Apocalypse And Testament Of Abraham

[rongo]

Buried somewhere on one of the Book of Abraham threads (I can’t keep up with the torrid posting pace, and fall far behind) I brought up the point that completely separate from discussion of translating methods is the fact that there are numerous remarkable “bulls-eyes” in the text of the Book of Abraham. I went through my notes and formatted for posting the following from Nibley’s “Abraham in Egypt.” Originally in side-by-side form, I post them here sequentially so that the formatting doesn’t get jumbled on the board.

Since this content wasn’t available until 1867 (in German) and in English in 1897, how do critics or doubters explain the close similarity in wording and concept between the Apocalypse and Testament of Abraham and the content of the Book of Abraham? This is completely separate from arguments over KEP/GAEL and resources at his disposal. Where did Joseph Smith come up with this content, then? This is also in response to a poster who quoted Chris Smith along the lines of “Joseph might have gotten a couple of things right by chance, but it’s not nearly as much as apologists claim.”

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“Since the opening sentence of [the Apocalypse of Abraham] declares that ‘I, Abraham ... was searching as to who the Mighty God in truth might be ...’ while the opening sentence of the Book of Abraham informs us that ‘Abraham ... desiring ... to possess greater knowledge ...’ was seeking God earnestly (cf. 2:12), natural curiosity prompts us . . . to compare the two purported autobiographies . . . produced in times and places so remote from each other, to see what [else] they might have in common.”

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Apocalypse of Abraham, section IV Hear, my father Terah ... how shall they [your idols] help you or bless me? ... And when he heard my words, he was very angry with me because I had spoken hard words against his gods.

Book of Abraham 1:5 My fathers having turned ... unto the worshiping of the gods of the heathen, utterly refused to hearken to my voice ... 1:7. They turned their hearts to the sacrifice ... unto their dumb idols, and hearkened not unto my voice.

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Ap. Abr. VII. Father Terah, let me make known to you the God who has created all these ... and has now found me in the perplexity of my thoughts. O, would that God, through himself might reveal himself to us!

Abr. 2:7 For I am the Lord thy God; I dwell in heaven; the earth is my footstool. 2:12. ... Thy servant has sought thee earnestly; now I have found thee.

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Ap. Abr. VIII

The voice from the fiery cloud says: "Abraham, Abraham ... Thou art seeking in

the understanding of thine heart the God of Gods and the Creator; I am he.”

Abr. 1:2

. ... desiring also to ... possess a greater knowledge ... and desiring to receive

instructions, and to keep the commandments of God. ... 2:12. Thy servant has sought thee

earnestly; now I have found thee.

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Ap. Abr. IX.

"Abraham, Abraham!" I answered: "Here am I." And he said, "Behold it is I, be

not afraid, for I am before the world was, a strong God who created even before the light of the

world. [box: "I am before the worlds, and a mighty God who created the light of the world."] I

am your shield and your helper. Go hence... bring me a pure sacrifice. And in this offering I will

show you the Aeons, and reveal to you that which is secret; and you shall see great things never before beheld by you; for you have loved to seek me, and I have called you my friend. ... I will show you the Aeons which have been wrought by my word, and firmly established, created and

renewed."

Abr. 3:11.

Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face ... and he told me of the works

which his hands had made. 3:21. I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to deliver unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my

wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, ... thine eyes have seen from the beginning.

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Ap. Abr. IX Then a voice came to me speaking twice: "Abraham, Abraham!" ... "Behold, it is I; fear not for I am before the worlds ... I am a shield over thee, and I am thy helper.

Abr. 1:16. And his voice was unto me: Abraham, Abraham, behold, my name is Jehovah, and I have heard thee, and have come down to deliver thee.

