Pope Francis On Evolution And Big Bang

[ERayR]

Go for a little bit of super dark with some organic peanut butter on it.  Beats a Reese's cup anytime! , more protein good monosaturated fats and lower carbs too and the peanut butter fills you up a bit!

 

Thanks I'll have to try it.

[TheSkepticChristian]

The internet is posting that Pope Francis just basically supported evolution and the big bang theory, am curious of my Catholic friends as to whether that really is his opinion because there have been hoaxes before, and to what extent this constitutes a change in Catholic doctrine.

 

Pope Francis loves science and he is full of compassion. Pope Francis warned the rich and powerful on Tuesday that God will judge them on whether they fed the poor and cared for the Earth, his latest exhortation on the environment ahead of his eagerly-awaited encyclical on climate change and its effects on the world's most vulnerable. 

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-god-judge-whether-cared-earth-163818982.html

 

As for the environment, the LDS endorses the position that we need to be friendly to the environment. A Nature study found that coal-burning power plants cause thousands of deaths, mostly from respiratory disease. That means the LDS leaders want us to do something about it. 

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2598.html

[Stone holm]

Pope Francis loves science and he is full of compassion. Pope Francis warned the rich and powerful on Tuesday that God will judge them on whether they fed the poor and cared for the Earth, his latest exhortation on the environment ahead of his eagerly-awaited encyclical on climate change and its effects on the world's most vulnerable. 

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-god-judge-whether-cared-earth-163818982.html

 

As for the environment, the LDS endorses the position that we need to be friendly to the environment. A Nature study found that coal-burning power plants cause thousands of deaths, mostly from respiratory disease. That means the LDS leaders want us to do something about it. 

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2598.html

Yes, you would think they would, but that is speculation because they have been fairly mum on the subject. You see a green project here and there, but little incorporation of such subjects into our religion. We try to feed the poor, but we don't speak out against the economic systems that create poverty.

[thesometimesaint]

Yes, you would think they would, but that is speculation because they have been fairly mum on the subject. You see a green project here and there, but little incorporation of such subjects into our religion. We try to feed the poor, but we don't speak out against the economic systems that create poverty.

 

Economic systems don't create poverty.

[TheSkepticChristian]

You see a green project here and there, but little incorporation of such subjects into our religion. We try to feed the poor, but we don't speak out against the economic systems that create poverty.

 

but church leaders teach "The scientific method is a valuable way of seeking truth"

Edited June 9, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[Stone holm]

I would have to disagree that economic systems don't create poverty.  Capitalism has a tendency to concentrate wealth over time if there are no major external jolts.  Over concentration of wealth results in widespread poverty almost by definition.  America historically had an escape valve except for slaves in the form of western frontier migration.

[3DOP]

Our son, pictured in my avatar photo, was home yesterday for about 20 hours after having spent a year in Asia. I had forgotten, but he recalled for me one of the many small straws that added to the broken camel's back leading to my decision in 2005, that the Catholic Church is truly in crisis. "That government leaders will enact policies to preserve the resources of our fragile planet, we pray to the Lord." Gag a robot.

 

You LDS greenies should just become conciliar Catholics. You can pray all day and night with Pope Francis about politics as the only thing that God cares about. After all, salvation is now assured for everyone...the only thing left is to save the fragile planet. 

[thesometimesaint]

I would have to disagree that economic systems don't create poverty.  Capitalism has a tendency to concentrate wealth over time if there are no major external jolts.  Over concentration of wealth results in widespread poverty almost by definition.  America historically had an escape valve except for slaves in the form of western frontier migration.

 

Lots depends on how that economic system is implemented. A well regulated capitalistic economic system has given more wealth to more people than any other economic system from the 1930's to 1980's, yet developed. In the US we've become enamored with unrestricted/unregulated Laissez-faire predatory capitalism.  

Edited June 10, 2015 by thesometimesaint

[TheSkepticChristian]

You LDS greenies should just become conciliar Catholics. You can pray all day and night with Pope Francis about politics as the only thing that God cares about. After all, salvation is now assured for everyone...the only thing left is to save the fragile planet. 

