EllenMaksoud Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Anthropologically, 83% of human societies are polygamous. According to Dr Brennan on Bones. Edited January 29, 2014 by EllenMaksoud 1
JLHPROF Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Anthropologically, 83% of human societies are polygamous. According to Dr Brennan on Bones. It's true historically too in ancient times. If I remember correctly the first major civilization to promote monogamy were the pagan Romans. Most of the earlier civilization allowed for polygamy.
EllenMaksoud Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 It's true historically too in ancient times. If I remember correctly the first major civilization to promote monogamy were the pagan Romans. Most of the earlier civilization allowed for polygamy.In a modern sense, it is not polygamy that is immoral, but the conduct of humans. It is when the husband treats other badly by being domineering, lazy and mean. It is when the wives can not get along, get jealous, and otherwise cranky. So polygamy becomes untenable because of the weaknesses of humans. Others have beat the moral/ Biblical issues to death. It will be used again as practical matters dictate.
ALarson Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 In a modern sense, it is not polygamy that is immoral, but the conduct of humans. It is when the husband treats other badly by being domineering, lazy and mean. It is when the wives can not get along, get jealous, and otherwise cranky. So polygamy becomes untenable because of the weaknesses of humans. Others have beat the moral/ Biblical issues to death. It will be used again as practical matters dictate.These are interesting thoughts and I believe this is why there is a double standard when dealing with and concerning if and how Joseph Smith practiced polygamy vs. how Brigham Young (and succeeding Prophets) lived polygamy. Why do some argue so vehemently regarding this? It was because of how Joseph kept it a secret from his wife and others, and how he publicly denied practicing it but privately was living it. There are reasons he did this at that time, but many cannot come to terms with it. (Please note that I'm not saying that Joseph was domineering, lazy and mean.)
Tacenda Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Former LDS leaders in our church have stated that polygamy curbs unfaithfulness in marriages and was needed. I'm glad that the latter part of our history without polygamy has proven that stigma wrong, men can get along fine with one partner only. We just need to let the current polygamists in on that notion. Of course the ones still practicing believe God commanded it. Which is false to the nth degree. There is no good reason for it.
EllenMaksoud Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 These are interesting thoughts and I believe this is why there is a double standard when dealing with and concerning if and how Joseph Smith practiced polygamy vs. how Brigham Young (and succeeding Prophets) lived polygamy. Why do some argue so vehemently regarding this? It was because of how Joseph kept it a secret from his wife and others, and how he publicly denied practicing it but privately was living it. There are reasons he did this at that time, but many cannot come to terms with it. (Please note that I'm not saying that Joseph was domineering, lazy and mean.)Well, we need to abandon the notion that Joseph Smith was a moral pillar. He was, however the prophet. Those who can not handle the flaws of others need to think about how suitable David, or Solomon were to be used by God. Joseph Smith had never seen polygamy, so he did not know how to do it. So there were doubtlessly mistakes. Maybe he even got selfish, and mean at times. Look at the ego of a man that would translate the BOM, ride a few hundred miles, and get involved with a group of communalists and start a Church. That he kept it secret and his own wife was not on board with it is hmmmm. I don't know anything about how Brigham Young practiced polygamy, and I know little about BY. Mormons by in large seemed to support it. It was the federal government that put a stop to it. I do not know if disgruntled Mormons went to the authorities with complaints. I have heard that local, non Mormons complained about Mormon men sucking up all the women. From a purely secular point of view, polygamy happens at need, for various reasons. I know of no woman who would willingly share her husband unless there was overbearing need. Mostly people now days have not encountered sufficient suffering and deprivation to make polygamy seem like a good idea. At my age, I can't really be part of that conversation. I actually started this thread as a joke. Having just discovered "Bones", I did not actually know if her statistic was correct, but suspect it is.
