Joseph Smith And Polygamy

[why me]

The Bible indicates that Abraham, Jacob, and others of the Lord’s servants had multiple wives (see Genesis 16:1–3; 29:23–30; 30:4, 9; Judges 8:30; 1 Samuel 1:1–2). Joseph Smith asked God why He had permitted this practice and was told that God had commanded it for specific purposes. One reason given by the Lord for plural marriage is mentioned in the Book of Mormon: “If I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall [have only one wife]” (Jacob 2:30; see also v. 27).

After God revealed the doctrine of plural marriage to Joseph Smith in 1831 and commanded him to live it, the Prophet, over a period of years, cautiously taught the doctrine to some close associates. Eventually, he and a small number of Church leaders entered into plural marriages in the early years of the Church. Those who practiced plural marriage at that time, both male and female, experienced a significant trial of their faith. The practice was so foreign to them that they needed and received personal inspiration from God to help them obey the commandment.

When the Saints moved west under the direction of Brigham Young, more Latter-day Saints entered into plural marriages.

http://www.lds.org/study/topics/polygamy-plural-marriage?lang=eng&query=joseph+smith+polygamy

I see no hiding of the principle from the church website and all members are free to search for it. So what is the problem?

[ANACO]

The problem is that plural marriage is no longer practiced/taught by the Church.

It's against the law of the land. (See Articles of Faith about obeying the law.)

It was rescinded. It's against church doctrine/teachings.

And you can be excommunicated for promoting it as such.

[ERMD]

The problem is that plural marriage is no longer practiced/taught by the Church.

It's against the law of the land. (See Articles of Faith about obeying the law.)

It was rescinded. It's against church doctrine/teachings.

And you can be excommunicated for promoting it as such.

You don't understand the point.

[why me]

The problem is that plural marriage is no longer practiced/taught by the Church.

It's against the law of the land. (See Articles of Faith about obeying the law.)

It was rescinded. It's against church doctrine/teachings.

And you can be excommunicated for promoting it as such.

You are new here. My point was more simple. The lds church does not hide that Joseph practiced polygamy as critics claim. Many exmormons have claimed that the church hides Joseph's polygamy. It doesn't. It is on the church's official website. And that was my point for all lurkers here: one can read it on the lds.org site with a good explanation.

[Rob Bowman]

I don't think anyone claims that the LDS Church avoids any reference whatsoever to plural marriage in any and every context. If that's what you mean by "hiding of the principle," no one, to my knowledge, asserts such a thing. However, the LDS Church often omits any reference to the practice in contexts where such information would be illuminating. For example, the Manti "Mormon Miracle Pageant," which I watched for the first time last week, has absolutely no references to the practice (or even any reference to Emma Smith). The Pageant heavily emphasizes the opposition that Mormons experienced in the days of Joseph and Brigham, but one would never know that the practice of plural marriage was one of the main reasons for that opposition.

It is also a fact that the practice was kept secret for much of the time it was practiced. It was, of course, kept secret prior to Brigham Young's making the practice public after settling in Utah. The practice also continued secretly for years after the 1890 Manifesto; it was the Reed Smoot controversy, not Woodruff's declaration, that actually ended the practice within the LDS Church.

If you have a couple of examples of ex-Mormons or other critics alleging that the LDS Church never in any context mentions or discusses the practice of plural marriage, I'd be interested to see them.

[Darren10]

You are new here. My point was more simple. The lds church does not hide that Joseph practiced polygamy as critics claim. Many exmormons have claimed that the church hides Joseph's polygamy. It doesn't. It is on the church's official website. And that was my point for all lurkers here: one can read it on the lds.org site with a good explanation.

Yup, it's there. I just now finished looking at it by clicking on your link to it.

[Darren10]

I don't think anyone claims that the LDS Church avoids any reference whatsoever to plural marriage in any and every context. If that's what you mean by "hiding of the principle," no one, to my knowledge, asserts such a thing. However, the LDS Church often omits any reference to the practice in contexts where such information would be illuminating. For example, the Manti "Mormon Miracle Pageant," which I watched for the first time last week, has absolutely no references to the practice (or even any reference to Emma Smith). The Pageant heavily emphasizes the opposition that Mormons experienced in the days of Joseph and Brigham, but one would never know that the practice of plural marriage was one of the main reasons for that opposition.