 

God cares about the poor, there is a reason why the Pope is worried 

 

Edited June 10, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[Stone holm]

Our son, pictured in my avatar photo, was home yesterday for about 20 hours after having spent a year in Asia. I had forgotten, but he recalled for me one of the many small straws that added to the broken camel's back leading to my decision in 2005, that the Catholic Church is truly in crisis. "That government leaders will enact policies to preserve the resources of our fragile planet, we pray to the Lord." Gag a robot.

 

You LDS greenies should just become conciliar Catholics. You can pray all day and night with Pope Francis about politics as the only thing that God cares about. After all, salvation is now assured for everyone...the only thing left is to save the fragile planet.

He appears to be moving away from sex obsessed religion, towards one which actually faces the many social issues of the day. I don't know how many LDS I have heard say, finally a religious leader who actually teaches what Christ would have taught.

[3DOP]

Hi stoneholm.

 

I am not familiar with any who seem more "obsessed with sex" than those who insist that there are no sexual standards to which we must discipline ourselves if we would be pleasing to God.

 

I assume that I am also "obsessed with sex", according to you, because I agree with the teachings of the Catholic and LDS churches about the proper ranges and limits of sexual activity?

 

You like a pope who like no other of his 264 predecessors seems to traditional Catholics to more or less hate the Catholic faith of our fathers. Non-Catholics like you who adore Pope Francis don't even like liberals such as Pope Paul VI or John Paul II! After all, they (gasp!) held to the traditional Catholic positions on the primary purpose of marriage. Sexually obsessed. Those who want to believe that the joys of marriage can never be legitimately extended to every sterile, selfish, and depraved means of having an orgasm are "obsessed with sex". It is those who are the slaves of their genitalia who are to be considered normal. No thanks to being one of those who are no longer "sexually obsessed" as you seem to understand it.

 

3DOP

Edited June 11, 2015 by 3DOP

[TheSkepticChristian]

Hi stoneholm.

 

I am not familiar with any who seem more "obsessed with sex" than those who insist that there are no sexual standards to which we must discipline ourselves if we would be pleasing to God.

 

I assume that I am also "obsessed with sex", according to you, because I agree with the teachings of the Catholic and LDS churches about the proper ranges and limits of sexual activity?

 

He is saying that sex discipline is not the only important topic that we need to learn about. Pope Francis is teaching the world a lot of important stuff. For example, the Catholic Church endorsed genetically modified crops as a cure for world hunger. I love how Pope Francis is a science guy, he doesn't care about the partisan politics. 

 

 

You can pray all day and night with Pope Francis about politics as the only thing that God cares about.

 

Many liberals think GMO causes allergies and many conservatives think GW theory is a hoax because of bad science

Your Pope is not a Republican or Democrat, your Pope is on the side of science, reason, and compassion  

Edited June 11, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[TheSkepticChristian]

You can pray all day and night with Pope Francis about politics as the only thing that God cares about. 

 

God cares about the poor and God cares about applied Christianity 

[saemo]

When Pope Francis made the statement about evolution and the Big Bang, he also said that God didn't do things with a magic wand, in other words he worked through the laws of nature and science

I don't think that is what Pope Francis was saying. 3DOP's point regarding the Sacraments is relevant. But I think this says it best.

 

Just as the sun shines simultaneously on the tall cedars

and on each little flower as though it were alone on the earth,

so Our Lord is occupied particularly with each soul as though

there were no others like it.

 

And just as in nature all the seasons are arranged

in such a way as to make the humblest daisy bloom on a set day,

in the same way, everything works out for the good of each soul.

-St. Therese of Lisieux

 

That is, there is no magic wand, but there is God. The Catholic view of God in regards to creation is not that of intelligent designer, but of Creator, which includes supernatural aspects, but those should not be confused with magic wands.

 

Creation, including the universe, unfolding like a flower, is Catholic. Evolution, as a scientific principle, is not in conflict with the Catholic understanding of creation when it is viewed as not separate from God, His grace, and not magical. (Magic, in Catholic teaching, is a big no-no, and can be first seen taught against when Simon Magus requested the power of the Holy Spirit of Peter, as though it were a magical power to possess and wield.)

