Where Science And Religion Should Meet

[Rob Osborn]

Did you watch all the video? So you say that he dismisses the evidence for a global flood, but why are you doing the same thing? Please explain what he presented. 

 

and many Christians believe in a local flood.  Or at at least explain this

Queen Nefertiti Rock in Arches

 

Yes, I watched the video. He pretty much uses the whole video misrepresenting global flood theory and then offers no counter evidence to the scientists who performed a test showing animals of different destiny settling in different layers of sediment. The rock in the picture has one unique characteristic. Notice it is all made of the same sediment upwards. What natural process on the earth today is forming like layers?

[bcuzbcuz]

Yes, I watched the video. He pretty much uses the whole video misrepresenting global flood theory and then offers no counter evidence to the scientists who performed a test showing animals of different destiny settling in different layers of sediment. The rock in the picture has one unique characteristic. Notice it is all made of the same sediment upwards. What natural process on the earth today is forming like layers?

Are you saying that the entire layer, visible in the photo, was formed in one year? Of sand settling out of solution in water over the year (give or take) that the earth was flooded?

Do have any examples of such a process in the last year or so?

Or do you think the process of sandstone formation from the flood was a "one-off" and will never happen again?

Sandstone is mostly quartz, weathered quartz eroded from granite......which as you know from your sites about Puma Punka is a very hard stone indeed, that then settles out from water. Then it must be squeeze pressed by enormous weight so that all air and water is pushed out from the miniscule spaces between each grain.

If that was still happening, as a process, under a short period of time, the fine grains of volcanic dust from Mt. St, Helens, from the explosion in 1980, would now be immensely dense and hard,like rock. But it isn't. Despite rain and snow and wind, the dust from Mt. St. Helens is still,..... dust. You can still scoop it up with a thin plastic container, like old 35 mm film roll canisters. It still puffs up in annoying little clouds around your feet and make your running shoes all dirty.

Or if you think 34 years is still too short a period of time for sand to form into sandstone, take a look at the sand in the Sahara, that has been accumulating in piles for over six thousand years. I have little containers of sand from the Sahara, sand from around the pyramids at Giza, Egypt, sand from the Sahara desert around the small village of Douz in southern Tunisia, and sand from the Sahara in southern Morocco. The sand in those areas of the Sahara is very packed and hard, in many places. But it isn't rock. It's just compacted sand. It still has an annoying upper layer of fine dust (and you wouldn't believe how finely grained the sand is there. it's like powder) and that powdered sand gets into everything, clothing, backpacks, and camera lens. You can feel it between your teeth when you're eating. I have a picture of my wife and I, eating bread we baked out in the Sahara, if you're interested....bread with tiny sand particles mixed in.

Because sand will not turn into sandstone until all the little spaces between each grain are only filled with other small grains. Check out the sand on a beach....well, not the sand out at Salt Lake. That sand was just trucked in to make a beach. But sand at any seashore. It doesn't change into sandstone. It just stays........sand. The water never gets squeezed out from between the particles.

[thesometimesaint]

Their dates predate the creation...what can I say? According to scripture the Jaredites were the first here after the flood.

 

 

2+2=5

[Brian 2.0]

2+2=5

TSS, please leave the math to religion. Why should we trust you or anyone over God?

Mathematics should simply report that there are numbers. Then religion should explain how these numbers can be understood and used.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Brian 2.0

[thesometimesaint]

TSS, please leave the math to religion. Why should we trust you or anyone over God?

Mathematics should simply report that there are numbers. Then religion should explain how these numbers can be understood and used.

 

[Ahab]

TSS, please leave the math to religion. Why should we trust you or anyone over God?

Mathematics should simply report that there are numbers. Then religion should explain how these numbers can be understood and used.

Yes, it would be much better if everyone simply reported the facts while everyone personally formed their own theories and interpretations of the facts, preferably with God to help them.

Sometimes I wonder if some scientists know how to do that. They seem to want to add their own commentaries as much as the media.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Ahab

[thesometimesaint]

Yes, it would be much better if everyone simply reported the facts while everyone personally formed their own theories and interpretations of the facts, preferably with God to help them.

