Maidservant Posted August 6, 2012 Author Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) Beginning at verse 71 in D & C Section 76.. . . we have the following:"terrestrial world" v 71 and telestial world v98, 109 ("inhabitants of the telestial world")"they who are of the terrestrial" v 71glory differs from the Firstborn group like moon differs from sun v 71"bodies terrestrial" v 78"vision which we saw of the terrestrial" v 80"glory of the telestial" (as stars differ from moon) v 81 and also all of them spoken as glory v 89-92 and 96-98discussion of ministrations between the glories, which may be a whole other subject and which is stated in what I think is a mysterious way: for example, "and the terrestrial through the ministrations of the celestial" v 86-88My first thoughts as I engage this material is that I personally am completely lost with the word glory. I don't know what it is. I always imagine a lot of light, but still what is that? I also have in my mind that quote "The glory of God is intelligence".So can I say "the intelligence of the telestial, the intelligence of the terrestrial, the intelligence of the celestial"? hmmmm. So I would want to understand glory more deepy and what that really says about life as it will be lived. And glory is applied not only to celestial but to the lesser two conditions, so, again, exactly what is glory, how does it operate, what is its function, what are its consquences, and what does it mean for me living a real, daily life now and in eternity?I really don't know. I've been knowing I needed to crack the word glory, but haven't taken the time. I don't even know what Hebrew or Greek words are that are translated in the scriptures as 'glory'; nor English etymology. Has anyone taken the time to study anything on glory?If glory is primarily to be understood as intelligence, then what is that? Is that just another way of saying the law we are capable of obeying and the consequent fruits of that law? What capacities do these level of intelligences have (I think this might be answered in the text as it is).= = = = = = = = = = = =What I think I read in passages like D & C 76 is that the WAY "to" the celestial kingdom (or one of the others, but that's not our path hopefully) may end up being the exact same thing as the GIFT of that kingdom. What do I mean? Hmmm. How to show that. Well, okay, for example, we say that eternal marriage is a commandment that we must keep in order to obtain the celestial kingdom. But what is the "reward" for keeping that commandment? It is an eternal marriage!! The act IS the gift. This is also why I am often heard to say that there is no "going" to the celestial kingdom--there is living it, and being it. Because if you fulfill any law for it (which can only be done with the grace of the atonement also), then the treasure is in the law itself. It is the law of the harvest (which someone also brought up the restoration passages in Alma). If you plant a watermelon seed, and nurture it to its fulness, then you will have the fruit. But you don't plant a watermelon seed, and then the Watermelon Guy comes by with his cart full of watermelons and says, "Oh, good girl! I see you planted a watermelon seed! Well, since you did that, here is your watermelon!" You don't get watermelons from a Watermelon Guy. You get it from the seed. The seed is inseparable from the arrival of its fruit, over passage of time (if nurtured, etc).I think D & C 76 and all scriptures teach this. If it says "They are they who are the church of the Firstborn." What is this? Is this law? It is the act? Or is it the gift, the fruit, the arrival, the kingdom? It is both. As soon as you 1) know what the church of the Firsborn even is; and can 2) live being a member of the church of the Firstborn (by practicing by degrees and by grace); THEN you 3) ENJOY the fulness of living the church of the Firstborn.I'm not saying there aren't ordinances for these things, I am positive there are. I am positive that some experiences require recommendations by those in authority. We experience this all the time. Entry in to graduate school. Entry into the temple. Offers and acceptances of marriage proposals. So on and so forth. But each of these things are also indicative of substantial creative efforts on the part of the experiencer to become prepared for the formal entry.I think the importance of a passage of D & C 76 is that it is saying that the acts and lives of all people are not worthless. There is worth in the journey of all people even if we might categorize them as telestial or terrestrial.Another note to D & C 76, while there are several places where it talks about the element of time, I think read as a whole, the teachings in it do not necessitate the frame of "an afterlife" per se. The experiences described are possible at any present at which we may have prepared ourselves. Due to the difficulty of this work, it is likely most of us will not complete it all in mortality. Hopefully we will have done enough to show that we are still serious, though, and hope to have the opportunity to continue. (As CV75 reminded us that Joseph Smith suggested would be the case.)Anyway, I could spend years plumbing the depth of D & C 76, so I'm sure due to its volume, I've missed some things. I am going to go on in the scriptures, but by all means, bring up anything YOU want from D & C 76 at any point in this discussion, if you think its interesting or critical. Edited August 6, 2012 by Maidservant
