Question(S) For My Evangelical Friends

[blooit]

I was raised by a biblical scholar. You will not find a stronger advocate for the Bible among Latter Day Saints. I was encouraged to attend church with friends of other faiths. I grew up listening to sermons by pastors and teachers from churches other than my own. I continue to listen to any music, sermon, or teaching that might add to what I know. I really believe that anything virtuous, good, or praiseworthy should be sought after.

I may recognize fundamental differences at times between my faith and the teachings of my friends from other churches, but those differences are rarely substantial enough to cause me to refuse to listen to those teachings that might uplift me.

My question is, are my evangelical friends also comfortable listening to the teachings of my faith? Are your differences with Latter Day Saints so significant that you cannot listen to a great talk from conference, or a great song by Gladys Knight or Alex Boye? Why won't KLOVE and AIR1 play songs by great LDS artists if those songs don't conflict with fundamental evangelical beliefs? Are there times when a pastor might cite a great LDS sermon as long as it is compatible with their teachings?" Do you really look into the eyes of our leaders (and our members) and see evil men, or do you at least see a sincere pursuit of what is right? Is it possible that we are not really as different as it so often seems?

[MattC]

Matt's post moved here

[3DOP]

Hey Matt...

Not often enough perhaps, but once in a while a Mormon prophet will speak or an LDS artist will sing or play without referencing "official LDS beliefs" about the moon and its inhabitants. Sometimes, their beliefs agree with mine. I am not evangelical, so I won't give my answer, but as a non-Mormon I thought your truly extensive answer completely evaded the question.

Edited April 1, 2012 by 3DOP

[bluebell]

There's a remarkable amount of archaeological evidence that gives the Bible credibility as an accurate historical record. Why is there no archaeological evidence to substantiate the people, places, events, and artifacts in The Book of Mormon

What would archaeological evidence in support of the Book of Mormon look like?

[bluebell]

Why does the LDS church still include Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris as credible witnesses to The Book of Mormon's legitimacy? All three, and other witnesses, later rejected Joseph Smith as a true prophet and left the Mormon church.

Because, despite the fact that they all at some point were enemies of Joseph Smith, none ever renounced their testimony of the Book of Mormon, so their testimonies are still applicable to the subject. In fact, given their later feelings for JS, their testimonies hold even more weight than they would had none of the men ever left the church.

[bluebell]

bluebell...

Your response is understandable. But you'll let him run away off-topic. Make him answer the question.

If i thought he had any intention of answering the question, i would agree with you. I don't believe posted in this thread for that reason though. I think he's using the thread as a platform to highlight all the weaknesses that he believes exists in the LDS religion.

And though i don't believe answers will necessarily help him either, maybe they'll help someone else lurking to look into things for themselves rather than just to believe everything they read.

Edited April 1, 2012 by bluebell

[bluebell]

Why do Mormons accept teachings about the avoidance of tea and coffee, but disregard teachings about only eating meat in times of cold or famine?

Mostly because we believe that not all commandments are equal in the Word of Wisdom,....and we're not perfect.

[Nominee]

Why do Mormons accept teachings about the avoidance of tea and coffee, but disregard teachings about only eating meat in times of cold or famine?

All Mormons do NOT disregard teachings about only eating meat in times of cold or famine.

Bluebell,

I appreciate what you are doing here.

[3DOP]

If i thought he had any intention of answering the question, i would agree with you. I don't believe posted in this thread for that reason though. I think he's using the thread as a platform to highlight all the weaknesses that he believes exists in the LDS religion.

And though i don't believe answers will necessarily help him either, maybe they'll help someone else lurking to look into things for themselves rather than just to believe everything they read.

Fair enough bluebell...I post for lurkers too sometimes. I understand. Makes sense. The topic was a good one though too. I hope it doesn't get lost.

[Nominee]

Fair enough bluebell...I post for lurkers too sometimes. I understand. Makes sense. The topic was a good one though too. I hope it doesn't get lost.