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Ap. Abr. X I heard the voice of the Holy One speaking: "Go, Jaoel [box, note 5: The name Yahoel (Jaoel) is evidently a substitute for the ineffable name of Yahweh] and by means of my ineffable Name raise me yonder man, and strengthen him (so that he recover) from his trembling"; And the angel came, whom He had sent to me, in the likeness of a man, and grasped me by the right hand, and set me upon my feet. ... "I am called Jaoel by Him who moveth with that which existeth with me on the 7th expanse upon the firmament. ... stand up Abraham, go without fear! ... I am he who hath been commissioned to loosen Hades, to destroy him who stareth at the dead."

Abr. 1:15. ... and the angel of his presence stood by me, and immediately unloosed my bands; 1:16. And his voice was unto me: ...behold, my name is Jehovah ... 1:18. Behold, I will lead

thee by my hand ...[in the Book of Abraham this is the theme of Abraham's deliverance from the altar. The expressions "loose the bands of Hades" and "him who stareth at the dead" signify the nature of the deliverance and are typically Egyptian; the latter Box finds quite bizarre. Facsimile no. 1 is a very proper illustration to the story.]

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Ap. Abr. X. "Arise, Abraham, with courage, go with joy and gladness. I am with you, for the Eternal One has prepared for you honor everlasting ... for behold I am set apart with you and with the generations which have been before prepared, out of you; and with me [Jehovah], Michael blesses you forevermore."

Abr. 3:22. Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones. 3:23. And God ... stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; ... and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

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Ap. Abr. XII. ... behold the altar upon the mountain to offer the sacrifice. ... But the turtle dove and the dove give to me, for I ascend upon bird's wings to show you that which is in heaven, and upon the earth ... and in the fullness of the circuit of the whole world.

Cf. Abr. Fac. 2, Fig. 2. ... holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham, as he offered sacrifice upon an altar, which he had built unto the Lord. Fac. 2, Fig. 7. (It is the dove who gives Abraham the key.)

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Apoc. Abr. XIX.

And a voice came to me. ... And it said: "Behold the expanse under the plain

upon which you now stand."

Abr. 3:3. And the Lord said unto me: ... all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest. 3:4. ... according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. ... 3:6. ... the set time of the earth upon which thou standest. (This phrase is repeated in verses 5, 6,

and 7.)

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Apoc. Abr. XIX. ... And as he still spoke, behold the expanse opened itself, and below me heavens. And I saw upon the seventh firmament upon which I stood, a spreading, fiery light, and dew, and a multitude of angels, and a power of invisible glory over the living beings. ... And I looked downward ... upon the sixth heaven. ... And behold also upon this firmament was no other power except that of the seventh firmament. ... And the voice commanded that the sixth heaven should disappear, and I saw the powers of the stars of the fifth heaven whom the elements of the earth obey.

Abr. 3:2. And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it. 3:3. These are the governing ones; ... I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest. 3:9. Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest. Fac. 2, Fig. 1. Kolob

... first in government. Fig. 2. Stands next to Kolob ... the next grand governing creation. Fig. 5.

... this is one of the governing planets also ... through the medium of ... the governing power, which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars.

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Ap. Abr. XXI.

He said to me: "Now look beneath your feet upon the plain and recognize the

pre-formed creature upon this firmament, and the beings there-on; and the aeons prepared before.

what is this picture of the creature?" And he said to me: "This is my will in relation to that which

has a being in the Council, and it became pleasing before me, and then afterwards I commanded

them through my word. And it came to pass that as many as I had authorized to exist, before

portrayed in this picture, and had stood before me pre-created, —as many as you have seen."

Abr. 3:22. Now the Lord has shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized

before the world was; and among all these were many of the noble and great ones. 3:23. And

God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I

will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits.

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Ap. Abr. XXII.

And I said: "Ruler, Strong One, Thou Who Wast Before the World, Who are the

multitude in this picture, on the right hand and on the left?" And He said to me: "... These for

judgment and order; those for vengeance and destruction at the end of the world. But those on

the right side of the picture are the people chosen for me, separated from the peoples of Azazel

[satan]. These are those which I have prepared to be born through you and to be called my

people. The G. H. Box translation: "This is my will with regard to those who exist in the [divine]

world-council . . .

Abr. 3:25.

