Isn't It Time We Call Ourselves Out?

[Scott Lloyd]

Shout him down?? Me, shout down the King of the Shout Down?!

 

Now that's funny.......

 

And who was it that first leveled the marginalizing insult?

 

ETA:  And by the way, I went back to look at the thread you mentioned, and it looks to me that you flung back as much "disgust" and "shout down" as your apponents did.

My error was in not altogether ignoring the provocations. I have a weakness in that regard.

 

You have no idea how much restraint I did exercise before ultimately withdrawing from the thread.

[smac97]

Huh?  It had NO effect ... in the eternal scheme?  So if you were never a member of this Church, it would have no eternal effect on you and your family?  If that is the case, why would you be a member now?  Just party on, Garth, and reap the eternal rewards later.

 

If membership in this Church has ANY value, then discouraging membership in it has SOME effect on those discouraged persons.  How is it that even debatable?

 

Here is my thought: I think there are times where the followers of Christ, either through misconduct, or well-intentioned error, or situational happenstance, impede the spiritual progress of their fellow children of God in terms of coming to follow Christ.  By way of hypothetical: An LDS bishop commits a grave sin by molesting a teenage girl who came to him for spiritual guidance.  That girl is heavily traumatized by the abuse, blames the Church, and spends the rest of her life estranged from and strongly hostile to the Church.  Such a thing could happen, right (frankly, I bet it's happened a few times).

 

Another example would be Corianton, who committed a grave sin while acting as a missionary:

 

2 For thou didst not give so much heed unto my words as did thy brother, among the people of the Zoramites. Now this is what I have against thee; thou didst go on unto boasting in thy strength and thy wisdom.

3 And this is not all, my son. Thou didst do that which was grievous unto me; for thou didst forsake the ministry, and did go over into the land of Siron among the borders of the Lamanites, after the harlot Isabel.

4 Yea, she did steal away the hearts of many; but this was no excuse for thee, my son. Thou shouldst have tended to the ministry wherewith thou wast entrusted.

...

11 Suffer not yourself to be led away by any vain or foolish thing; suffer not the devil to lead away your heart again after those wicked harlots. Behold, O my son, how great iniquity ye brought upon the Zoramites; for when they saw your conduct they would not believe in my words.

12 And now the Spirit of the Lord doth say unto me: Command thy children to do good, lest they lead away the hearts of many people to destruction; therefore I command you, my son, in the fear of God, that ye refrain from your iniquities.

 

So here's the thing: What happens to the teenage girl who became estranged from the Restored Gospel due, to a great extent, to the grave misconduct of her bishop?  

 

What happened to the Zoramites who, due to the grave misconduct of Corianton, "would not believe in (Alma's) words?"

 

What happens to people, presumably mostly those of black African descent, who, through sincere indignance or through being persuaded by the Church's detractors and critics, conclude that the prior existence of the priesthood ban negates the truth claims of the LDS Church, and on that basis reject the Restored Gospel?

 

My belief is that the Atonement will cover such circumstances as to those deprived of a meaningful opportunity to accept the Restored Gospel (the teenage girl, the Zoramites, those estranged from the Gospel because of the priesthood ban), and also as to those, whether through misconduct, or well-intentioned error, or situational happenstance, did the depriving (assuming repentance is appropriate and is wrought).

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[Scott Lloyd]

 

Here is my thought: I think there are times where the followers of Christ, either through misconduct, or well-intentioned error, or situational happenstance, impede the spiritual progress of their fellow children of God in terms of coming to follow Christ.  By way of hypothetical: An LDS bishop commits a grave sin by molesting a teenage girl who came to him for spiritual guidance.  That girl is heavily traumatized by the abuse, blames the Church, and spends the rest of her life estranged from and strongly hostile to the Church.  Such a thing could happen, right (frankly, I bet it's happened a few times).

 

Another example would be Corianton, who committed a grave sin while acting as a missionary:

 

2 For thou didst not give so much heed unto my words as did thy brother, among the people of the Zoramites. Now this is what I have against thee; thou didst go on unto boasting in thy strength and thy wisdom.

3 And this is not all, my son. Thou didst do that which was grievous unto me; for thou didst forsake the ministry, and did go over into the land of Siron among the borders of the Lamanites, after the harlot Isabel.

4 Yea, she did steal away the hearts of many; but this was no excuse for thee, my son. Thou shouldst have tended to the ministry wherewith thou wast entrusted.

...

11 Suffer not yourself to be led away by any vain or foolish thing; suffer not the devil to lead away your heart again after those wicked harlots. Behold, O my son, how great iniquity ye brought upon the Zoramites; for when they saw your conduct they would not believe in my words.

12 And now the Spirit of the Lord doth say unto me: Command thy children to do good, lest they lead away the hearts of many people to destruction; therefore I command you, my son, in the fear of God, that ye refrain from your iniquities.

 

So here's the thing: What happens to the teenage girl who became estranged from the Restored Gospel due, to a great extent, to the grave misconduct of her bishop?  

 

What happened to the Zoramites who, due to the grave misconduct of Corianton, "would not believe in (Alma's) words?"

 

What happens to people, presumably mostly those of black African descent, who, through sincere indignance or through being persuaded by the Church's detractors and critics, conclude that the prior existence of the priesthood ban negates the truth claims of the LDS Church, and on that basis reject the Restored Gospel?

 

My belief is that the Atonement will cover such circumstances as to those deprived of a meaningful opportunity to accept the Restored Gospel (the teenage girl, the Zoramites, those estranged from the Gospel because of the priesthood ban), and also as to those, whether through misconduct, or well-intentioned error, or situational happenstance, did the depriving (assuming repentance is appropriate and is wrought).

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

 

I very much agree with this, and would further point out that one of Christ's roles is Healer. I firmly believe that includes healing those whose feelings have been wounded to the extent that they are unable to clearly see the beauty of the gospel when it is presented to them. I believe that many, if not most or all, will embrace the gospel in its fullness once the healing has occurred.