I say we let Bluebell get this out of the way so lurkers are served and we can get back to the great topic! For I agree, the OP is a good one.

[blooit]

MattC:

That's a pretty serious thread hijacking... If sincere, I hope you find answers that are readily available to your questions. This is pretty easy stuff and I'm a little surprised at how uninformed some of your concerns are. No offense intended, because we all have "skeletons in our closet" but these aren't them.

If I can bring the topic back to the original question - I still have the same one(s) - do you look for the good, even if you disagree with other aspects?

[GingerRed]

Wow Matt! That's a lot of misconceptions you got going there! Like Bluebell said, you go off on so many different tangents, its going to be hard to address everything all at once! Everything you've posted has been answered many times already on these forums. But I'm sure there are posters on here who will gladly answer your concerns.

Let me just say this. I am a convert. I joined the church in Dec 1978 in San Francisco. I was 21. I had just barely heard the proclamation about all worthy males given the Priesthood months before.. I didn't even know there WAS a ban. The ward I had been attending as I was investigating had a few black members so it wasn't really anything I thought about. So it didn't concern me.

I also did my own praying and pondering and fasting as my missionaries asked me to. I didn't need to go searching through outside material to find my answers. It took me 4 months to get my answer, though as I didn't want to just dive blindly in. I spent time with my new Mormon friends who were the young single adults, watching and observing. I went to church. I went to activities. I asked questions. For me, the only way to find out about Mormonism, was to hang out with the Mormons! The proof was in the pudding, so to speak. There was no internet back then...I didn't have the desire to go searching through the library. So I prayed some more. And my answer I received from God, needed no doubt.

I know you think all those people who told you to pray and get your own answers, is just some kind of pat answer. But it really is the way to know the truth. it worked for me. I joined the church without really knowing much about the history....or the unusual doctrines...or some of the other concerns you have. I found out about all those things later down the road....the whole polygamy controversy....the MMM.....Kolob...yadda yadda. But for me, it makes no difference. My testimony grew strong long before then. Once the Holy Ghost touches you and tells you this is it, this is where you belong....nothing anyone says can tear me away.

Being on these forums has been very educational...lol. I'm fascinated by it all, good and bad, really. But nothing shakes my faith. And believe me, I've had enough trials and bad stuff in my life that could have made me bolt a long time ago! But like they say...if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger. I am not perfect. But I believe in striving for excellence...not perfection.

.

Red

[followerofemmanuel]

If i thought he had any intention of answering the question, i would agree with you. I don't believe posted in this thread for that reason though. I think he's using the thread as a platform to highlight all the weaknesses that he believes exists in the LDS religion.

And though i don't believe answers will necessarily help him either, maybe they'll help someone else lurking to look into things for themselves rather than just to believe everything they read.

I appreciate you taking the time answering these questions. I would not say that I am a "lurker" here (maybe I am by someones definition). I am here to learn and understand more about the LDS faith. When people post questions here (or misconceptions as it seems in this case) it helps me (and others I assume too) when those questions are answered. Some of us are new here and have not read previous threads, know all the challenges etc. I did not have these questions personally, but once they were presented then I found myself wanting to understand too. Again thank you bluebell

[Minos]

I'm going to TEMPORARILY close this thread to prevent total derailment. Off-topic posters or someone else can paste their posts into a new thread before they are deleted.

[Minos]

Bumping this back up. Some but not all off-topic posts were removed. Go here for follow-up and stay on topic here. (Thanks to Calmoriah)

[followerofemmanuel]

I was raised by a biblical scholar. You will not find a stronger advocate for the Bible among Latter Day Saints. I was encouraged to attend church with friends of other faiths. I grew up listening to sermons by pastors and teachers from churches other than my own. I continue to listen to any music, sermon, or teaching that might add to what I know. I really believe that anything virtuous, good, or praiseworthy should be sought after.