And we will prove them herewith. ... 3:26. And they who keep their first estate shall

be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom.

3:27. And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here

am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will

send the first. 3:28. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day,

many followed after him.

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Ap. Abr. XXII

... they are the people set apart for me. ... These are they whom I have

ordained to be born of thee and to be called My People."

Abr. 3:23

. And God...stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers. ...

Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

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Ap. Abr. XXII. And I said, "Primeval One, Strong One, what is this picture of the creature?" XXIII. Behold also in the picture him who led Eve astray; and behold the fruit of the tree. ... And I looked about in the picture, and my eyes rested upon the side of Paradise [he then saw the Garden of Eden drama presented in a sort of moving picture].

Abr. 1:12. ... and that you may have a knowledge of this altar, I will refer you to the representation at the commencement of this record. 1:14.That you may have an understanding

of these gods, I have given you the fashion of them in the figures at the beginning. 5:13. ... for in

the time that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die. Now I, Abraham, saw that it was after the

Lord's time.

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Ap. Abr. XXV. I saw there the likeness of an idol of wrath, an image made of material like unto

that which my father had made. ... Before it stood a man, and he worshipped it, and there was an altar opposite, and boys were butchered upon it in full view of the idol.

Abr. 1:7. ... they turned their hearts to the sacrifice of the heathen in offering up their children unto their dumb idols, and hearkened not unto my voice, but endeavored to take away my life by the hand of the priest of Elkenah. Fac. 1, Fig. 1. (The same picture showing Abraham in his youth on the altar.)

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Ap. Abr. XXVII.

"Rather the dispensation of the just is seen in the image of kings and those

who judge with righteousness, whom I before created to be rulers among them; from these

proceed men who guide the destinies of all whom you have seen, and which have been made

known to you."

Abr. 3:23.

And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and

said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those who were spirits,and he saw that

they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before

thou wast born.

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Ap. Abr. XXVIII

... one hour of the age—the same is a hundred years ... XXIX. And I

said: "O Eternal [Mighty One]! And how long a time is an hour of the Age?" ... And do thou

reckon and understand and look into the picture."

Fac. 2, Fig. 1. ... The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. ... Abr. 3:4. one revolution was a day unto the Lord, ... it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest.

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(Nibley again):

" ‘Most recently,’ writes G. W. E. Nickelsburg, Jr., ‘the suggestion of Egyptian origin [of the Testamet of Abraham] has been spelled out in considerable detail in a Strasbourg doctoral dissertation by Francis Schmidt.’ He ‘compares the Testament of Abraham with judgment scenes in two late Egyptian documents: The Book of the Dead of Pamonthes (A.D. 63—other and much older texts would have done as well) and The Tale of Satni-Khamois (A.D. 50-100).’ The present writer has already discussed the latter work in the light of the Joseph Smith "Sensen" Papyrus. On a basis of an ‘aggregate of parallels, Schmidt finds evidence for a tentative conclusion that the Testament of Abraham used the Egyptian judgment scene as its model.’ The picture, that is, as well as the text—a drawing from the Egyptian Book of the Dead was the inspiration for the Testament of Abraham!”

[volgadon]

]Apocalypse of Abraham, section IV Hear, my father Terah ... how shall they [your idols] help you or bless me? ... And when he heard my words, he was very angry with me because I had spoken hard words against his gods.

Book of Abraham 1:5 My fathers having turned ... unto the worshiping of the gods of the heathen, utterly refused to hearken to my voice ... 1:7. They turned their hearts to the sacrifice ... unto their dumb idols, and hearkened not unto my voice.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-44FAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA291&dq=abraham+idols&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BucqUenEGsaErQGZt4CYCQ&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=abraham%20idols&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=HYJHAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA271&dq=abraham+idols&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BucqUenEGsaErQGZt4CYCQ&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=abraham%20idols&f=false

[Robert F. Smith]

http://books.google....m idols&f=false

http://books.google....m idols&f=false

What are you saying here?

