Agitating Properly

[why me]

The key however is in the word agitation or to agitate.

v. ag·i·tat·ed, ag·i·tat·ing, ag·i·tates

v.tr.

1. To cause to move with violence or sudden force.

2. To upset; disturb: was agitated by the alarming news.

3. To arouse interest in (a cause, for example) by use of the written or spoken word; debate.

In most cases, the word applies to number 3.

Now if we look to the mormon feminists who go to the press, we can see number three very clearly. However, they can also do it with number 2 in mind...by going to the press with such news, this will agitate the mormon women and they will then write to a GA for answers. We see this in the women who made a talk and got a feminist backlash.

So, one needs to be clear on the meaning of agitation.

[changed]

The problem, however, is with the notion of 'agitating': it implies that we've figured out the solution and wish to impose it on the rest of the Church.

I agree, the problem is perhaps not accepting an answer of "no" when it is given. "Not my will, but thine be done." I wonder how many Mormon feminists would be willing to accept an answer of "no, you are not supposed to have those privileges right now"? Have they entertained the possibility that they are not merely agitating against God's servants, but against God Himself? I don't mean to sound preachy or judgmental, but it seems like a very prideful movement to me, sort of an "I know better than my bishop, and better than my Stake president, and better than the majority of the other women in the church etc. etc. ... when perhaps they should start to question "is everyone else wrong? or is it just me?"...

I'm going to repost what I have said before, because I think people really are going about this in completely the wrong way.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with wanting the priesthood, or wanting to more fully participate in everything (blessing children, prayer in GC, talks in GC, knowing more about Heavenly Mother, etc. etc.)

The problem comes when trying to find the best way to obtain these blessings. In the world, you have to fight for what you want - sign petitions, stage protests, use bumper stickers etc. etc. but I don't think the church works like that... God rewards humility/submission/meekness/discipleship/patience/charity/hope/faith/repentance/broken heart and contrite spirit...

Mosiah 3:19...becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

It seems counter-intuitive to suggest "if we are extra humble/prayerful/submissive then we will get what we want" because that certainly does not work in worldly things... but I think it does really work for religious things. I think the early women of the church were rewarded with more because they made larger sacrifices - they gave up their homes, they stood up against mobs etc. etc. None of us have to make those types of sacrifices today, and because we sacrifice less, I think we're blessed with less.

Example of someone wanting the right things (the Holy Ghost), but trying to obtain it through the wrong channels:

(New Testament | Acts 8:18 - 21)

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 9:41)

there is none other way save it be by the gate...

one of Satan's most often used lies is the lie that heavenly blessings can be obtained through some other road than repentance/humility/submission/faith/patience etc. etc. - that you can obtain lasting happiness without work, or that you could obtain love without sacrifice, or spiritual authority through "changeable suits of apparel", or Nicene type conventions/petitions/and voting parties...

Quite frankly, I think those who use these guerrilla warfare type tactics to demand their perceived entitlements from those who are legitimately called to serve do a great disservice to the more humble and deserving sisters... perhaps some humble sister would have been asked to do something like say a prayer at GC, but I don't see that happening for a long time now, because there are some who think there is "some other way" to enter into the gate.

If you really do believe that this is a church led by God, you will use His ways, and follow His councils.... otherwise it's just kicking against the pricks.

Edited February 2, 2013 by changed

[Kevin Christensen]

Those who assert that the church always works in a top-down fashion, see Todd Compton's Sunstone essay on Counter-hierarchical Revelation. He cites several examples from LDS history where the impetus for a change comes from outside the formal hierarchy.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

West Jordan, UT

[DBMormon]

In order to avoid apostasy, the only way change can happen is 'top-down'. That's because priesthood authority, priesthood keys, and stewardships are real -- not just nice ideas or outdated organising principles -- and therefore revelation works in a top-down process. That doesn't mean, however, that ideas and/or information always originate at the top. In fact, revelation seldom seems to operate in an informational vacuum (see for example the chapter headings to many of the revelations in the D&C). Consequently, my bishop has repeatedly told me that one of his greatest fears is members who won't share information or ideas with him for whatever reason, including a misguided sense of 'decorum'.

The problem, however, is with the notion of 'agitating': it implies that we've figured out the solution and wish to impose it on the rest of the Church. The correct procedure is to share helpful and honest information without presuming that we somehow have a special conduit to God, see the entire picture, etc. As Garden Girl already explained, this sometimes means providing input to higher authorities.

Case in point: When I was serving as stake exec sec several years ago, our stake president was, in my opinion, incorrectly imposing restrictions in relation to issuing new temple recommends which were not supported by Church policy. I offered him my feedback, but it went nowhere because he was convinced this is what he'd been trained to do, so then I spoke to the president of our temple. He shared my concerns and therefore passed the info along to the area president. At the very next training meeting for stake presidents, this issue was addressed directly. Problem solved.

you insist all change in the church is top down or we have apostacy but that makes the assumption that revelation occurs in a vaccum. It doesn't. Only when those in authority are made aware of issues can they then ask God about them and receive answers. Answers can only come if a question is asked.