 

There is no historical reference for Adam and Eve, so attempting to place them in history is nothing but guessing. Science removing them from history, a priori, is fine, from a scientific POV. This does not preclude reading and understanding Genesis as relating important truths about God, creation, us, etc. because Genesis is not a scientific textbook.

 

Creation is an action of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit cannot be laid out on a table and examined. What can be examined by us is creation itself, but examining the Creative power of the Holy Spirit, is not possible for us. 

 

The graces received via the Sacraments are also an action of the Holy Spirit, and also described sometimes by non-Catholics as "magic". The actions of the Holy Spirit are not magical, as in, wave a wand and something happens. Creation did not occur magically, as in, wave a wand and something happens. 

 

Regarding the Big Bang, so it happened, and a flower bloomed in my back yard, and both events were put into motion by an ultimate cause. The ultimate cause for Catholics, is God.

 

BTW, I don't think we can say definitively (scientifically) that the beginning of the universe is the beginning of Creation. 

Edited June 11, 2015 by saemo

[thesometimesaint]

I don't think that is what Pope Francis was saying. 3DOP's point regarding the Sacraments is relevant. But I think this says it best.

 

Just as the sun shines simultaneously on the tall cedars

and on each little flower as though it were alone on the earth,

so Our Lord is occupied particularly with each soul as though

there were no others like it.

 

And just as in nature all the seasons are arranged

in such a way as to make the humblest daisy bloom on a set day,

in the same way, everything works out for the good of each soul.

-St. Therese of Lisieux

 

That is, there is no magic wand, but there is God. The Catholic view of God in regards to creation is not that of intelligent designer, but of Creator, which includes supernatural aspects, but those should not be confused with magic wands.

 

Creation, including the universe, unfolding like a flower, is Catholic. Evolution, as a scientific principle, is not in conflict with the Catholic understanding of creation when it is viewed as not separate from God, His grace, and not magical. (Magic, in Catholic teaching, is a big no-no, and can be first seen taught against when Simon Magus requested the power of the Holy Spirit of Peter, as though it were a magical power to possess and wield.)

 

There is no historical reference for Adam and Eve, so attempting to place them in history is nothing but guessing. Science removing them from history, a priori, is fine, from a scientific POV. This does not preclude reading and understanding Genesis as relating important truths about God, creation, us, etc. because Genesis is not a scientific textbook.

 

Creation is an action of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit cannot be laid out on a table and examined. What can be examined by us is creation itself, but examining the Creative power of the Holy Spirit, is not possible for us. 

 

The graces received via the Sacraments are also an action of the Holy Spirit, and also described sometimes by non-Catholics as "magic". The actions of the Holy Spirit are not magical, as in, wave a wand and something happens. Creation did not occur magically, as in, wave a wand and something happens. 

 

Regarding the Big Bang, so it happened, and a flower bloomed in my back yard, and both events were put into motion by an ultimate cause. The ultimate cause for Catholics, is God.

 

BTW, I don't think we can say definitively (scientifically) that the beginning of the universe is the beginning of Creation. 

 

While I don't accept some of Catholic doctrine. I agree that it all depends upon God.

[3DOP]

He is saying that sex discipline is not the only important topic that we need to learn about. Pope Francis is teaching the world a lot of important stuff. For example, the Catholic Church endorsed genetically modified crops as a cure for world hunger. I love how Pope Francis is a science guy, he doesn't care about the partisan politics. 

 

 

Many liberals think GMO causes allergies and many conservatives think GW theory is a hoax because of bad science

Your Pope is not a Republican or Democrat, your Pope is on the side of science, reason, and compassion  

 

Hi TheSkepticChristian,

 

Oh yes, for me and for all Traditional Catholics there is nothing more important to us than sex discipline.The pope and you have hit the nail on the head. We are against the pope because we can think of nothing day or night except "sex discipline". We fear that if this pope gets his way, our schools, catechists, and priests will be required to teach something besides sex. When you have great sex teachings, what else matters? Why else would we even go to church it weren't to get our weekly fix of sex discipline?