It is also a fact that the practice was kept secret for much of the time it was practiced. It was, of course, kept secret prior to Brigham Young's making the practice public after settling in Utah. The practice also continued secretly for years after the 1890 Manifesto; it was the Reed Smoot controversy, not Woodruff's declaration, that actually ended the practice within the LDS Church.

If you have a couple of examples of ex-Mormons or other critics alleging that the LDS Church never in any context mentions or discusses the practice of plural marriage, I'd be interested to see them.

While I think you are strictly-speaking correct, there is the advocacy by LDS critics that the LDS Church makes the practice a secret. While the LDS church does not promote the idea of polygamy, (why should it?), in many of its official portrayals of its history, it does not hold it secret from the world.

[why me]

If you have a couple of examples of ex-Mormons or other critics alleging that the LDS Church never in any context mentions or discusses the practice of plural marriage, I'd be interested to see them.

My gosh Rob, you have been around a long time. You know that many have claimed this. It goes like this: Oh my gosh, I never knew that Joseph practiced polygamy. No where is it mentioned by the church...I am so disappointed in the church for not telling me and that I had to find out from a critic site....my testimony is now in ruins....the church lied to me.

You have never heard this claim made? I have seen something like many times during my time on the boards. But the church explains it quite well. In fact, it takes my position that I have given to the critics over and over again: when practiced, difficult for all, women needed inspiration from god to accept, etc. Who knows maybe someone from the church COB read my posts. Nay, probably not.

But I see no hiding from lds.org.

[Thinking]

http://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&query=polyandry

[why me]

While I think you are strictly-speaking correct, there is the advocacy by LDS critics that the LDS Church makes the practice a secret. While the LDS church does not promote the idea of polygamy, (why should it?), in many of its official portrayals of its history, it does not hold it secret from the world.

Critics have claimed, and I am referring to active internet exmembers, that the church hides the fact that Joseph practiced polygamy. For many, they claim that they never knew this. But there it is on the church website. No hiding.

[Darren10]

Rob;

As for the Reed Sm,oot case ending polygamy, I don't think that's actually correct. It was the LDS Church's ban and then a reiteration of that ban which ended polygamy. And it was not practiced in secret after the Manifesto to my knowledge. At least not with the leader's knowledge (and blessing) of its practice.

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

Official Declaration 1

[Rob Bowman]

Darren,

You wrote:

While I think you are strictly-speaking correct, there is the advocacy by LDS critics that the LDS Church makes the practice a secret.

I would appreciate a specific example of "critics" making this claim.

[Darren10]

Critics have claimed, and I am referring to active internet exmembers, that the church hides the fact that Joseph practiced polygamy. For many, they claim that they never knew this. But there it is on the church website. No hiding.

I agree. There's no way they "never knew" of polygamy in the LDS Church's history.

[why me]

http://www.lds.org/s...query=polyandry

For the lds.org both are interchangeable. Most people have never heard of the word polyandry. Go on the street and begin to ask people as they come out of 7/11 if they have heard of polyandry and see what happens. However, polygamy is there, when it started, and by whom and why. And how many had difficulties with it and needed inspiration from god to accept it. Not bad. But good try at a deflect.

[why me]

Darren,

You wrote:

I would appreciate a specific example of "critics" making this claim.

Go to exmormon boards and read it for yourself. It comes up quite often. And I do think that you know this.

[Rob Bowman]

why me,

You wrote:

My gosh Rob, you have been around a long time. You know that many have claimed this. It goes like this: Oh my gosh, I never knew that Joseph practiced polygamy. No where is it mentioned by the church...I am so disappointed in the church for not telling me and that I had to find out from a critic site....my testimony is now in ruins....the church lied to me.

I have no doubt that former Mormons have said, and said accurately, that they did not know that Joseph practiced polygamy, that the church did not tell them, and that they learned about it from an outside source. If they said that the church has never mentioned it, they would be incorrect. So what I asked was for examples of "critics" (your term) alleging that the LDS Church has never acknowledged the practice.