Sometimes I wonder if some scientists know how to do that. They seem to want to add their own commentaries as much as the media.

 

We'd be better off living in caves afraid of things that go bump in the night.

[Brian 2.0]

Yes, it would be much better if everyone simply reported the facts while everyone personally formed their own theories and interpretations of the facts, preferably with God to help them.

Sometimes I wonder if some scientists know how to do that. They seem to want to add their own commentaries as much as the media.

I like a world where people that have advanced degrees and years of real world interactions with a specific topic being able to offer me their expert analysis of that specific topic, then having other experts in that field confirming or challenging that analysis.

Seems better than little old me, without an advanced degree in that field or any substantial time with that topic trying to come up with my own analysis and interpretation.

Thanks heavens we do live in a world where smart people share their thoughts.

[Rob Osborn]

Are you saying that the entire layer, visible in the photo, was formed in one year? Of sand settling out of solution in water over the year (give or take) that the earth was flooded?

Do have any examples of such a process in the last year or so?

Or do you think the process of sandstone formation from the flood was a "one-off" and will never happen again?

Sandstone is mostly quartz, weathered quartz eroded from granite......which as you know from your sites about Puma Punka is a very hard stone indeed, that then settles out from water. Then it must be squeeze pressed by enormous weight so that all air and water is pushed out from the miniscule spaces between each grain.

If that was still happening, as a process, under a short period of time, the fine grains of volcanic dust from Mt. St, Helens, from the explosion in 1980, would now be immensely dense and hard,like rock. But it isn't. Despite rain and snow and wind, the dust from Mt. St. Helens is still,..... dust. You can still scoop it up with a thin plastic container, like old 35 mm film roll canisters. It still puffs up in annoying little clouds around your feet and make your running shoes all dirty.

Or if you think 34 years is still too short a period of time for sand to form into sandstone, take a look at the sand in the Sahara, that has been accumulating in piles for over six thousand years. I have little containers of sand from the Sahara, sand from around the pyramids at Giza, Egypt, sand from the Sahara desert around the small village of Douz in southern Tunisia, and sand from the Sahara in southern Morocco. The sand in those areas of the Sahara is very packed and hard, in many places. But it isn't rock. It's just compacted sand. It still has an annoying upper layer of fine dust (and you wouldn't believe how finely grained the sand is there. it's like powder) and that powdered sand gets into everything, clothing, backpacks, and camera lens. You can feel it between your teeth when you're eating. I have a picture of my wife and I, eating bread we baked out in the Sahara, if you're interested....bread with tiny sand particles mixed in.

Because sand will not turn into sandstone until all the little spaces between each grain are only filled with other small grains. Check out the sand on a beach....well, not the sand out at Salt Lake. That sand was just trucked in to make a beach. But sand at any seashore. It doesn't change into sandstone. It just stays........sand. The water never gets squeezed out from between the particles.

Please show an example where massively thick and widespread sandstone is currently forming as we see now exposed all over the world.

[Rob Osborn]

I like a world where people that have advanced degrees and years of real world interactions with a specific topic being able to offer me their expert analysis of that specific topic, then having other experts in that field confirming or challenging that analysis.

Seems better than little old me, without an advanced degree in that field or any substantial time with that topic trying to come up with my own analysis and interpretation.

Thanks heavens we do live in a world where smart people share their thoughts.

I prefer a world where basic common sense and logic combines with knowledge and experience to form wisdom. Then take that wisdom and combine it with a measure of faith, humility and a trust in God knowing we are but dust compared to God. Perhaps then we would all be smart.

[Ahab]

I like a world where people that have advanced degrees and years of real world interactions with a specific topic being able to offer me their expert analysis of that specific topic, then having other experts in that field confirming or challenging that analysis.

Seems better than little old me, without an advanced degree in that field or any substantial time with that topic trying to come up with my own analysis and interpretation.

Thanks heavens we do live in a world where smart people share their thoughts.

Me too, but we still need to be careful about who we think is "smart" and what they want to teach others.

 

http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1051

[Rob Osborn]

2+2=5

2+2=5

This is precisely why discussion with you is a joke.

[The Nehor]

Please show an example where massively thick and widespread sandstone is currently forming as we see now exposed all over the world.

