and on the west in the land of Nephi, in the place of their fathers’ first inheritance, and thus bordering along by the seashore.  And also there were many Lamanites on the east by the seashore, whither the Nephites had driven them. And thus the Nephites were nearly surrounded by the Lamanites; nevertheless the Nephites had taken possession of all the northern parts of the land bordering on the wilderness, at the head of the river Sidon, from the east to the west, round about on the wilderness side; on the north, even until they came to the land which they called Bountiful." (Alma 22:27-29)

 

But there are more indications that the land existed in proximity to seashores on both the east and the west.  The Baja peninsula fits those descriptions very naturally and the timing of the references to the narrow neck in the Book of Mormon storyline also make a lot of sense when you consider them in relation to the peninsula's geography.

 

 

Hi BofMModel,

 

Well thought out message. Thank you.

 

 

But there are many indications in the Book of Mormon about the scale of the land. Here are four:

 

1. Nephites were in a separate area from the Mulekites (who arrived about the same time as Lehi) and the Lamanites (who arrived at the same time as Lehi) - for hundreds of years - thus a big area

 

2. Nephite language remained the same due to Brass Plates, Mulekite language corrupted due to lack of records-Nephites taught them their language, the Lamanite language corrupted due to lack of records - until the Amulonites who were Nephite dissenters from King Noah, taught the Lamanites the Nephite language - indicates a big area as these 3 groups did not interact for hundreds of years; thus the language corruption.

 

3. The Prophet Ether left his 24-gold plates out in the open after the destruction of the Jaredite Nation which occurred shortly before the people of Mulek and Lehi arrived (the last Jaredite who lived with Mulek for 9 moons). This indicates a very large land area devoid of people therefore the Prophet Ether did not fear his 24-gold plates would be destroyed by anyone. (Contrast this with Moroni burying his gold plates to protect them from Lamanites.)

 

4. These 24-plates of Ether were discovered hundreds of years later by Nephites who left the Land of Nephi two generations removed from the Land of Zarahemla from which their fathers left; the plates were not discovered by Mulekites who lived nearer to the land northward than Nephites living in the Land of Nephi; this also indicates a very large land area.

 

Study the Book of Mormon more thoroughly. There's more to it than a narrow neck of land.

 

I appreciate the rest of your message and quoting scripture.

Edited August 1, 2015 by PeterPear

[sunstoned]

Hi sunstoned,

 

That's a pretty broad question.  Archaeological and anthropological correlations are not the biggest strengths of the model, but there are some fun tidbits:

 

Thank you for writing up and posting this information. It is very interesting.

[bofmmodel]

1. Nephites were in a separate area from the Mulekites (who arrived about the same time as Lehi) and the Lamanites (who arrived at the same time as Lehi) - for hundreds of years - thus a big area

 

 

Yes.  It does inticate large north/south distances but doesn't relate to the original question of the "narrowness" of the land before ~91 BC.

 

2. Nephite language remained the same due to Brass Plates, Mulekite language corrupted due to lack of records-Nephites taught them their language, the Lamanite language corrupted due to lack of records - until the Amulonites who were Nephite dissenters from King Noah, taught the Lamanites the Nephite language - indicates a big area as these 3 groups did not interact for hundreds of years; thus the language corruption.

 

The Book of Mormon documents the "corruption" of the Mulekite language, but not the Lamanite language.  The reference in Mosiah 24:4 to the Amulonites teaching "the language of Nephi" to the Lamanites may indicate corruption of the Lamanite language, but to argue that no Lamanites lived near the city of Nephi is certainly not correct.  In any case, the distances between these groups can all be accounted for with north/south distances and do not indicate anything about the "narrowness" of the land...which is the question you asked me to address.

 

3. The Prophet Ether left his 24-gold plates out in the open after the destruction of the Jaredite Nation which occurred shortly before the people of Mulek and Lehi arrived (the last Jaredite who lived with Mulek for 9 moons). This indicates a very large land area devoid of people therefore the Prophet Ether did not fear his 24-gold plates would be destroyed by anyone. (Contrast this with Moroni burying his gold plates to protect them from Lamanites.)

 

Whether or not the destruction of the Jaredites occurred before the arrival of Lehi's or Mulek's party is speculative.  We know that Mulek's party originally landed in or near Jaredite lands then migrated to Zarahemla, and in a different part of the text we learn that Coriantumr was "discovered by the people of Zarahemla", but that "discovery" did not necessarily happen right when the Mulekites arrived.  Your assumption that the Jaredites were destroyed before the arrival of the Mulekites is not unreasonable, but it is also not certain.

 

Ether did not leave his 24 gold plates "out in the open", he "he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them" (Ether 15:33).

 

Most of these points detract from what you're trying to say which is that a great distance separated the Nephites, Lamanites, and Mulekites from the Jaredits, which is a point I agree with, but this is another example of great distances north/south so it doesn't really relate to your original question about the "narrowness" of the land.

 

4. These 24-plates of Ether were discovered hundreds of years later by Nephites who left the Land of Nephi two generations removed from the Land of Zarahemla from which their fathers left; the plates were not discovered by Mulekites who lived nearer to the land northward than Nephites living in the Land of Nephi; this also indicates a very large land area.

 

This seems to be basically the same point as #3, so I believe I've already addressed it.

 

In your original post, you asked about the east/west "narrowness" of the land, but you took my answers and responded with arguments that relate primarily/entirely to north/south distances.  I'm happy to discuss north/south distances if that's the new topic, but snarky instructions for me to "Study the Book of Mormon more thoroughly" seem premature since you're changing the subject.  In any case, studying the Book of Mormon more thoroughly is never a bad idea, but let's stay on-topic a little better than this please.

[canard78]

Model, welcome to the board. I think no one will complain as long as you thoughtfully engage others' comments. We have seen posters who think "that's laughable" as the only response needed not lasting too long.

And when you get to be able to post your own thread (25 posts), focusing on one or two topics at a time rather than creating a dozen is prudent as well.

Hmm... I wonder who you might be talking about

[bofmmodel]

One thing in the Book of Mormon that doesn't seem to make sense is why Nephites would try to escape from the Lamanites by fleeing southward from Cumorah:

 

"all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen" (Mormon 6:15)

 

Baja offers an explanation for this that makes sense.  Nephites could flee south to flee AWAY from their enemies:

 

[Rajah Manchou]

One thing in the Book of Mormon that doesn't seem to make sense is why Nephites would try to escape from the Lamanites by fleeing southward from Cumorah:

 

"all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen" (Mormon 6:15)

 

Baja offers an explanation for this that makes sense.  Nephites could flee south to flee AWAY from their enemies:

That's interesting. Any thoughts on why the Nephites wouldn't have just continued north?

Only thing I can think of is that the land north was occupied by unfriendlies, or that they really were on an island.

[piccione]

Those interested in reading the book involving the Translation of the Book of Mormon Caractors Document that I have just completed, I have set up a website where it can be accessed.www.bookofmormoncaractorstranslation.com I will be adding the Table of Contents and Index sometime next week, but the book is complete. If you have any comments or suggestions I would appreciate any feedback. As you read the analysis, you will see the Mesoamerican elements in the document. The electronic version of the book is free, when published the hard copy will be available at cost.

Also on that website is a link for free access to a book I published earlier this year entitled The Geology of the Book of Mormon which has been discussed in this chain.  The Caractors document actually has information that helps identify the location of the Book of Mormon, and the Geology book does the same.