Kevin Christensen Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) They were probably visions, probably not NDEs. Book of Mormon teaches that Alma 40:11 "Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life."Did you actually read my essay? Did you carefully consider just how the angel that stopped Alma and the sons of Mosiah by the road actually made known to Alma the things Alma taught? Was it a lecture or a demonstration given while Alma was "nigh unto death" due to his shock at the appearance of the angel? Do you believe the children that claim to remember their "previous lives" on Earth?When considering previous lives reports, I also consider my copy of Ian Wilson's Mind out of Time, which is a study of past life claims, particularly in relation to hypnosis and past life regression approaches. I'm impressed by Wilson's explanation, and I quote him in my essay. Wishful thinking makes people feel better, but it is not useful. I see no evidence for NDEs and no evidence for reincarnation, and the church does not have an official position, so why believe experiences that the church says nothing about?So the correspondences between the Book of Mormon and NDE accounts does not count as evidence, and Alma's express teachings based on a "nigh unto death" experience that matches modern accounts does not count. Alma, I noticed, also demonstrates all of the after-effects of a modern NDE. In listening to an NDE account by Howard Storm, I could not help but notice how much he talks like Alma. And there is Brigham Young's Winter Quarters experience, and how that underlies what appears in the Spirit World chapter of the Brigham Young Priesthood manual, and the longstanding openness in LDS culture to reporting and sharing these kinds of experiences, which predated Moody, as Crowther's Life Everlasting demonstrates. And Howard W. Hunter's NDE report in General conference. Those rather conspicuous presences and voices shore up my respect of the NDE phenomenon. While someone like Carl Sagan can incorporate NDE imagery into the climax of his novel, Contact, faking the after-effects of an NDE is pretty tricky. And there is Sabom's book on whether NDErs who reported that they witnessed their rescusitation were accurate in their observations. FWIW Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA Edited February 17, 2015 by Kevin Christensen 2
MormonFreeThinker Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Did you actually read my essay? Did you carefully consider just how the angel that stopped Alma and the sons of Mosiah by the road actually made known to Alma the things Alma taught? Was it a lecture or a demonstration given while Alma was "nigh unto death" due to his shock at the appearance of the angel? It doesn't prove that his spirit was out of his body. What about tree of life vision? Was Lehi out of his body when he saw his family in the Tree of life vision? When ancient prophets saw our day, were they out of the body? I am not close minded, in fact I am very close to believing in NDEs again, but I am still skeptical. I just need a little more to believe in NDEs again. When considering previous lives reports, I also consider my copy of Ian Wilson's Mind out of Time, which is a study of past life claims, particularly in relation to hypnosis and past life regression approaches. I'm impressed by Wilson's explanation, and I quote him in my essay. Here is a extraordinary reincarnation claim See 12:45 to 15:00. Perhaps there are more extraordinary NDEs claims, but there are some reincarnation reports that are extraordinary. There are also some alien abduction reports that are extraordinary, for example the Betty and Barney Hill star map. Perhaps the belief in Betty and Barney Hill star map is the result of confirmation bias, but the report is extraordinary. Edited February 17, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker
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