I may recognize fundamental differences at times between my faith and the teachings of my friends from other churches, but those differences are rarely substantial enough to cause me to refuse to listen to those teachings that might uplift me.

My question is, are my evangelical friends also comfortable listening to the teachings of my faith? Are your differences with Latter Day Saints so significant that you cannot listen to a great talk from conference, or a great song by Gladys Knight or Alex Boye? Why won't KLOVE and AIR1 play songs by great LDS artists if those songs don't conflict with fundamental evangelical beliefs? Are there times when a pastor might cite a great LDS sermon as long as it is compatible with their teachings?" Do you really look into the eyes of our leaders (and our members) and see evil men, or do you at least see a sincere pursuit of what is right? Is it possible that we are not really as different as it so often seems?

I enjoy listening to anything that glorifies God. There has been great music exchange on the "songs that draw you into deeper worship". I have listened to every post on there...even the silly ones. One of my all time favorites was my first post "Our Father", Beautifully done. I have listened to music on the mormon.org website (I believe it was there) and have learned a lot from the resources the LDS church has put out.

I enjoy my learning here too!

[Rob Bowman]

blooit,

You wrote:

I was raised by a biblical scholar.

It's none of my business, of course, but I admit to being curious who that biblical scholar is.

You asked:

My question is, are my evangelical friends also comfortable listening to the teachings of my faith? Are your differences with Latter Day Saints so significant that you cannot listen to a great talk from conference, or a great song by Gladys Knight or Alex Boye? Why won't KLOVE and AIR1 play songs by great LDS artists if those songs don't conflict with fundamental evangelical beliefs? Are there times when a pastor might cite a great LDS sermon as long as it is compatible with their teachings?" Do you really look into the eyes of our leaders (and our members) and see evil men, or do you at least see a sincere pursuit of what is right? Is it possible that we are not really as different as it so often seems?

You've asked several questions here that really need to be kept distinct. Speaking for myself, I do not view each and every Mormon as an evil person. I think some are and most are not, at least no more so than people generally. I cannot judge the sincerity of each person. (I do think some individuals leave a significant enough trail of evidence to reach an informed, sensible judgment as to his or her sincerity, either yea or nay. That's true of some evangelicals as well.) As to how different we are, it all depends on the context you mean. We are not all that different in many respects. We are very different theologically and religiously.

An evangelical might personally have no problem listening to a conference address and even find much to agree with in it, or listening with enjoyment to a song performed by a Mormon or by the MTC. But that doesn't mean it would be appropriate for an evangelical Christian radio station to play songs by Mormons or for an evangelical pastor to cite a Mormon sermon as simply part of his own message. Doing either of these things in those contexts would, as I see it, convey a tacit endorsement or approval of Mormonism.

[Vance]

Doing either of these things in those contexts would, as I see it, convey a tacit endorsement or approval of Mormonism.

And heaven forbid that ever happen, right?

[Grundelwalken]

An evangelical might personally have no problem listening to a conference address and even find much to agree with in it, or listening with enjoyment to a song performed by a Mormon or by the MTC. But that doesn't mean it would be appropriate for an evangelical Christian radio station to play songs by Mormons or for an evangelical pastor to cite a Mormon sermon as simply part of his own message. Doing either of these things in those contexts would, as I see it, convey a tacit endorsement or approval of Mormonism.

It seems to me that, in your view, the moniker "Mormon" must immediately eliminate any truth or goodness expounded by an individual. So a fine singer like Alex Boye', who has sung many non-denominational songs, would not be played on a 'christian' radio station because he is a 'mormon'? I'm sorry for your loss because by that standard I would miss much of the wonderful reading and learning I have received from men like C.S. Lewis. And, despite his personal disdain for Latter-day Saints, I have found Lewis to be a treasure trove of truth in my personal and professional teaching activities. Why would you want to lose truth when it is there to receive? I feel badly for you and those who live by that standard. MW

[KevinG]

The well is poisoned thoroughly.

