Adam-God Theory/Doctrine

[Ahab]

What is ambiguous about it? The Adam-God teaching is unmistakable. Young says that Adam passed through mortality, was resurrected, and exalted prior to coming to this earth, and begot all of the spirits that would ever come to the earth, the first of these being Jesus Christ. That is about as clear as it gets.

Do you notice how the sentences don't flow together? I write in broken English like that sometimes and when I do I don't fault people who don't clearly understand what I mean.

Forget the names for a moment and think about what you know about Adam, both before and after the Fall, including what will happen to him now that our Savior has atoned for his sin (or transgression if you like that word better). He may have already been resurrected now that our Savior has been resurrected and others have been resurrected since that time, but he wasn't resurrected before the Fall and we know that because he died.

You do know that we know that once we are resurrected it will no longer be possible to die anymore, don't you? Thus, the one we call Adam who is the Father of us all through Eve wasn't resurrected before the Fall. His Father was, though, whatever name you want to use to refer to him, and just as the Father of Adam and Eve was no longer subject to death anymore and wase able to have children so too can we have children after we are resurrected.

Even if Brigham got a few points wrong, which I don't think he did, you do know the truth about how things will work out, don't you?

Edited June 17, 2013 by Ahab

[Nevo]

Forget the names for a moment and think about what you know about Adam, both before and after the Fall, including what will happen to him now that our Savior has atoned for his sin (or transgression if you like that word better). He may have already been resurrected now that our Savior has been resurrected and others have been resurrected since that time, but he wasn't resurrected before the Fall and we know that because he died.

You do know that we know that once we are resurrected it will no longer be possible to die anymore, don't you? Thus, the one we call Adam who is the Father of us all through Eve wasn't resurrected before the Fall. His Father was, though, whatever name you want to use to refer to him, and just as the Father of Adam and Eve was no longer subject to death anymore and wase able to have children so too can we have children after we are resurrected.

I don't disagree with anything you've written here, but I don't see what this has to do with Brigham Young's Adam-God teaching.

[Brian 2.0]

You do know that we know that once we are resurrected it will no longer be possible to die anymore, don't you? Thus, the one we call Adam who is the Father of us all through Eve wasn't resurrected before the Fall.

That's not what Brigham is teaching in the Adam-God doctrine

quote from above: "Adam & Eve when they were placed on this earth were immortal beings with flesh. bones and sinews. but upon partaking of the fruits of the earth while in the garden and cultivating the ground their bodies became changed from immortal to mortal beings with the blood coursing through their veins as the action of life."

Even if Brigham got a few points wrong, which I don't think he did, you do know the truth about how things will work out, don't you?

You do seem to think Brigham got a few points wrong, if you believe that he said the quote I just posted.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Brian 2.0

[Ahab]

That's not what Brigham is teaching in the Adam-God doctrine

quote from above: "Adam & Eve when they were placed on this earth were immortal beings with flesh. bones and sinews. but upon partaking of the fruits of the earth while in the garden and cultivating the ground their bodies became changed from immortal to mortal beings with the blood coursing through their veins as the action of life."

Yes, that is all true. Before the Fall their bodies were the same type as our Lord's after his resurrection, but they had not been resurrected yet and thus they could die. It's only after resurrection that we're not able to die.

You do seem to think Brigham got a few points wrong, if you believe that he said the quote I just posted.

No, I think the scribe(s) just didn't do a perfect job of writing down everything he was teaching, as is evident with the broken English.

[Brian 2.0]

Before the Fall their bodies were the same type as our Lord's after his resurrection, but they had not been resurrected yet and thus they could die.

Incorrect. Keep re-reading

"Adam was an immortal being when he came. on this earth he had lived on an earth similar to ours he had received the Priesthood and the Keys thereof. and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation and was crowned with glory immortality and eternal lives and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness. and had begotten all the spirit that was to come to this earth. and Eve our common Mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial world.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Brian 2.0

[ERayR]

Yes, that is all true. Before the Fall their bodies were the same type as our Lord's after his resurrection, but they had not been resurrected yet and thus they could die. It's only after resurrection that we're not able to die.

Is that a can't die or a do not have to? There is a significant difference.

[Ahab]

Is that a can't die or a do not have to? There is a significant difference.

It will no longer be possible for our spirits to leave our resurrected bodies = no death for resurrected beings in heaven.

Do you imagine something different? Resurrected persons dieing in heaven just as mortals die on this Earth?

[ERayR]

It will no longer be possible for our spirits to leave our resurrected bodies = no death for resurrected beings in heaven.

Do you imagine something different? Resurrected persons dieing in heaven just as mortals die on this Earth?

No but I can imagine a voluntary action like coming to be the head of populating a new creation. Can't you.

[Ahab]

Incorrect. Keep re-reading

"Adam was an immortal being when he came. on this earth he had lived on an earth similar to ours he had received the Priesthood and the Keys thereof. and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation and was crowned with glory immortality and eternal lives and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness. and had begotten all the spirit that was to come to this earth. and Eve our common Mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial world.

You act as if I need to reconcile my beliefs to that account as if that account is true. I've already said that account isn't perfect.

I suggest you read and re-read everything Brigham ever taught and then try to reconcile all of his teachings. I don't believe he contradicted himself. I just think some of his comments weren't clearly recorded.

