We Are Members Of The Lds Religion For One Reason

[JLHPROF]

All. Also, Spirit Prison is hell. Still envying those who accept the gospel later?

 

 

Yep, sucks to be them. That is one of the downsides of God letting us get so involved in the work of salvation. He apparently thinks it is worth it.

 

Did I misunderstand then?  If ALL unbaptized dead go to the spirit prison, then what is paradise for?

 

Christ said to the thief "Today you shall be with me in paradise" and that man had no baptism.

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

[mormonnewb]

Then God is a liar and the sooner we all leave the gospel and the church the better.

You so easily conflate God's words with those of Church leaders. Is there anywhere in the OT or NT where God speaks of the necessity of vicarious baptisms?

I guess you can point me to that throw away line by Paul in Galatians, but it seems strange that HF and Christ wouldn't have made a bigger deal out of the process by which almost ALL of humanity would have to be saved. Why wouldn't Christ himself speak about something that was essential to His work?

You'll probably reply that it sucks to be anyone but a Mormon. Maybe so. But rather than thinking that HF could care less about the salvation of the vast majority of His children, I suspect that it's more likely that those children simply have an inflated view of their importance to the process. And like with my own children, HF thinks it's cute and adorable.

Edited September 29, 2014 by mormonnewb

[The Nehor]

Did I misunderstand then?  If ALL unbaptized dead go to the spirit prison, then what is paradise for?

 

Christ said to the thief "Today you shall be with me in paradise" and that man had no baptism.

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

A bad translation. From what I understand there is no good Greek word for paradise and if there is the word used is not it. I do not have my books with me but instead of paradise I believe the word is Hades. Most scholars say it is best translated as something like "spirit world" or "spirit realm".

[The Nehor]

You so easily conflate God's words with those of Church leaders. Is there anywhere in the OT or NT where God speaks of the necessity of vicarious baptisms?

I guess you can point me to that throw away line by Paul in Galatians, but it seems strange that HF and Christ wouldn't have made a bigger deal out of the process by which almost ALL of humanity would have to be saved. Why wouldn't Christ himself speak about something that was essential to His work?

You'll probably reply that it sucks to be anyone but a Mormon. Maybe so. But rather than thinking that HF could care less about the salvation of the vast majority of His children, I suspect that it's more likely that those children simply have an inflated view of their importance to the process. And like with my own children, HF thinks it's cute and adorable.

If you restrict the canon to the Bible then yes, it is hard to establish but that is not surprising. Of course the D&C has quite a bit about it. Vicarious work appears to have been revealed in only two dispensations and in the Savior's dispensation it was a late arrival and the dispensation did not last long.

As to being obsessed with my own self-importance I am supposed to become a God. The work I do here is important. God told me so and continues to tell me so. It is all an auxiliary to what the Savior did but is still vital.

I find that those with a habit of "seeing through" the gospel like you seem to want to want to make it all less important, possibly to lessen their guilt over their dereliction of their duty. They smugly sit by imagining that they are on the level with God watching others act out a silly pantomime that is entirely optional. Of course the Savior took ordinances seriously but that was just a trick so the less enlightened would have something to do and keep them out of trouble while those who really understand can laugh at their adorable little antics.

Edited September 29, 2014 by The Nehor

[mormonnewb]

A bad translation. From what I understand there is no good Greek word for paradise and if there is the word used is not it. I do not have my books with me but instead of paradise I believe the word is Hades. Most scholars say it is best translated as something like "spirit world" or "spirit realm".

 

Here are the two verses from Luke 23:42-43:

 

"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

 

If your interpretation is correct, then what Jesus really said was, "Today thou shalt be sent to spirit prison where thou shalt languish until some Mormon learns your true name on ancestry.com sometime around the year 2165."  Which I believe is the same "reward" that the other prisoner on the cross received.

 

The Gospel According to Nehor seems to lack a lot of the "good news."

[The Nehor]

Here are the two verses from Luke 23:42-43:

 

"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

 

If your interpretation is correct, then what Jesus really said was, "Today thou shalt be sent to spirit prison where thou shalt languish until some Mormon learns your true name on ancestry.com sometime around the year 2165."  Which I believe is the same "reward" that the other prisoner on the cross received.

 

The Gospel According to Nehor seems to lack a lot of the "good news."

I read it as "Today thou wilt be with me in the world of spirits." Then, since he was coming back anyways he almost certainly taught the principle of vicarious ordinances in the 40 day ministry and could have included the guy's name. Woohoo, problem solved.

[rlds_coc_lds]

A bad translation. From what I understand there is no good Greek word for paradise and if there is the word used is not it. I do not have my books with me but instead of paradise I believe the word is Hades. Most scholars say it is best translated as something like "spirit world" or "spirit realm".

 

The word παράδεισος (paradeisos) means garden. It referred to both the Garden of Eden and to a worldly garden in the Old Testament.

 

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=paradise

 

There is also a thread that discusses this issue:

 

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/49975-no-paradise-in-the-greek-text-of-luke-2343/

 

So you can argue that the Greek itself was incorrect or changed, but it is not an incorrect translation of the extant Greek text.

[The Nehor]

The word παράδεισος (paradeisos) means garden. It referred to both the Garden of Eden and to a worldly garden in the Old Testament.

 

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=paradise

 

There is also a thread that discusses this issue:

 

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/49975-no-paradise-in-the-greek-text-of-luke-2343/

 

So you can argue that the Greek itself was incorrect or changed, but it is not an incorrect translation of the extant Greek text.

Today thou shalt be gardening with me. I like it.