By the way, Nibley's above citation of George Nicklesburg reminds me that I must apologize to you for not letting you know that Nicklesburg was going to speak in Old Main at USU last Tuesday -- on I Enoch. However, the proceedings will be published. Check with Phil Barlow's Religious Studies program there for further important speakers in coming weeks and months. Give your email to the secretary, and she will keep you informed.

[Calm]

I think he was contesting this claim:

Since this content wasn’t available until 1867 (in German) and in English in 1897

[Nevo]

... there are numerous remarkable “bulls-eyes” in the text of the Book of Abraham....

Since this content wasn’t available until 1867 (in German) and in English in 1897, how do critics or doubters explain the close similarity in wording and concept between the Apocalypse and Testament of Abraham and the content of the Book of Abraham?

Of the eighteen proposed parallels you list, I don't see a close similarity in wording in any of them except for the fifth example, where both texts have the repeated "Abraham, Abraham." But Genesis 22:11—which Joseph Smith obviously had access to—also has "Abraham, Abraham," so this purported "bull's-eye" doesn't hold up.

There are some shared concepts in the two texts, but most of them don't strike me as particularly noteworthy. For example, in both texts, Abraham is said to seek God. In both texts, God reveals himself to Abraham (which, of course, also happens in Genesis). In both texts, Abraham is said to stand someplace. In both texts, Abraham is shown stars (as he is in Genesis).

More substantial, in my view, are the following similarities:

• Both texts note that Terah, Abraham's father, was an idolater. This is not stated explicitly in the Bible but it's not an unreasonable assumption given his residence in "Ur of the Chaldees." In any case, references to Terah's idolatry appear in a number of Jewish sources and the tradition was mentioned in bible commentaries in Joseph Smith's day. Matthew Henry's commentary also reports the Jewish tradition that Abraham was cast into the fire for refusing to worship idols.
  

• Both texts apparently refer to human preexistence and election. I admit that this is a noteworthy parallel. However, as Terryl Givens has shown, "belief in preexistence . . . has persisted across millennia and across cultures" (Givens, When Souls Had Wings, 4).
  

• In both texts Abraham is shown all of creation in a vision (compare Abr. 3:12 and Apoc. Abr. 9:9; 12:10). Again, I have to admit that this is an interesting point of correspondence.
  

But even if we say that the Book of Abraham bears a striking resemblance in some particulars to the Apocalypse of Abraham (dating from the first to second century CE), where does that leave us? The Apocalypse of Abraham was not a writing of Abraham. In modern terms, it's a forgery. Therefore, the critic may well concede that Joseph Smith's midrashes have some interesting resemblances to Jewish midrashes from the turn of the era, but so what? Neither has anything to do with Abraham, whose historical existence appears dubious in any case.

.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Nevo

[volgadon]

What are you saying here?

I was pointing out that some of those parallels could have been known from other sources, which, of course, is not the same as saying that Joseph did know them. I'm not terribly concerned with the "how could Joseph have known" kind of argument. I'd much rather lookat what the text says, where it is similar to other traditions, where it differs, and why. There is a ton of material showing the ancient "voice" of the BoA.

By the way, Nibley's above citation of George Nicklesburg reminds me that I must apologize to you for not letting you know that Nicklesburg was going to speak in Old Main at USU last Tuesday -- on I Enoch. However, the proceedings will be published. Check with Phil Barlow's Religious Studies program there for further important speakers in coming weeks and months. Give your email to the secretary, and she will keep you informed.

Don't worry, I saw the announcement on the temple studies site, but since I had switched jobs my schedule wouldn't let me attend. C'est la vie. However, I'll be presenting in Provo on the 16th.

[cdowis]

But even if we say that the Book of Abraham bears a striking resemblance in some particulars to the Apocalypse of Abraham (dating from the first to second century CE), where does that leave us? The Apocalypse of Abraham was not a writing of Abraham. In modern terms, it's a forgery. Therefore, the critic may well concede that Joseph Smith's midrashes have some interesting resemblances to Jewish midrashes from the turn of the era, but so what? Neither has anything to do with Abraham, whose historical existence appears dubious in any case..