 

----------------

 

You might be serious. But the pope is disingenuous to try to make it seem like everyone who is against him has some kind of obsession with sexual matters.

 

Many non-Catholic Francis lovers out there act like the popes and the Church never gave a rip about the poor until the first truly humble pontiff came to the rescue. I know the history, and I know of holy popes and bishops who divested themselves of private and episcopal fortunes to feed the poor of their flocks.

 

St. Lawrence is revered as the second among deacon martyrs of the Church after St. Stephen. When brought before the magistrate of Rome for his forbidden eccesial activites, St. Lawrence was promised that if he would bring all of the treasures of the church to the next meeting with the magistrate, his life would be spared. When the good saint appeared, he brought with him hundreds of ragged and ill-kempt men and women and boys and girls. In short, he brought the poor of Rome who had found material sustenance and spiritual riches through the charitable works and teaching activity of the church of Rome. When the magistrate saw this crowd he was distracted by it, but he still asked where the church's treasure was, expecting that Lawrence would have brought the gold chalices and other costly parapernalia known to be used by the Christians in their religious ceremonies. Instead of bringing these material riches, Lawrence pointed to the poor of Rome who had found shelter with the church as being its greatest riches. For this he was burned to death on a grid.

 

The Church, through its Head, Jesus Christ, has always understood the needs of the poor, both those who are materially, as well as spiritually poor. The Church has always taught that the interior life of a man is what needs to be converted. No one's deepest needs are met through political action. If the state, in cooperation with the Church is willing to help feed the poor materially? Bravo. Many Christian kings and queens have undertaken to do just that, but always with an end in view that understands the misery of the man whose body is fed and whose soul is famished. Christ declared that those who do not eat His flesh and drink His blood have no life in them.

 

Those who disagree with the Catholic Church, which has always understood this passage to be speaking of the Holy Eucharist, are understandably favorable towards a pope who speaks and behaves like he doesn't care to what church or religion anyone belongs. It makes it seem like all that stuff about "Living Bread" and the necessity of the Catholic priest is finally going away where it always should have been. But is it not also understandable that those of us who retain Catholic Tradition cannot be satisfied with the spiritual condition of non-Catholics? The true Church will always be missionary-oriented. (That is partly why I was originally drawn to consider the claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Can a consistent Catholic be indifferent to his neighbors who according to his own beliefs, are spiritually starving?

 

In my opinion, this pope's popularity among non-Catholics stems from his emphasis on material poverty and worldly matters that are not even questions of revelation or faith. No Catholic can be obliged by faith to accept papal teachings that have nothing to do with the Apostolic revelation and Tradition even if it makes liberal Catholics and non-Catholics giddy. More troubling than his worldly hobby horses, is the pope's blithe disregard for the precepts and teachings of the Catholic Church when it comes to the significant question of church affiliation and the need to be a Catholic.

 

I do not care if I agree or disagree with Francis' beliefs about GMO or GW or GQZ. My concern is that Catholics appear to me to be led by a pastor today who uses his office to broadcast his opinions on mundane questions only remotely related to the Catholic faith. He also seems concerned about the poverty of the body without a corresponding conviction regarding the poverty of soul of those who have do not have faith in Catholic Eucharistic doctrine, and as a result, can neither eat Christ's flesh nor drink Christ's blood.

 

Obviously, my dear Mormon friends are among those who would be poverty stricken according to what I have said above. I hope I have not often compromised my true beliefs about the exclusive claims of the Catholic Church to be necessary for the spiritual life of every soul. I am sure I have watered down the truth as I see it, a few times, and I am sorry for that. It is easy to want not to give offense. I would feel guilty if after over ten years here, my beliefs about this are surprising to everyone. Maybe the pope agrees with me, but like me also wants to be liked? I don't get the sense that he suffers any guilt feelings about his projected indifference about religious affiliation. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think he has the same Catholic faith as his predecessors. That is why I find his massive popularity to be particularly galling. 

 

Rory

Edited June 13, 2015 by 3DOP

[Calm]

" I would feel guilty if after over ten years here, my beliefs about this are surprising to everyone"

I don't think you need to feel any guilt about this. Anyone who has paid attention to your comments should understand the strength of your devotion to your faith and your belief of its essential presence for spiritual life.