It is also likely that in many cases what troubles Mormons is not the discovery that Joseph practiced polygamy but some of the details about the matter -- such as his marriages to other men's wives.

[Rob Bowman]

why me and Darren,

I've been patient and courteous, and you are dancing around the question. Telling me to go to a message board and look for myself is not an adequate answer. So now I will make it an official CFR. Please provide me with two examples of "critics" asserting that the LDS Church has never acknowledged Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Rob Bowman

[Darren10]

Darren,

I would appreciate a specific example of "critics" making this claim.

I Binged "exmormons who never knew of polygamy" and here's from one hit (bold mine):

I probably would have happily continued to “believe in the absence of evidence to the contrary”, because the evidence would have remained tucked away and hidden in the books and websites of the dreaded Anti-Mormon conspiracy, (aka Satan’s minions) and I would never have known that it was Joseph who started the practice of polygamy

That's a critical reply to Thomas S. Monson's open armed call for exmormons to return tothe Church. The author of that piost claims he never would have known that Joseph Smith began plygamy had he (the author) not began to read anti-Mormon literature.

I say hogwash. There's no way the author, "Astarte Moonsilver", with any time in the LDS Church, would NOT have known Joseph Smith began polygamy.

General Conference April 2008: Thomas Monson Wants Ex-Mormons to Come Back

[why me]

why me,

You wrote:

I have no doubt that former Mormons have said, and said accurately, that they did not know that Joseph practiced polygamy, that the church did not tell them, and that they learned about it from an outside source. If they said that the church has never mentioned it, they would be incorrect. So what I asked was for examples of "critics" (your term) alleging that the LDS Church has never acknowledged the practice.

.

I will try this again: having been on the internet defending the lds church for years now, I have come across many people claiming that the church hides the fact that Joseph Practiced polygamy. That was my point. And when they discovered that joseph practiced polygamy from antimormon boards, they became very disillusioned with the lds church.

[ANACO]

I did miss your point: That Joseph Smith entered into it. I knew this.

I thought you were referring to the practice itself.

Thank you.

Kind regards.

[Darren10]

For those new here and questioning thier faith, here is some interesting facts about Smith and polygamy. I was a true blue mormon MANY years and never even KNEW JS [Joseph Smith] practiced polygamy, let alone with young teenagers. (Helen Mar Kimball was 14, Fanny Alger was 16)

Ummmm, yeah, sure you didn't. I was taught this in seminary.

(Link to this site is not allowed here)

[Darren10]

So now I will make it an official CFR

What's a CFR?

[Darren10]

why me,

You wrote:

It is also likely that in many cases what troubles Mormons is not the discovery that Joseph practiced polygamy but some of the details about the matter -- such as his marriages to other men's wives.

But that's not polygamy.

[why me]

why me,

It is also likely that in many cases what troubles Mormons is not the discovery that Joseph practiced polygamy but some of the details about the matter -- such as his marriages to other men's wives.

There is also a problem with the word polyandry. And I bring this up because of the poster 'Thinking' mentioned it. From Stanford, polyandry means: The mating of one female with more than one male while each male mates with only one female is known as polyandry (literally, "many males").

http://www.stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Polyandry.html

Obviously this is not what joseph did. The word can be confusing outside of the way the critics of the lds church use that word. Much better to say polygamy as a general concept as to what happened with Joseph Smith. Also, since polyandry is mainly about women taking on many men as husbands, Joseph did not actually practice polyandry.

Here is an example:

She decided to practice polyandry and got herself a second husband.

"Most religions are against polyandry" [it means "many men", referring to the marriage of one woman with more than one man]

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_use_polyandry_in_a_sentence#ixzz1zidAnCqc

How should the church teach polyandry?

[why me]

Ummmm, yeah, sure you didn't. I was taught this in seminary.

(Link to this site is not allowed here)

I was too lazy to help Rob out. But many here defending the church can point to many instances from exmembers on exmember boards making this claim.