Qm378 Found In American Indian Gene Pool

[Bobbieaware]

Just depends on what you read/believe.

In articles I have read they are described as proselytes from the Caspian Sea area during the Middle Ages, who migrated west and north into Europe.

Nothing to do with Abraham or Judah/Benjamin.

I have just completed some online research concerning the genetic history of the Ashkenazi Jews and it appears what you believe concerning the origins of the Ashkenazis has been discredited by recent DNAz investigative studies. More and more research is proving the Askenazis are the descendants of ancient Hebrews. Edited June 25, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[PeterPear]

Q-M378 (M378) — It is widely distributed in Europe, South Asia, West and East Asia. It is found among samples of Hazaras and Sindhis.[28] It is also found in the Mongols, the Japanese people and the Uyghurs of North-Western China in two separate groups.[45] The Q-M378 subclade and specifically its Q-L245 subbranch is speculated to be the branch to which Q-M242 men in European Jewish Diaspora populations belong.[30][46] Although published articles have not tested for M378 in Jewish populations, genetic genealogists from the Ashkenazi, Mizrachi, and Sephardi Jewish populations have tested positive for both M378 and L245. Q-M378 samples also has been located in Central America (Panama) and South America (Andean Region)[47]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M242#The_Americas

Ugo Perego:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071390

..is emphasizing Mesoamerica and Q-M378 came from Asia.

That doesn't match the Book of Mormon. Mesoamerica theory fails again.

[Storm Rider]

Q-M378 (M378) — It is widely distributed in Europe, South Asia, West and East Asia. It is found among samples of Hazaras and Sindhis.[28] It is also found in the Mongols, the Japanese people and the Uyghurs of North-Western China in two separate groups.[45] The Q-M378 subclade and specifically its Q-L245 subbranch is speculated to be the branch to which Q-M242 men in European Jewish Diaspora populations belong.[30][46] Although published articles have not tested for M378 in Jewish populations, genetic genealogists from the Ashkenazi, Mizrachi, and Sephardi Jewish populations have tested positive for both M378 and L245. Q-M378 samples also has been located in Central America (Panama) and South America (Andean Region)[47]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M242#The_Americas

Ugo Perego:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071390

..is emphasizing Mesoamerica and Q-M378 came from Asia.

That doesn't match the Book of Mormon. Mesoamerica theory fails again.

 

Well that would be nice to tie up in a bow, but unfortunately, that is not accurate.  It remains debatable where each instance of Q-m378 comes from and no study makes such an unsupported declaration.  Regardless, the presence of Jewish DNA or lack of it in ancient peoples or in the current population does not prove or disprove any theory on the Book of Mormon.  Try again, just don't be so strident when evidence does not support such a position.  It gives science a bad name when this happens. 

[PeterPear]

Well that would be nice to tie up in a bow, but unfortunately, that is not accurate.  It remains debatable where each instance of Q-m378 comes from and no study makes such an unsupported declaration.  Regardless, the presence of Jewish DNA or lack of it in ancient peoples or in the current population does not prove or disprove any theory on the Book of Mormon.  Try again, just don't be so strident when evidence does not support such a position.  It gives science a bad name when this happens.

From the abstract signed off by Perego:

"Our data not only confirm a southern Siberian origin of ancestral populations that gave rise to Paleo-Indians and the differentiation of both Native American Q founding lineages in Beringia, but support their concomitant arrival in Mesoamerica, where Mexico acted as recipient for the first wave of migration, followed by a rapid southward migration, along the Pacific coast, into the Andean region."

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071390

What does this have to with the Book of Mormon? Nothing. The people of the Book of Mormon did not arrive to the Americas via Beringia.

From the report:

"Only two American Y chromosomes did not cluster into the L54 sub-branch. They were both M378-positive, thus belonging to Q1b, a finding never previously reported for Native Americans. Considering that the phylogeography of this infrequent haplogroup is restricted to South West Asia [52]–[55], the most likely interpretation of this outcome is that they represent an arrival from Asia in contemporary history. For this reason the two Y chromosomes were not included in subsequent analyses."

No it does not represent an arrival from Asia in contemporary history into Mesoamerica.

It represents an arrival of the descendants of Lehi into Mesoamerica exactly as the Book of Mormon states - that after the Lamanites destroyed the Nephite Nation in Eastern North America the Lamanites "spread forth upon the face of the land" as Nephi stated in his vision (1 Nephi 12:20) of his and his Father's descendants and they thus intermingled with the asiatics in Mesoamerica making them also heirs of Lehi as modern Prophets have stated.

This notion that Lehi's group landed in Mesoamerica and found a huge population of "Others" is ridiculous and is not supported by the Book of Mormon.

I'm strident because I know the scriptures and don't twist them to fit a Mesoamerica theory.

[canard78]

Well that would be nice to tie up in a bow, but unfortunately, that is not accurate. It remains debatable where each instance of Q-m378 comes from and no study makes such an unsupported declaration. Regardless, the presence of Jewish DNA or lack of it in ancient peoples or in the current population does not prove or disprove any theory on the Book of Mormon. Try again, just don't be so strident when evidence does not support such a position. It gives science a bad name when this happens.

I still think PeterPear is a troll.

And I agree with you. Being responsible with evidences lends far more credibility.

[Alan]

It is known that several hundred years ago 20% of the population of Lisbon, Portugal was black.

There is apparently no DNA trace of this.

 

So a small Israelite (though non-Jewish) arrival in an already populated area, mixing with the native peoples, and absorbing further migrations from elsewhere, is unlikely to have any detectable Jewish (Judah/Benjamin) DNA, especially given that there wasn't any there in the first place!.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Alan

[Avatar4321]

Well that would be nice to tie up in a bow, but unfortunately, that is not accurate.  It remains debatable where each instance of Q-m378 comes from and no study makes such an unsupported declaration.  Regardless, the presence of Jewish DNA or lack of it in ancient peoples or in the current population does not prove or disprove any theory on the Book of Mormon.  Try again, just don't be so strident when evidence does not support such a position.  It gives science a bad name when this happens.

I don't think it proves the Book of Mormon. It just refutes the critics.who claim there is no DNA evidence.

[PeterPear]

I still think PeterPear is a troll.

And I agree with you. Being responsible with evidences lends far more credibility.

I'm a troll? You're a nice fellow. A true fellow-Mormon you are. Sorry for butting into your internet club and disturbing you with my opinions. At least I post sources to support my opinions vs referring to people as trolls to in an attempt to gain support against me by appealing to others' base emotions.

Perego was referring to Mesoamerica in his attempt to place a "Jewish" haplotype among Book of Mormon people, and I disagreed with the premise, then you refer to me as a troll. Lovely.