So, this is just an amazing coincidence.

Let's look at another option that apparently you were unable to conceive. Let us suppose that "Abraham" wrote this document based on an actual document which was written by the real Abraham. He then called himself Abraham since some/most of the material came from the authentic Abraham, but he added his own ideas and mythology.

This would also explain why the exact wording differs, even though the concepts expressed in the two documents are similar (compared to the Biblical account). The BOA has features which were clearly similar to the Apocalypse which are not find in Genesis.

So, this then gets rid of the amazing coincidence factor, and indicates that the BOA actually contains authentic material preserved in a third or fourth hand account.

The problem is that your bias blinded you from seeing the obvious. You are only able to see that If the "Abraham" author was a fake, then you can brush it all off completely without a second thought. No other options.

Happy to be able to expand your mind.

Edited February 25, 2013 by cdowis

[volgadon]

So, this is just a coincidence.

Let's look at another option that apparently you were unable to conceive. Let us suppose that "Abraham" wrote this document based on an actual document which was written by the real Abraham. He then called himself Abraham since some/most of the material came from the authentic Abraham, but he added his own ideas and mythology.

So, this then gets rid of the amazing coincidence factor, and indicates that the BOA actually contains authentic material preserved in a third or fourth hand account.

I know that you could have thought of that given a few moments of thought.

This idea is in the right direction, but your formulation is a tad simplistic. The downside is that transmission history is extremely difficult to folow with those kinds of documents.

[cdowis]

This idea is in the right direction, but your formulation is a tad simplistic. The downside is that transmission history is extremely difficult to folow with those kinds of documents.

Well, is that not better than "it's just another amazing coincidence", as we find so numerous in the BOM. The other option is that JS spent years in the Middle East researching the geography, and manuscripts. Indeed he discovered ancient documents, used the material, and then hid them away again, hoping that we would be fooled decades later after we discovered them.

Yes, there are other options, I suppose. I realize that I have a bias towards the simple option.

Edited February 25, 2013 by cdowis

[volgadon]

Well, is that not better than "it's just another amazing coincidence", as we find so numerous in the BOM. The other option is that JS spent years in the Middle East researching the geography, and manuscripts. Indeed he discovered ancient documents, used the material, and then hid them away again, hoping that we would be fooled decades later after we discovered them.

Yes, there are other options, I suppose.

Do you have some options that don't involve silly caricatures?

Several of those coincidences are not so "amazing." Interesting, yes, but not "amazing."

Edited February 25, 2013 by volgadon

[volgadon]

I realize that I have a bias towards the simple option.

Your option is not that simple is what I've been trying to say.

[cdowis]

Do you have some options that don't involve silly caricatures?

Several of those coincidences are not so "amazing." Interesting, yes, but not "amazing."

But if you have a **pattern** of coincidences, they are additive. One or two, yest it is interesting, but bundled together in a tapestry of evidence, it goes beyond just interesting.

But that is just me. You see beyond a group of coincidences and only find them "interesting". You ignore the tapestry, the big picture.

To my way of thinking, that is simplistic. Unfortunately, that only leaves for me cartoons, until I see some realistic option from you beyond "just interesting".

Make your points respectfully.

[volgadon]

But if you have a **pattern** of coincidences, they are additive. One or two, yest it is interesting, but bundled together in a tapestry of evidence, it goes beyond just interesting.

But that is just me. You see beyond a group of coincidences and only find them "interesting". You ignore the tapestry, the big picture.

To my way of thinking, that is simplistic. Unfortunately, that only leaves for me cartoons, until I see some realistic option from you beyond "just interesting".

Your "tapestry of evidence" runs the risk of parallelomania unless both the kind of evidence, and its function are considered.

If, for instance, the notion that Abraham's father was an idolater, and that an attempt had been made on Abraham's life was known, it doesn't require that Joseph have spent "years in the Middle East researching the geography, and manuscripts. Indeed he discovered ancient documents, used the material, and then hid them away again, hoping that we would be fooled decades later after we discovered them."