CV75 Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 My first thoughts as I engage this material is that I personally am completely lost with the word glory. I don't know what it is. I always imagine a lot of light, but still what is that? I also have in my mind that quote "The glory of God is intelligence".I think “glory” means sanctification and justification D&C (88:33, 39), comprehension (verse 67 and others), and all the things listed in D&C 88:40, as well as all the things we take glory in (others' salvation, increase, righteousness, etc.). We experience all these things are experienced by degree, and potentially/eventually as much as God does.The act IS the gift.Yes, as love is its own reward.I am positive that some experiences require recommendations by those in authority. There is a great article (link) about this in the “New Journal On Mormon Scripture” thread. 1
Ahab Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) My first thoughts as I engage this material is that I personally am completely lost with the word glory. I don't know what it is. I always imagine a lot of light, but still what is that? I also have in my mind that quote "The glory of God is intelligence".Glory is distinguised by degree and what God meant by saying the glory of God is intelligence is that God has more intelligence than all other beings, or kinds of beings. The scriptures equate light with the ability to see truth, or what is real, and that ability comes through intelligence.So can I say "the intelligence of the telestial, the intelligence of the terrestrial, the intelligence of the celestial"?Sure, and each is distinguished by a certain degree of intelligence, with the celestial having more than them all.So I would want to understand glory more deepy and what that really says about life as it will be lived.The more you know the more you can do to make your life better, so it helps to have as much intelligence as you can get... and yes we can all get more than we have now unless we already have all there is.And glory is applied not only to celestial but to the lesser two conditions, so, again, exactly what is glory, how does it operate, what is its function, what are its consquences, and what does it mean for me living a real, daily life now and in eternity?Uh, I think I already answered those questions, but probably not as in depth as you would probably like.I really don't know. I've been knowing I needed to crack the word glory, but haven't taken the time. I don't even know what Hebrew or Greek words are that are translated in the scriptures as 'glory'; nor English etymology. Has anyone taken the time to study anything on glory?Sometimes it's just better to ask God to explain something to you. He (or they) will, don't you know.If glory is primarily to be understood as intelligence, then what is that?Think of how the CIA uses the term... regardless of how much of it they have. It's knowledge of what is, and/or was, and/or will be in the future. Wisdom is what helps you know how to apply intelligence to do the most good.Ta ta for now. Edited August 7, 2012 by Ahab
Maidservant Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 The scriptures equate light with the ability to see truth, or what is real, and that ability comes through intelligence.I like this .
Ahab Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 I like this .Just that itty bitty bit?Okay, but there's more where that came from. 1
ANACO Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) So the use of telestial, terrestrial and celestial either symbolically or actual (or both, they are not exclusive) does not seem to be taught in the past according to the records we have. We have to look to the Restoration (which is a very good place to look! ha ha).So I will post on that next (the Restoration and these symbolic devices), but in the meantime, does anyone have some favorite quotes or passages or just personal insights on this subject that they would like to share?Your conclusion is blatantly false.Alma taught the following: Alma 404 Behold, there is a time appointed that all shall come forth from the dead. Now when this time cometh no one knows; but God knoweth the time which is appointed.5 Now, whether there shall be one time, or a second time, or a third time, that men shall come forth from the dead, it mattereth not; for God knoweth all these things; and it sufficeth me to know that this is the case—that there is a time appointed that all shall rise from the dead.Kind regards. Edited August 8, 2012 by ANACO
Maidservant Posted August 8, 2012 Author Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Alma taught the following: Alma 404 Behold, there is a time appointed that all shall come forth from the dead. Now when this time cometh no one knows; but God knoweth the time which is appointed.5 Now, whether there shall be one time, or a second time, or a third time, that men shall come forth from the dead, it mattereth not; for God knoweth all these things; and it sufficeth me to know that this is the case—that there is a time appointed that all shall rise from the dead.Kind regards.Your insight into this scripture and sharing it with us is blatantly amazing! Edited August 8, 2012 by Maidservant
ANACO Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 While these terms are not used in the BOM, Alma describes the concept in Alma 40-42, the concept of restitution and restoration. We are restored to the condition that resides within us, based on our thoughts, desires and acts. Those who are filthy cannot reside in the presence of the Father, for example. There must be a place for them to reside throughout eternity.But you are correct that the fullness of the Gospel has been reveled in these last days, where such things were not clearly understood until the latter days.Oh really? So the Lord's ancient prophets were ignorant of the Fullness of the Gospel? What a novel concept.Maybe Isaiah forgot to baptize? Jeremiah never taught Faith in Jehovah? The Holy Ghost and the Priesthood was never conferred?Apparently, the term, the RESTORATION of the Gospel, is lost on some.Regards.
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