Church Launches New Website On Preserving Religious Freedom

[thesometimesaint]

I can't speak to every church but the Catholics, for example, have been restricting who they will and won't marry since our nation was born, and I'm not aware of them being forced to perform marriages outside of those parameters.

 

Our bishops are restricted (by our own arbitrary policies) in what marriages they can perform and I don't think that has been challenged.

 

And, of course, our we have all kinds of restrictions in place as to who can be married in our temples... since Nauvoo.  Never successfully challenged.

 

The Catholics are certainly one of the oldest of religions around. I too don't see any governmental effort to force unrestricting it in chuches. But do significant public effort to stigmatize those churches that don't unrestrict it.

[thesometimesaint]

It is these kinds of statements that make religious people think that they can do whatever they want and to heck with anyone else.  Where did you get the idea that free speech means you can say WHAT ever you want WHERE ever you want WHEN ever you want.  Freedom of speech means you can indeed say just about anything you want without the fear of being thrown in jail for what you say.  It does NOT mean you can say anything you want where ever you want when ever you want.

 

Can a sales representative from WalMart go into Macy's and take hold of the PA system to announce sales events at their store?  Can a citizen go into the senate chambers when they are in session and preach a sermon on the Adam-God theory when ever they want?  Can a Catholic priest walk into General Conference while it is being broadcast and preach about baptizing infants?  Can a Christian interrupt a television sitcom to read their own dialogue?  Can you stand up in the middle of a movie theater with a bullhorn to deliver a prayer when a couple kisses on screen?  Do you need more examples or do you now understand the principle of free speech.  No one is persecuting Christians just because they can not say whatever they went when ever they want where ever they want.  Sorry.

 

 

 

And you still did not answer my question on why it is absolutely necessary to have a prayer in order to conduct city business.  And if you do feel like city business should always be prayed over, why not just stand out in front of the building and pray as long as you want.  God will hear your prayer whether you are inside the meeting or standing outside.  You could pray for 24 hours and no one would arrest you.  Now that is free speech and is what makes America a land of liberty.  Forcing your beliefs on others is not liberty.

 

Actually given some ot the laws put into effect by governments at all levels. They need a whole lot more prayers. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, what have you.

[rockpond]

The Catholics are certainly one of the oldest of religions around. I too don't see any governmental effort to force unrestricting it in chuches. But do significant public effort to stigmatize those churches that don't unrestrict it.

 

As a church, we've handled being stigmatized before and we'll handle it in the future.  Plus, now we have started doing some stigmatizing ourselves so we probably should have a bit thicker skin these days.

[california boy]

Actually given some ot the laws put into effect by governments at all levels. They need a whole lot more prayers. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, what have you.

I absolutely agree.  Both governmental and spiritual leaders need all the prayers we can offer on their behalf.

[Sleeper Cell]

It is these kinds of statements that make religious people think that they can do whatever they want and to heck with anyone else.  Where did you get the idea that free speech means you can say WHAT ever you want WHERE ever you want WHEN ever you want.  Freedom of speech means you can indeed say just about anything you want without the fear of being thrown in jail for what you say.  It does NOT mean you can say anything you want where ever you want when ever you want.

 

Can a sales representative from WalMart go into Macy's and take hold of the PA system to announce sales events at their store?  Can a citizen go into the senate chambers when they are in session and preach a sermon on the Adam-God theory when ever they want?  Can a Catholic priest walk into General Conference while it is being broadcast and preach about baptizing infants?  Can a Christian interrupt a television sitcom to read their own dialogue?  Can you stand up in the middle of a movie theater with a bullhorn to deliver a prayer when a couple kisses on screen?  Do you need more examples or do you now understand the principle of free speech.  No one is persecuting Christians just because they can not say whatever they went when ever they want where ever they want.  Sorry.

 

 

Do you understand the principle of free speech?

 

A city council meeting is not a private organization, nor is it generally held on private property.

 

California state law requires city councils to allow anyone to take hold of a city’s PA system at any regular council meeting and say pretty much whatever they want. It’s called “public comment on items not on the agenda.” Cities can set a time limit and require all such comment be made at a specified place in the agenda, and require that what is said to be, at least, tangentially related to something to do with city affairs.  But they must allow everyone to speak who wants to speak.

 

Sorry.

[california boy]

Do you understand the principle of free speech?

 

A city council meeting is not a private organization, nor is it generally held on private property.

 

California state law requires city councils to allow anyone to take hold of a city’s PA system at any regular council meeting and say pretty much whatever they want. It’s called “public comment on items not on the agenda.” Cities can set a time limit and require all such comment be made at a specified place in the agenda, and require that what is said to be, at least, tangentially related to something to do with city affairs.  But they must allow everyone to speak who wants to speak.

 

Sorry.

I have no idea where you thought I was against  a person making public comment in a city counsel meeting.  And I suppose if a person wants to make his speech in the form of a prayer, then that is ok as well.  That is FAR different than demanding that the city counsel meeting begin with a word of prayer and then screaming that there is an attack on religion when the counsel does not allow that.  

 

You should be sorry.

[cdowis]

You can pray in any meeting you want.  There are no laws about not praying anywhere or any time.  Just do it silently. 

 

Can I assume that you wouldn't mind in a public meeting that you can say anything you want, just as long as you do it "silently".  I'm sure many would be very offended by your ideas, get their feeling  hurt, and want to stop you from forcing your ideas on others.

 

Just speak silently, pleeze.

[california boy]

Can I assume that you wouldn't mind in a public meeting that you can say anything you want, just as long as you do it "silently".  I'm sure many would be very offended by your ideas, get their feeling  hurt, and want to stop you from forcing your ideas on others.

 

Just speak silently, pleeze.