[3DOP]

" I would feel guilty if after over ten years here, my beliefs about this are surprising to everyone"

I don't think you need to feel any guilt about this. Anyone who has paid attention to your comments should understand the strength of your devotion to your faith and your belief of its essential presence for spiritual life.

 

I have watered it down a few times, and God is good, He loves us in our imperfections. He looks at our motives too. It would not have been malice, but a weakness borne out of an imperfectly good intention. Since my beliefs are not surprising to you, I haven't surprised everyone. Thanks! Therefore, I am innocent of always watering it down! It can be a hard balance but when we love people we want to be united with them and to gloss over differences. But the Scripture asks, "Can two walk together except they be agreed?" No they can't. Not in the most meaningful and complete unity for which we long. We can have a good desire to have "Christian unity" that makes us lose our balance and forget that we need to be agreed. I could be satisfied with no kind of unity in this life while those I love attend a different church.  

 

Even though I mention myself, I was drawing a comparison, allowing the possibility that Pope Francis has, as I have, at least on occasion according to my own admission, watered it down. It is admittedly slight, but I retain a hope that Pope Francis has a firm belief in everything that the Church has always taught through the centuries.

[thesometimesaint]

3DPOP:

 

For better or worse the good that men do is often buried with their bones while the evil lives long after applies to Saints and Sinners alike.

[TheSkepticChristian]

 He also seems concerned about the poverty of the body without a corresponding conviction regarding the poverty of soul of those who have do not have faith in Catholic Eucharistic doctrine

 

Being concerned about the poor does help nonbelievers. Many non-believers lose their faith because many religious leaders do nothing for the poor, or they do very little. 

 

 

In my opinion, this pope's popularity among non-Catholics stems from his emphasis on material poverty and worldly matters that are not even questions of revelation or faith. 

 

The Pope is popular because he cares about everything. I am sure he also teaches that sex outside marriage is bad, but that does not make news. 

It is not about the material, it is about loving and caring about others, that is what Jesus wants. Jesus said to help the poor. 

 

 

I do not care if I agree or disagree with Francis' beliefs about GMO or GW or GQZ. My concern is that Catholics appear to me to be led by a pastor today who uses his office to broadcast his opinions on mundane questions only remotely related to the Catholic faith. 

 

GMO and GW are very important topics. GW affects God´s creation (mostly negative impacts) and affects the poor. Pope Francis cares about GW because he cares about the poor, he has compassion, that is called Christianity.

 

GMO is also an important topics because GMO helps the poor, it's called Christianity. 

 

Pope Francis is preaching Christianity by caring about the poor, that is what Jesus wants. 

Edited June 15, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[TheSkepticChristian]

Tomorrow is going to be a big day for Science, Charity, and Religion thanks to Pope Francis and the Vatican

 

June 18, 2015 will be a day to remember 

Edited June 17, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[TheSkepticChristian]

Here is the new Encyclical by the Pope 

 

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.html

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765675702/Pope-urges-revolution-to-save-Earth-fix-perverse-economy.html

Edited June 18, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[Stone holm]

I should clarify what I mean by obsessed with sex, it would be better stated as obsessed with things sexual, in other words : abortion, homosexuality, female dress standards, pornography, adultery, fornication, movie standards as opposed to say violence, worship of Mammon, greed, environmental destructiveness, racism, political oppression, religious tolerance, poverty, illiteracy, etc.

[thesometimesaint]

Those are not mutually exclusive.

[TheSkepticChristian]

abortion, homosexuality, female dress standards, pornography, adultery, fornication, movie standards 

 

Popular opinion on MDDB: use religion in politics 

 

 

as opposed to say violence, worship of Mammon, greed, environmental destructiveness, racism, political oppression, religious tolerance, poverty, illiteracy, etc.

 

Popular opinion on MDDB: keep religion out of politics 

 

 

Those are not mutually exclusive.

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865631022/LDS-environmental-stewardship-statement-recent-talk-share-similarities-with-Pope-Francis.html?pg=all