Tacenda Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Well, we need to abandon the notion that Joseph Smith was a moral pillar. He was, however the prophet. Those who can not handle the flaws of others need to think about how suitable David, or Solomon were to be used by God. Joseph Smith had never seen polygamy, so he did not know how to do it. So there were doubtlessly mistakes. Maybe he even got selfish, and mean at times. Look at the ego of a man that would translate the BOM, ride a few hundred miles, and get involved with a group of communalists and start a Church. That he kept it secret and his own wife was not on board with it is hmmmm. I don't know anything about how Brigham Young practiced polygamy, and I know little about BY. Mormons by in large seemed to support it. It was the federal government that put a stop to it. I do not know if disgruntled Mormons went to the authorities with complaints. I have heard that local, non Mormons complained about Mormon men sucking up all the women. From a purely secular point of view, polygamy happens at need, for various reasons. I know of no woman who would willingly share her husband unless there was overbearing need. Mostly people now days have not encountered sufficient suffering and deprivation to make polygamy seem like a good idea. At my age, I can't really be part of that conversation. I actually started this thread as a joke. Having just discovered "Bones", I did not actually know if her statistic was correct, but suspect it is. I know you did, but I saw that others commented more seriously on it. And I can't pass up a good polygamy thread.
EllenMaksoud Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 I know you did, but I saw that others commented more seriously on it. And I can't pass up a good polygamy thread.Mormons do so much soul searching and that is good. If we get OC about it, the fun stops.
ALarson Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 I actually started this thread as a joke. Having just discovered "Bones", I did not actually know if her statistic was correct, but suspect it is. Hi Ellen! I love that show ("Bones") and I'm glad you posted this quote. I was just pointing out that many wonder why there is such a double standard in the handling or regarding of Joseph Smith's polygamy when compared to even the very next Prophet (Brigham Young). Weren't they both Prophets? Yes. Weren't they both living the exact same principle? Yes. Then why are some shocked that Joseph Smith lived it as commanded? Those were just my points.
EllenMaksoud Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Ellen! I love that show ("Bones") and I'm glad you posted this quote. I was just pointing out that many wonder why there is such a double standard in the handling or regarding of Joseph Smith's polygamy when compared to even the very next Prophet (Brigham Young). Weren't they both Prophets? Yes. Weren't they both living the exact same principle? Yes. Then why are some shocked that Joseph Smith lived it as commanded? Those were just my points.I'm not dissing either one. JS was under a lot of pressure with people trying to kill him and various financial issues. If you think about it, 1830-1844, there were no kitchen sinks, hot water tanks, or flushing toilets. I can't even imagine how one got a bath. There were no disposable diapers or sanitary napkins. I think that just basic survival in that time was awful. How they had time to have babies, build churches, and what ever. I suppose I will hae to read about BY now.
PtolemyGlenn Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 It's true historically too in ancient times. If I remember correctly the first major civilization to promote monogamy were the pagan Romans. Most of the earlier civilization allowed for polygamy.While thw an ient Romans prefered to marry divorce marry divorce marry divorce. When a better family alliance came there way.
ALarson Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 I'm not dissing either one.Oh, I hope you didn't feel that I was accusing you of doing this.as I didn't feel that way. I was just writing what I was thinking from what you posted. (I agree with what you wrote regarding JS too...and yes, Brigham Young is a fascinating person to study.)
Tacenda Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Ellen! I love that show ("Bones") and I'm glad you posted this quote.I was just pointing out that many wonder why there is such a double standard in the handling or regarding of Joseph Smith's polygamy when compared to even the very next Prophet (Brigham Young). Weren't they both Prophets? Yes. Weren't they both living the exact same principle? Yes. Then why are some shocked that Joseph Smith lived it as commanded? Those were just my points.People were shocked about JS because its obfuscation in the church, they didn't know the details. That he didn't establish the doctrine, or God didn't, before his relations with Fanny. Yes, he did it wrong, I guess he was new at it. The thing that gets me the most, and this was new to me, because I remember Joseph was commanded to live it in "The Work and the Glory" series, but that was all the book gave, but I didnt know Joseph went to God first to ask if it should be instituted. Maybe he got his signals crossed with God, or it was a angel from the wrong side because IMO, Joseph needed to cover his tracks with the deal with Fanny. Funny all this time I thought the law was out to get him because of our religion, come to find out, he was being investigated because of complaints about him and women. If Palmer is correct.
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