CASteinman Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Not surprising, though, that the book was written for a 19th century audience, given what the book says about universalism, Calvinism, Freemasonry, deism, the "heathen problem," etc.The Book of Mormon does not really speak of those things. It does speak of some other things that are modern, but not those things.
CASteinman Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 All roads lead to Rome, it's just that some of us have taken the scenic route, others the freeway.If it is Rome, set on 7 hills, they might all be scenic and winding and sometimes scary.But its a very narrow and strait road that leads to the Kingdom of Heaven. Well, according to Jesus. Maybe not according to regular people.
mfbukowski Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Today, that same eight lanes will only be going about ten miles per hour! I love these travel analogies. The church I'm going to, at present, claims to be the "airplane to God". God's "time" is not our time, so I'm sure he sees all of this very differently than we do.I had an interesting travel thought once on a cross country flight. As usual we were above 30,000 feet, probably traveling at 550 mph or so, and I looked around and saw a housefly buzzing around the cabin, looking for for some food, I am sure, as he always did.He of course was totally oblivious to the fact that he was actually flying just a tad higher than he thought he was, and a tad faster as well with no idea of what the "reality" was beyond his little fly's perception of things, buzzing around looking for a morsel of food, just as he always had done throughout his short previous life as a fly.Yes, I agree.There's no way we can understand God's "reality" any more than that fly could understand my silly human perception of "reality" that day. Suddenly I felt a lot of kinship with that little fly.
Log Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) And then someone caught you with a pair of chopsticks. Edited June 12, 2012 by Log
Libs Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 There's no way we can understand God's "reality" any more than that fly could understand my silly human perception of "reality" that day. Suddenly I felt a lot of kinship with that little fly.So true!
mfbukowski Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 If it is Rome, set on 7 hills, they might all be scenic and winding and sometimes scary.But its a very narrow and strait road that leads to the Kingdom of Heaven. Well, according to Jesus. Maybe not according to regular people.Not QUITE what it actually says- "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.""Strait" of course does not mean the same thing as "straight"- in fact it means "narrow" as in the "Straits of Gibraltar".It also says that "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ", at least that is what I was thinking about with the Rome analogy.The GATE however I think to the Celestial Kingdom is indeed very narrow and not that easy to find, but there are lots of those gates in every temple we have, covered with some cloth and someone to ask us questions to see if we are qualified. And indeed squeezing through those curtains makes for a narrow passage indeed.But that's the gate, not the path. The way the truth and the life is not that hard to find, and we have assurance that everyone will find it. The gate is another matter. 1
mfbukowski Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) And then someone caught you with a pair of chopsticks.LOL I saw both those movies! I liked the older one better! Edited June 12, 2012 by mfbukowski
Log Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 But that's the gate, not the path. The way the truth and the life is not that hard to find, and we have assurance that everyone will find it. The gate is another matter.The path is beyond the gate: "18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive."And yes, the first one was better. Have you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFlQNtL8F9s
CASteinman Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) The GATE however I think to the Celestial Kingdom is indeed very narrow and not that easy to find, but there are lots of those gates in every temple we have, covered with some cloth and someone to ask us questions to see if we are qualified. And indeed squeezing through those curtains makes for a narrow passage indeed.If we are precisely in line with what the scriptures say, the Gate is Baptism. Baptism into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Edited June 12, 2012 by CASteinman
Log Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) I believe it's more than simply baptism - it's repentance + baptism by water + baptism by fire. Or, at the very least, if one actually enters in by the gate, if it is solely repentance and baptism by water, then the baptism by fire necessarily follows, and THEN you are on the path. 17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and abaptism by water; and then cometh a bremission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.18 And then are ye in this astrait and narrow bpath which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which cwitnesses of the dFather and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow apath, I would ask if all is bdone? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken cfaith in him, drelying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to esave.20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a asteadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of bhope, and a clove of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and dendure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eeternal life.21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the away; and there is bnone other way nor cname given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the ddoctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the eFather, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is fone God, without end. Amen.Thus we see there are many who mill around the gate, but never enter and embark upon the path. Edited June 12, 2012 by Log
mfbukowski Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) And yes, the first one was better. Have you seen this?No, I hadn't- great stuff, especially the fly.But clearly post-Fleetwood Mac (PFM) so you should have known that I would not have seen it. All music ended with them, everything else is just derivative noise. Edited June 12, 2012 by mfbukowski
CASteinman Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) And yes, the first one was better. Have you seen this? (sweep the leg)Never saw it before. Have watched or listened to it about 6 or 7 times now. Edited June 12, 2012 by CASteinman
Log Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Never saw it before. Have watched or listened to it about 6 or 7 times now.Hehehe, it's great, ain't it? They got the entire surviving male cast of The Karate Kid to be in it... Edited June 12, 2012 by Log
mfbukowski Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) delete Edited June 12, 2012 by mfbukowski
Log Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 It's just as well, I was about to say "I would not crack such jokes if I were you!"...