Why do I wander in here? Now I have to go pour bleach into my brain to get rid of the stupid. I hope you are happy Rob.

[Rob Osborn]

Why do I wander in here? Now I have to go pour bleach into my brain to get rid of the stupid. I hope you are happy Rob.

Put up or shut up...as they say, heh he  h

Edited April 24, 2014 by Rob Osborn

[The Nehor]

Put up or shut up...as they say, heh he  h

It is impossible to argue with someone who does not share a basic capacity for reason and rationality. All I can do at this point is mock. It is a terrible burden but someone has to bear it and I take this burden on myself so others do not have to. I am a hero.

[thesometimesaint]

This is precisely why discussion with you is a joke.

 

Unfortunately these people aren't joking. Do you really want to be in this group?

[Rob Osborn]

H

 

It is impossible to argue with someone who does not share a basic capacity for reason and rationality. All I can do at this point is mock. It is a terrible burden but someone has to bear it and I take this burden on myself so others do not have to. I am a hero.

How can one argue if you don't bring anything to the table to discuss other than belittling and assinine comments? For starters perhaps you could explain how vastly thick sedimentary layers can form over hundreds of thousands of square miles through natural processes happening on the earth today.

[Rob Osborn]

Unfortunately these people aren't joking. Do you really want to be in this group?

 

 

Unfortunately these people aren't joking. Do you really want to be in this group?

I take pride to be in the group who believe in God, the resurrection, the creation and knowledge that we are not animlas. Most LDS and other Christians believe the same. Are you atheist?

[Ahab]

H

How can one argue if you don't bring anything to the table to discuss other than belittling and assinine comments? For starters perhaps you could explain how vastly thick sedimentary layers can form over hundreds of thousands of square miles through natural processes happening on the earth today.

Let's focus on the problem generally, Rob. You're getting too bogged down on a specific example and it would be best to just talk about why people shouldn't believe what so-called scientists say or teach in college.

[The Nehor]

How can one argue if you don't bring anything to the table to discuss other than belittling and assinine comments? For starters perhaps you could explain how vastly thick sedimentary layers can form over hundreds of thousands of square miles through natural processes happening on the earth today.

Belittling? Yes. Asinine? No.

Sandstone forms underground and it is forming right now all over the place, usually in deserts and under and near bodies of water.

[The Nehor]

I take pride to be in the group who believe in God, the resurrection, the creation and knowledge that we are not animlas. Most LDS and other Christians believe the same. Are you atheist?

False dichotomy. I refuse to accept that my choices in this area are restricted to being either an atheist or an idiot.

[Anijen]

Please show an example where massively thick and widespread sandstone is currently forming as we see now exposed all over the world.

Have you checked between your ears. 

[Rob Osborn]

Let's focus on the problem generally, Rob. You're getting too bogged down on a specific example and it would be best to just talk about why people shouldn't believe what so-called scientists say or teach in college.

I agree. I know there is a general problem at the college level with how and what we are taught. I spent some time dialoguing with some professors at BYU on topics such as evolution, the creation, God, etc, and the one big thing I noticed was how they place such a high degree of faith on a paper that states they have a degree and as such what they say is truth. Its definitly a power trip for them. They speak of wanting to bring other ideas to the table but what they really mean is you can bring it and as long asit goes along with what we have agreed upon as "scientific truth" then we will listen otherwise we will run you out of town and off the face of the world. I asked Steven Peck directly where God fits into the creation and he flat out said he didn't know and couldn't actually say He was required for life to exist and that perhaps instead God is just a mechanism of nature itself. Through much dialogue with him and another prominant BYU professor it became apparent that they do not consider ideasin science that run counter to their long held theories. 

[Rob Osborn]

False dichotomy. I refuse to accept that my choices in this area are restricted to being either an atheist or an idiot.

Hes the one calling me an idiot because I believe in the creation, resurrection and that Adam was a son of God.

[The Nehor]

Hes the one calling me an idiot because I believe in the creation, resurrection and that Adam was a son of God.

No, pretty sure he is saying you are an idiot because you are throwing around pseudoscience and made-up garbage to support your views. I believe in those things too and I am told I am not an idiot.