Could The Lamanites Really Have Disappeared

[brightpath]

And what is the geography of the Promised Land where the prophecies will take place?

Again if the Lamanites have disappeared the Book of Mormon will cease to be true. The BofM was written to the Lamanites and it is their history. Jesus Christ visited their ancestors! Geographic location doe not matter. The Lamanites are alive and well waiting to Build the New Jerusalem.

Edited August 12, 2013 by brightpath

[canard78]

CFR? Read the BofM my friend. When Lehi landed he did not record he found anybody! When the Mulekites landed in a different part of America they recorded they found the last Jaradite, the ruins of the Jaradite nation and the 24 plates. This was big news to them a mystery. When the Nephites found the Mulekites it was recorded and it was big news. If there were Asians running around the americas then Lehi, the Mulekites, and the Jaradites would have recorded it. The BofM makes no mention of Asians. Asians are Gentiles and were not permitted to come to America until after Israel rejected the gospel. After 421 AD then God allowed for the Gentile invasion. Vikings are Gentiles! They are from Europe and white skinned.

I have read the Book of Mormon. I don't that see your conclusions carrying any weight.

The Americas are huge. Even if there was no-one in the land where Lehi landed, there's plenty of space on the 1000s of other miles of land.

When Alma visited the Zoramites it doesn't mention they were of any particular lineage. It also goes to great length to describe how different they and their religious practices are. Why would they need to specify the Zoramites are "other" when they had already said that they were.

[stemelbow]

The Americas are huge. Even if there was no-one in the land where Lehi landed, there's plenty of space on the 1000s of other miles of land.

You mean millions right?

[stemelbow]

Here are my questions concerning this issue:

1. What was Lehite DNA? We can make some pretty good guesses in our minds, but how do we know?

2. It seems like as tests are condcted among Native American peoples when test subjects find relation to Europeans or others these results are thrown out, why? Sure we know there was an infiltratn from Europe hundreds of years ago, but we also don't know much beyond that. There seem to be too many assumptions here.

3. HOw many times have certain related groups of people get lost amongst a whole other host of people? uh....we don't know. We make the assumption we do know it seems. Why?

[canard78]

You mean millions right?

Those too

Even if we assume that Lehi found nothing on his arrival that's viable given the space available. There are still tribes living in parts of Latin America who have never met another living soul. If you read their record (if they had one) you could still pretend/imagine that they are the only ones in the whole north/south continent.

We had the entire book of Lehi lost, which would have been a more detailed political account of "others" (instead we only get the spiritual journal).

[stemelbow]

Those too

Even if we assume that Lehi found nothing on his arrival that's viable given the space available. There are still tribes living in parts of Latin America who have never met another living soul. If you read their record (if they had one) you could still pretend/imagine that they are the only ones in the whole north/south continent.

We had the entire book of Lehi lost, which would have been a more detailed political account of "others" (instead we only get the spiritual journal).

And the record has such holes. We speak of it being this 1000 year record. It's holely. There are huge segments of time seemingly totally forgotten. Whose to say what happened during those years? A huge portion of the record is dedicated to very short amount of time (Nephi to Jacob is in the same immediate family time frame, MOsiah to 4 Ne is a short amount of time). SOmetimes all we get is a vague allusion to periods that covered hundreds of years. What did the people do from 500 BC to 150 BC? What did people do from 80 AD to 400 AD? We don't know much about that near 800 years. 800 of the 1000?

The groups separate, unite again, splinter off, people are lost.

[Calm]

(instead we only get the spiritual journal).

Which might only involve people who were seen as connected to the covenant made with God...either were still in the covenant or had rejected it and what the consequences were to them. They might not have been interested in those who had never been in the covenant in their view because there were no lessons about the covenant to be learned from them.

[noel00]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/15/110815fa_fact_kolbert

[guerreiro9]

http://www.newyorker...fa_fact_kolbert

Would you mind posting your thoughts on the article? It is considered somewhat bad form to post a link without any accompanying commentary.