As you yourself stated, "I know that you could have thought of that given a few moments of thought."

[Nevo]

Happy to be able to expand your mind.

Thanks, cdowis. Every little bit helps!

Let us suppose that "Abraham" wrote this document based on an actual document which was written by the real Abraham. He then called himself Abraham since some/most of the material came from the authentic Abraham, but he added his own ideas and mythology.

One scholar summarizes the Apocalypse of Abraham as follows:

The theme of the Apocalypse of Abraham seems to be Israel's election and its covenant with God.... Chapters 1–8 constitute the story of Abraham's youth and his perception of idolatry. Abraham concludes that his father's idols are not gods, because some stone idols are crushed and a wooden idol is accidentally consumed by fire. Abraham consequently beseeches God to reveal himself, whereupon he hears God's voice, which instructs Abraham to leave his father's house.

Abraham is commanded to offer a sacrifice so that God will reveal 'great things which you have not seen...' (9:6). God sends his angel Iaoel to lead Abraham up to heaven (15:4), where he sees seven visions: the light and fiery angels (15:5–7), the fire (17:1–3), the throne (18:1–14), the firmaments (19:4–9), the world (21:2–7), the seven sins of the world (24:3–25:2), and the destruction of the Temple (27:1–3). Finally God announces the punishment of the gentiles through ten plagues (chs. 29f.) and the victory of the just (chs. 31f.). (R. Rubinkiewicz, "Apocalypse of Abraham (First to Second Century A.D.)," in

The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha

, vol. 1, ed. James H. Charlesworth [New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 1983], 681).

Perhaps it is just a lack of imagination on my part, but I have a hard time seeing how the Apocalypse of Abraham could be derived from the Book of Abraham when there are only a handful of meaningful similarities between the two texts. And the most significant of these similarities turn out to be stock ideas found in other apocalyptic writings (namely, preexistence and mediated visions of the cosmos). If there is a Book of Abraham kernel in the Apocalypse of Abraham, I cannot discern it. You may be correct that the Apocalypse of Abraham is a massively corrupted version of the Book of Abraham, but then we have to ask why the text changed so completely within a century or two when it had theretofore been transmitted intact for some two thousand years.

The Apocalypse of Abraham is, in fact, a prime example of Jewish apocalyptic literature, a genre that makes its appearance quite late in Israel's history and was likely influenced by Zoroastrianism and contemporary Hellenistic literature. That the Book of Abraham contains some of these same motifs is fascinating but not probative of historicity.

(By the way, you dismiss "amazing coincidences" but they do exist!)

N.B.: I should clarify that in this thread I am strictly accessing the "critic/doubter" partition of my brain, since that is what the OP was seeking. My "better angel" considers the Book of Abraham inspired scripture and entertains the possibility that it genuinely derives from the biblical Abraham.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Nevo

[cdowis]

Your "tapestry of evidence" runs the risk of parallelomania unless both the kind of evidence, and its function are considered.

With the greatest respect, I am very aware of the issue of parallelism, and have posted extensively on the subject.

If, for instance, the notion that Abraham's father was an idolater, and that an attempt had been made on Abraham's life was known,

The OP contains about fifteen corresponding points -- some of which may be rather weak.

I am really have confidence that Nibley knows what he is talking about when he pointed them out. Perhaps you can demonstrate that he was mistaken, that these points were already well-known, including Joseph Smith, without the extensive research that I mentioned.

That is what a "tapestry" of evidence means.

You can have the last word.

Edited February 25, 2013 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Perhaps it is just a lack of imagination on my part, but I have a hard time seeing how the Apocalypse of Abraham could be derived from the Book of Abraham when there are only a handful of meaningful similarities between the two texts. And the most significant of these similarities turn out to be stock ideas found in other apocalyptic writings (namely, preexistence and mediated visions of the cosmos). If there is a Book of Abraham kernel in the Apocalypse of Abraham, I cannot discern it. You may be correct that the Apocalypse of Abraham is a massively corrupted version of the Book of Abraham, but then we have to ask why the text changed so completely within a century or two when it had theretofore been transmitted intact for some two thousand years.