Aliwe Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 I personally have tired of Latter-Day Saints who act as if they are God's chosen people because they were born into a church. Yipeeeeeee, you and I are part of 2% of the world that landed in the church.Is that 2 percent figure given in all seriousness? Because it would imply 140 million Mormons, a full order of magnitude greater than the actual figure.
Robert F. Smith Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) How Can The Bom Be Inspired But Not Historical?Three weeks ago, DBMormon began this OP with that question. In light of our discussion we might phrase the question somewhat differently:How Can Mormonism Be True But Fictional?I just saw a PBS-TV program in which the filmmaker, Jennifer Fox, claimed that her POV film "My Reincarnation" (2012) is fictional but true. It is a very charming and provocative film about some aspects of Tibetan religion seen through the life of one particular family. You can see it online at http://video.pbs.org/video/2243180699 .This approach to truth and the fictions which sometimes accompany it, can also be found expressed somewhat differently (but beautifully) in Donald S. Lopez, Jr., Prisoners of Shangri-La: Tibetan Buddhism and the West (Univ. of Chicago Press, 1998). His expert debunking of some very wrong western notions about the nature of TIbetan Buddhism reminds me very much of some similarly wrongheaded notions about Mormonism. Even Mormons themselves begin to believe their own folklore, only to find the anti-Mormons flinging it back in their faces with Satanic glee.Learn from this, Grasshopper! Edited June 23, 2012 by Robert F. Smith 1
Aliwe Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 I just saw a PBS-TV program in which the filmmaker, Jennifer Fox, claimed that her POV film "My Reincarnation" (2012) is fictional but true. That reminds me of Rathergate involving a document critical of George W. Bush cooked up on Microsoft Word for Windows (2004) and put across as typewritten by the Texas Air National Guard in 1973. When called on it, defenders described it as fake but accurate.In answer to the query of the topic, the book of Jonah is surely a piece of religious fiction, inspired of God but not historical.
DBMormon Posted June 23, 2012 Author Posted June 23, 2012 ALIWE - you have only been a member for a day. You have already posted over 115 times. You seem reckless. Almost intentionally going into every thread quickly finding some quote to post on and replying without reading the whole thread and having any idea of what the discussion is on. Slow down, people will take you more serious if look more methodical.
Aliwe Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 ALIWE - you have only been a member for a day. You have already posted over 115 times Yeah. Hey, I move upon the waters now.You seem reckless. Almost intentionally going into every thread quickly finding some quote to post on and replying without reading the whole thread and having any idea of what the discussion is on. Slow down, people will take you more serious if look more methodical.I don't know what's going on in the threads about Dan, or cover-ups, or institutes, so I'm not posting in there. But inevitably (and I see it already) things sill progress in such a way that I will be banned, because I'm supposed to be asking questions and waiting for enlightenment, not supplying answers. Thus it was on LDS.net. Hence the front-loaded presence.
Robert F. Smith Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 ALIWE - you have only been a member for a day. You have already posted over 115 times. You seem reckless. Almost intentionally going into every thread quickly finding some quote to post on and replying without reading the whole thread and having any idea of what the discussion is on. Slow down, people will take you more serious if look more methodical.Yeh, but she makes some useful observations and even seems like a breath of fresh air. Maybe she senses a party atmosphere and is making the rounds.
mfbukowski Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Yeah. Hey, I move upon the waters now.I don't know what's going on in the threads about Dan, or cover-ups, or institutes, so I'm not posting in there. But inevitably (and I see it already) things sill progress in such a way that I will be banned, because I'm supposed to be asking questions and waiting for enlightenment, not supplying answers. Thus it was on LDS.net. Hence the front-loaded presence.Supplying answers?
maxrep12 Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 It is not possible to be inspired but not historical. If it is not historical then it is a lie.wrong. Case in point: Brother Paul H. Dunn was INSPIRED and yet his narrative was not historical. Surely this is not the only instance of a church leader lending inspiration to a narrative thag did not have actual history as its backdrop?
inquiringmind Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) wrong. Case in point: Brother Paul H. Dunn was INSPIRED and yet his narrative was not historical. Surely this is not the only instance of a church leader lending inspiration to a narrative thag did not have actual history as its backdrop?I thought Paul H. Dunn admitted lying, apologized for it, and was disciplined for it.Why do you say he was inspired?And what narative are you saying was inspired?Was it one about his baseball career, or his adventures during WWII? Edited June 23, 2012 by inquiringmind 2
maxrep12 Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 I thought Paul H. Dunn admitted lying, apologized for it, and was disciplined for it.Why do you say he was inspired?And what narative are you saying was inspired?Was it one about his baseball career, or his adventures during WWII?He was inspired because all who heard felt the spirit testifying of the truthfullness of the principles that were conveyed during the telling of his war experiences.He apologized when he was caught. Not everyone who lies while teaching gospel truths are caught.
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