Obviously you did not bother to read the post DIRECTLY above your post.  I guess I will have to repeat it for you.

 

I have no idea where you thought I was against  a person making public comment in a city counsel meeting.  And I suppose if a person wants to make his speech in the form of a prayer, then that is ok as well.  That is FAR different than demanding that the city counsel meeting begin with a word of prayer and then screaming that there is an attack on religion when the counsel does not allow that.  

 

[thesometimesaint]

As a church, we've handled being stigmatized before and we'll handle it in the future.  Plus, now we have started doing some stigmatizing ourselves so we probably should have a bit thicker skin these days.

 

Sure we have, but that doesn't mean we have to like it. I see far less stigmatizing by Church members than I used to, but agree that any is too much. We all need a thicker skin so to speak. As BY said: “He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.

[cdowis]

Obviously you did not bother to read the post DIRECTLY above your post.  I guess I will have to repeat it for you.

 

Sorry, old chap.

[Sleeper Cell]

I have no idea where you thought I was against  a person making public comment in a city counsel meeting.  And I suppose if a person wants to make his speech in the form of a prayer, then that is ok as well.  That is FAR different than demanding that the city counsel meeting begin with a word of prayer and then screaming that there is an attack on religion when the counsel does not allow that.  

 

You should be sorry.

 

I never said you were against public comment. per se. You said (your post #146, as developed further in your post #150 -- which I quoted previously) that you were against public comment in the form of a prayer.

 

 

You can't use a public meeting to impose your prayer on others.

 

Now you admit that you can. 

 

If your meant to say that a city council cannot use a public meeting to impose its prayer on others, you should have said so.

 

You cited the Senate as an example of a public meeting where “you” cannot just go into the senate chambers when they are in session and preach a sermon. You are right, a citizen can’t. But, apparently, a senator can. For that matter, I believe that the Senate still has an official chaplain (perhaps several of then) who give opening prayers. 

　

BTW, concerning the following from your post #150:

 

It is these kinds of statements that make religious people think that they can do whatever they want and to heck with anyone else.

 

CFR, that religious people think that they can do whatever they want and to heck with anyone else.

[california boy]

I think I have been pretty clear in my posts that I have no problem with a person expressing their religious beliefs during the appropriate time in any meeting.  I however do not think that Christians have some unique right to open public meetings with an official prayer.  And I don't think it is an attack on Christianity when they are not allow to do so.  

 

 

CFR, that religious people think that they can do whatever they want and to heck with anyone else.

 

By that statement I am referring to Christians demanding formal prayer in schools, 10 commandments displayed in various locations such as the statehouse and classrooms, nativity scenes in government facilities etc.  It is as if some Christians feel like they have some specific right to entitlement just because they are Christians.  And if you have a problem because you don't share their religious belief then they claim persecution.

 

The thing that I object the most to is when Christians feel they are persecuted and there is some kind of phony "war on Christianity" when the courts rule against them.  Christians like any other group in America should abide by the same rules as everyone else.  I, as a Christian feel no need to display my religion and belief in God on government facilities any more than I expect Muslins or Jews or any other religion to have a need to display their religion in governmental facilities. There are plenty of places to display your religious beliefs if you so choose.  Build as big of nativity scene they want on their church lawns or on their own property, or a shopping mall, but leave the government facilities out of the displays.

[thesometimesaint]

I have no idea where you thought I was against  a person making public comment in a city counsel meeting.  And I suppose if a person wants to make his speech in the form of a prayer, then that is ok as well.  That is FAR different than demanding that the city counsel meeting begin with a word of prayer and then screaming that there is an attack on religion when the counsel does not allow that.  

 

You should be sorry.

 

I would prefer that government at all levels not have public prayers.

[california boy]

It seems this chain of stores discriminates against Jews because of it's Christian values.  Is everyone ok with that?

 

Hobby Lobby Boycotts Jewish Hanakka and Passover

[thesometimesaint]

It seems this chain of stores discriminates against Jews because of it's Christian values.  Is everyone ok with that?

 

Hobby Lobby Boycotts Jewish Hanakka and Passover

 

Not that I approve of them. It is a privately owned store. So they can carry whatever they want as far as customer approval goes. Christmas season is a BIG spending spree here in the US, accounting for almost half of monies made all year. So it is a make or break for a great many stores. All that being said carrying Hanakka and Passover celebration items is a good idea business wise as it broadens your customer base.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I would prefer that government at all levels not have public prayers.

And I would prefer that they would at all levels.

[california boy]

Not that I approve of them. It is a privately owned store. So they can carry whatever they want as far as customer approval goes. Christmas season is a BIG spending spree here in the US, accounting for almost half of monies made all year. So it is a make or break for a great many stores. All that being said carrying Hanakka and Passover celebration items is a good idea business wise as it broadens your customer base.

So you are ok with an apartment owner not renting to Jews or a restaurant chain not serving Blacks or a realtor or home owner not selling a home to a Muslin?

[thesometimesaint]

And I would prefer that they would at all levels.

 

No problems. Keep religion out of governments at all levels. That being said I kinda like the Chaplains of the Congress. They have used their bully pulpit to give them holy heck for the last week.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/senate-chaplain-save-us-from-the-madness/

[thesometimesaint]

So you are ok with an apartment owner not renting to Jews or a restaurant chain not serving Blacks or a realtor or home owner not selling a home to a Muslin?

 

That is not what I said. It is illegal to disciminate against a person because of race, creed, color, religion, sex, or sexual orientation. I would support and defend the inclusion of age into those laws. I was talking just in commercial sense. It is and even Rand Paul would agree that is not good for your business to tick off your customers. IE; I shop for my clothes at a local men's store. It is not illegal for them not to carry womens clothes, but it would be illegal for them not to sell to women.