The Apocalypse of Abraham is, in fact, a prime example of Jewish apocalyptic literature, a genre that makes its appearance quite late in Israel's history and was likely influenced by Zoroastrianism and contemporary Hellenistic literature. That the Book of Abraham contains some of these same motifs is fascinating but not probative of historicity.

(By the way, you dismiss "amazing coincidences" but they do exist!)

N.B.: I should clarify that in this thread I am strictly accessing the "critic/doubter" partition of my brain, since that is what the OP was seeking. My "better angel" considers the Book of Abraham inspired scripture and entertains the possibility that it genuinely derives from the biblical Abraham.

Perhaps you take this up with Nibley the next time you see him. My only response would be that he knows what he is talking about in the context of JS time period, whilst you do not.

Perhaps my previous post would be helpful -- the fake Abraham took aspects from authentic ancient records of Abraham (not necessarily the BOA) and, for several reasons, enhanced the story with his own ideas. The point is the parallel concepts that are common to both. If JS wrote the BOA, he was clearly familiar with this particular document.

And, indeed, if you want to dismiss this as merely coincidence -- whatever floats your boat.

Edited February 25, 2013 by cdowis

[Chris Smith]

• Both texts note that Terah, Abraham's father, was an idolater. This is not stated explicitly in the Bible but it's not an unreasonable assumption given his residence in "Ur of the Chaldees." In any case, references to Terah's idolatry appear in a number of Jewish sources and the tradition was mentioned in bible commentaries in Joseph Smith's day. Matthew Henry's commentary also reports the Jewish tradition that Abraham was cast into the fire for refusing to worship idols.
  

• Both texts apparently refer to human preexistence and election. I admit that this is a noteworthy parallel. However, as Terryl Givens has shown, "belief in preexistence . . . has persisted across millennia and across cultures" (Givens, When Souls Had Wings, 4).
  

• In both texts Abraham is shown all of creation in a vision (compare Abr. 3:12 and Apoc. Abr. 9:9; 12:10). Again, I have to admit that this is an interesting point of correspondence.
  

Additionally, note that Joshua 24:2 explicitly says Terah was an idolater, and this can also be inferred from Josephus (which we know for a fact Joseph and/or his scribes were reading in connection with the BoA translation in 1835). Josephus also says that because of Abraham's rejection of their gods, "the Chaldeans, and other people of Mesopotamia, raised a tumult against him," on account of which "he thought fit to leave that country."

Josephus doesn't mention a vision of creation, but he does mention that Abraham had extensive knowledge of fauna, arithmetic, and astronomy, which he taught to the Egyptians. Josephus's Abraham is a scientist, like Josephus; Joseph Smith and the author of Apocalypse make him a visionary, like themselves. As is common in midrashic texts, both Joseph Smith and the Apocalypse sought to establish a new cosmology by embellishing a biblical story. Visions of creation are a standard motif in these sorts of texts. The visions are not similar enough to indicate borrowing or dependence; rather, the authors were simply engaged in similar enterprises.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Chris Smith

[Nevo]

Additionally, note that Joshua 24:2 explicitly says Terah was an idolater, and this can also be inferred from Josephus (which we know for a fact Joseph and/or his scribes were reading in connection with the BoA translation in 1835).

Thanks for the correction. Good catch.

[Maidservant]

Of the eighteen proposed parallels you list, I don't see a close similarity in wording in any of them.

Can I ask you or anyone if the order of the story is the same between the two books (as opposed to the wording)?

[Nevo]

Can I ask you or anyone if the order of the story is the same between the two books (as opposed to the wording)?

Your question supposes that both books relate the same story. They do not. I provided a summary of the contents of the Apocalypse of Abraham in post 14. You can find a more detailed summary here. Compare that with the contents of the Book of Abraham. I think you'll notice that they're quite distinct.