[Brian 2.0]

It will no longer be possible for our spirits to leave our resurrected bodies = no death for resurrected beings in heaven.

You may be right. And that seems to be the doctrine of the church. But that is NOT what Brigham Young is teaching in Adam-God.

Adam lived on an earth, died, and was resurrected and exalted, created sprit children with Eve who was also resurrected. They came down to earth. Partook of the fruit and their bodies were changed to mortal and they were able to die AGAIN.

THAT's what Brigham Young is teaching. It's okay to disagree with it, and it may very well be false, but that is what the Adam-God doctrine is.

Do you not see that now?

[Ahab]

No but I can imagine a voluntary action like coming to be the head of populating a new creation. Can't you.

Yes, and without me having to die to perpetuate our species.

[ERayR]

Yes, and without me having to die to perpetuate our species.

Yes, and without me having to die to perpetuate our species.

If at the end of your mission you were transformed it would not be death but an instantaneous transformation.

[Brian 2.0]

Gotcha Ahab,

You are just claiming that this source which explains Brigham Young teaching clearly the idea of "a resurrected and immortal Adam who by partaking of the fruit in the garden became again a mortal being" as mis-recorded and not accurate to what Brigham Young said.

It's fine if you think that.

But you agree with that the source I'm referring to is pretty clear on this idea, right?

Edited June 17, 2013 by Brian 2.0

[Ahab]

You may be right. And that seems to be the doctrine of the church. But that is NOT what Brigham Young is teaching in Adam-God.

Adam lived on an earth, died, and was resurrected and exalted, created sprit children with Eve who was also resurrected. They came down to earth. Partook of the fruit and their bodies were changed to mortal and they were able to die AGAIN.

THAT's what Brigham Young is teaching. It's okay to disagree with it, and it may very well be false, but that is what the Adam-God doctrine is.

Do you not see that now?

I see you taking the word of those scribes as if what they wrote is what Brigham said and as if they wrote everything as he said it. Don't you see the breaks in English? Don't you see how sloppily that is? What leads you to believe Brigham said that and said it that way, exactly? I've studied all of his teachings, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and I know what Brigham really believed.

[Brian 2.0]

I've studied all of his teachings, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and I know what Brigham really believed.

That's quite a claim.

[Ahab]

If at the end of your mission you were transformed it would not be death but an instantaneous transformation.

Adam lived to a certain age and then he died and was buried. He wasn't resurrected or translated immediately after death. Jesus Christ was the first among all of our Father's children to be resurrected on this planet, so Adam had to wait a little while.

[Ahab]

That's quite a claim.

With the help of the Holy Spirit, and some studying, you can also know the same thing.

[ERayR]

I see you taking the word of those scribes as if what they wrote is what Brigham said and as if they wrote everything as he said it. Don't you see the breaks in English? Don't you see how sloppily that is? What leads you to believe Brigham said that and said it that way, exactly? I've studied all of his teachings, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and I know what Brigham really believed.

Ahab pardon me but you can only know what you think and interpret Brigham's words to be. Unless you are declaring yourself as getting revelation for the Church as a whole.

[ERayR]

Adam lived to a certain age and then he died and was buried. He wasn't resurrected or translated immediately after death. Jesus Christ was the first among all of our Father's children to be resurrected on this planet, so Adam had to wait a little while.

You are not listening. A transformation is not a resurrection and would only a restitution to what was. You are being quite dogmatic.

[Ahab]

Ahab pardon me but you can only know what you think and interpret Brigham's words to be. Unless you are declaring yourself as getting revelation for the Church as a whole.

The Church as a whole has already been taught the truth on this issue, through the proper channels. I'm just saying I've received revelation from God to know what that truth is.

[Ahab]

You are not listening. A transformation is not a resurrection and would only a restitution to what was. You are being quite dogmatic.

A transformation that is not a resurrection and is also not death is what we refer to as a translation, and that is not meant to last forever. At some point in time a person who is translated will need to experience death, even if only in the twinkle of an eye, to go on to resurrection. Thus all mortals must die, at some time, and nobody can escape it, totally.

[ERayR]

A transformation that is not a resurrection and is also not death is what we refer to as a translation, and that is not meant to last forever. At some point in time a person who is translated will need to experience death, even if only in the twinkle of an eye, to go on to resurrection. Thus all mortals must die, at some time, and nobody can escape it, totally.

Don't be patronizing. I don't accept all your proclamations as doctrine.

[Ahab]

Don't be patronizing. I don't accept all your proclamations as doctrine.

I'm simply sharing what God has told me is true, and I don't accept all of your proclamations as doctrine, or truth, either.

[ERayR]

I'm simply sharing what God has told me is true, and I don't accept all of your proclamations as doctrine, or truth, either.

Good they were not meant to be. Only points for discussion but since you don't seem to want to discuss but seem rather to want to declare then perhaps I will extricate myself for awhile.

[Ahab]

Good they were not meant to be. Only points for discussion but since you don't seem to want to discuss but seem rather to want to declare then perhaps I will extricate myself for awhile.

I declare to share what I know but you can still feel free to point out anything I may not have already thought about which you think is true. You can discuss something with someone else without them asking you a question, can't you? Just share what you think while knowing others will either accept or reject what you say.