I thoroughly enjoyed the article and I hope that Svante Pääbo successfully maps the entire Neanderthal genome, although it does appear that he and his team have encountered more difficulty than expected. It is interesting that their research suggests that certain segments of the human population share more DNA with Neanderthals than other segments. I found the discussion on human's ability to recognize and develop social skills as also very interesting. I have very young children and it appears that the vast majority of their knowledge is acquired through social interaction and mimicking other's behavior, but I had not made the connection that other mammals do not behave in this way.

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I believe that what separates us from other forms of life and gives us our unique "intelligence" is the spirit which abides within us, which I believe to be the spirit offspring of God. It would not surprise me however if some DNA sequence was found that also physically allowed for this greater "intelligence". It appears that our spirit is somewhat constrained by the physical capabilities of the bodies we inhabit, as reflected by those born with mental disabilities. I can't imagine our father in heaven placing his spirit children in any species less intelligent than our own. Sometimes I'm amazed we've survived this long with the amount of stupidity we are capable of.

Fascinating article, thank you for sharing!

-guerreio9

Edited August 14, 2013 by guerreiro9

[noel00]

http://www.nature.com/news/neanderthals-made-leather-working-tools-like-those-in-use-today-1.13542 More on those pesky neanderthals

[rodheadlee]

http://www.nature.co...e-today-1.13542 More on those pesky neanderthals

40,000 years of Neanderthals and the best they can come up with is a bone tool? What were they doing all that time? Why does it seem knowledge exploded 6,000 years ago? 150 years ago?

Edited August 15, 2013 by rodheadlee

[rodheadlee]

oops dupe!

Edited August 15, 2013 by rodheadlee

[ERayR]

40,000 years of Neanderthals and the best they can come up with is a bone tool? What were they doing all that time? Why does it seem knowledge exploded 6,000 years ago? 150 years ago?

Evidences of long gone advanced technologies are regularly ignored or dismissed and ridiculed.

Edited August 15, 2013 by ERayR

[ElliottPJ]

What kind of question is this?  The Lamanites are North America Indians, primarily Algonquin and Iroquoian tribes that inhabited the northeast and southeast, and that they carry the largest percentage of haploid X which ties them to the Hebrews.  I have Lamanite blood even if I am only 0.1 percent Native American as a descendant of the Huron people who inhabited Ontario (ancient Zarahemla). 

 

For those of you don't believe in the Book of Mormon because the evidence isn't there, you're partially right.  But it's the popular geographical models that place the Book of Mormon in Mesoamerica which is false.  Any careful reading of the text and the teachings of Joseph Smith shows the promised land must be in the land of liberty, which can only be North America.

[Questing Beast]

Unless the entire Western Hemisphere is destined to be "the land of liberty", we can hope.

 

Welcome to the board.

 

You hit on several subjects in your first post which are already currently being discussed. I see that you are among the ranks of the "hemispheric model" of Book of Mormon geography believers(?). I am a skeptic of any dogmatically organized religion, including the religion of my birth (BIC here). I've read the BoM well over two dozen times cover to cover and countless times in part. It doesn't matter to me which geographic model anyone adheres to, I think the book is a metaphysical product, from God to be sure (since nothing exists, especially our 'satiable imaginations, outside of "God the Cause"), but has no grounding in literal fact. "History", imho, is entirely unreachable beyond personal experience, i.e. about three generations tops: beyond that it is all interpretative, and probably no more than a "virtual reality" construct we all are participating in. That would be known as part of "the perfect joke", which we also know intimately well as immortals, but forget mostly when we "play" at mortality (to learn what Is Joy and what is not)....

Edited September 5, 2013 by Questing Beast

[canard78]

What kind of question is this? The Lamanites are North America Indians, primarily Algonquin and Iroquoian tribes that inhabited the northeast and southeast, and that they carry the largest percentage of haploid X which ties them to the Hebrews. I have Lamanite blood even if I am only 0.1 percent Native American as a descendant of the Huron people who inhabited Ontario (ancient Zarahemla).

For those of you don't believe in the Book of Mormon because the evidence isn't there, you're partially right. But it's the popular geographical models that place the Book of Mormon in Mesoamerica which is false. Any careful reading of the text and the teachings of Joseph Smith shows the promised land must be in the land of liberty, which can only be North America.

CFR (call for references/evidence) that Lamanites are primarily Algonquin and Iroquoian.