If you want to delve deeper, you can read the complete text of the Apocalypse of Abraham (in the translation that Nibley used) here.

[Chris Smith]

Can I ask you or anyone if the order of the story is the same between the two books (as opposed to the wording)?

There's a longer version of the Apocalypse and a shorter version.

The shorter version, which is probably the original version, includes only Abraham's vision; it has no explanatory material to tell us when in Abraham's life this vision is supposed to have occurred. Verbal parallels to Genesis 15, however, indicate that the Apocalypse is supposed to be an expanded version of Abraham's vision in that chapter of Genesis, which would place it chronologically after Abraham left Egypt and returned to Canaan.

The longer version adds a bunch of introductory material about Terah, which changes the setting to the city of Haran in Syria, after Abraham left Chaldea but before he entered either Canaan or Egypt.

In the LDS Book of Abraham, Abraham has visions in Chaldea, Haran, and Egypt, but the big one—his vision of creation and the pre-existence—occurs in Egypt.

So if by "order" you mean "chronology," the answer is no.

[volgadon]

See post #2 for an example.

Your confidence in Nibley is misplaced.

Ap. Abr. IX Then a voice came to me speaking twice: "Abraham, Abraham!" ... "Behold, it is I; fear not for I am before the worlds ... I am a shield over thee, and I am thy helper.

Abr. 1:16. And his voice was unto me: Abraham, Abraham, behold, my name is Jehovah, and I have heard thee, and have come down to deliver thee.

This is no parallel. In the BoA, the Lord declares to Abraham that he will save him from immanent and certain death at the hands of the priest.

In contrast, the AoA passage has the Lord instructing Abraham in the proper steps to achieve ritual purity and offer sacrifice which form praxis for attaining a direct revelation of God, who will teach Abraham about the aeons. As fascinating as that is, it does little or nothing towards providing support for that particular verse in the BoA. The funny thing is that I'm saying this as a firm believer in the BoA's antiquity and authenticity. Evidence must be evaluated as evidence, even if it frustrates a particular type of apologetic argument.

[Robert F. Smith]

However, I'll be presenting in Provo on the 16th.

I'll look forward to it. Also, let's do lunch again.

[Robert F. Smith]

Following Mike Rhodes in 1992, I mentioned elsewhere on this board (post #26 at http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/53714-book-of-abraham-bulls-eye/page__hl__+apocalypse%20+of%20+abraham__st__20) that

BofA 3 parallels Apocalypse of Abraham 12 (vision of universe);

Fac 2:6 parallels Apoc Abr 18;

Fac 2:9-10 parallels Apoc Abr 12:10;

Fac 2:11 parallels Apoc Abr 21

-- all taken from Rhodes' article in FARMS Review, 4/1 (1992), 123, which can be found on the Maxwell Institute website.

[rongo]

Thanks for the comments and observations! I have things I would like to respond to, but that will have to wait until I have more time.

In the meantime, what are people's thoughts on Nibley's claim about the Testament of Abraham?

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" ‘Most recently,’ writes G. W. E. Nickelsburg, Jr., ‘the suggestion of Egyptian origin [of the Testamet of Abraham] has been spelled out in considerable detail in a Strasbourg doctoral dissertation by Francis Schmidt.’ He ‘compares the Testament of Abraham with judgment scenes in two late Egyptian documents: The Book of the Dead of Pamonthes (A.D. 63—other and much older texts would have done as well) and The Tale of Satni-Khamois (A.D. 50-100).’ The present writer has already discussed the latter work in the light of the Joseph Smith "Sensen" Papyrus. On a basis of an ‘aggregate of parallels, Schmidt finds evidence for a tentative conclusion that the Testament of Abraham used the Egyptian judgment scene as its model.’ The picture, that is, as well as the text—a drawing from the Egyptian Book of the Dead was the inspiration for the Testament of Abraham!”

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Is this an outlier from Schmidt, Nickelsburg, Nibley, et. al.?