[cdowis]

Youtube videos suggest the following answer:

Mormon leaders gave ten hours of talks primarily about various aspects of *works*, and very little about the grace of God. They emphasize that individuals are responsible for their own salvation, thru the works of the law, rather than salvation through the blood of Jesus, and His finished work on the cross.

Edited April 2, 2012 by cdowis

[NobodyFamous]

As a recent LDS convert, I agree that some evangelicals have a knee-jerk reaction to anything "Mormon" but they are a small minority. After all, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir couldn't have traveled the world many times over singing only for the faithful. And certainly, black Protestants haven't disowned our beloved Gladys Knight because she joined the Church (by the way, is she still LDS?).

As for not quoting from great LDS talks, that is largely a result of the lack of exposure to them. For instance, Protestant preachers have no problem quoting Ghandi. Yet, I had never heard a single LDS talk before becoming an investigator. How would I have? Protestant preachers are all over the TV dial on Sunday mornings but you must look pretty hard to find an LDS sermon. Also, to be fair, given the more theatrical nature of Protestant sermons, it's not likely that an LDS sermon would capture the attention of a Protestant preacher.

And if we were look to see the "plank in our own eyes," we'd probably have to ask why aren't more open to some Protestant practices? It is my understanding that hand-clapping foot-stomping gospel music is frowned upon in our churches. Likewise, we also seem to frown upon outward expressions of worship that are prevalent amongst our more charismatic Christian brothers and sisters. And while we certainly should feel free to have our own cultural "style," I suspect that we sometimes confuse preference with piety and look down on those methods of worship of being less righteous than our more conservative approach.

Just a thought ...

[zerinus]

As a recent LDS convert, I agree that some evangelicals have a knee-jerk reaction to anything "Mormon" but they are a small minority. After all, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir couldn't have traveled the world many times over singing only for the faithful. And certainly, black Protestants haven't disowned our beloved Gladys Knight because she joined the Church (by the way, is she still LDS?).

As for not quoting from great LDS talks, that is largely a result of the lack of exposure to them. For instance, Protestant preachers have no problem quoting Ghandi. Yet, I had never heard a single LDS talk before becoming an investigator. How would I have? Protestant preachers are all over the TV dial on Sunday mornings but you must look pretty hard to find an LDS sermon. Also, to be fair, given the more theatrical nature of Protestant sermons, it's not likely that an LDS sermon would capture the attention of a Protestant preacher.

And if we were look to see the "plank in our own eyes," we'd probably have to ask why aren't more open to some Protestant practices? It is my understanding that hand-clapping foot-stomping gospel music is frowned upon in our churches. Likewise, we also seem to frown upon outward expressions of worship that are prevalent amongst our more charismatic Christian brothers and sisters. And while we certainly should feel free to have our own cultural "style," I suspect that we sometimes confuse preference with piety and look down on those methods of worship of being less righteous than our more conservative approach.

Just a thought ...

Good comments. One point you overlooked (or maybe had not observed) is that there are Evangelical preachers who actively preach against Mormonism to their congregations, and seek to prejudice their minds against it. And it does have the desired effect on at least some of those who attend their congregations.

[Rob Bowman]

Grundelwalken,

You wrote:

It seems to me that, in your view, the moniker "Mormon" must immediately eliminate any truth or goodness expounded by an individual.

No. Nothing I said even implies such a thing. Practically everyone expresses some truth or goodness in their speech or music. Did I not say the following?

"An evangelical might personally have no problem listening to a conference address and even find much to agree with in it, or listening with enjoyment to a song performed by a Mormon or by the MTC."

Edited April 2, 2012 by Rob Bowman

[NobodyFamous]

Good comments. One point you overlooked (or maybe had not observed) is that there are Evangelical preachers who actively preach against Mormonism to their congregations, and seek to prejudice their minds against it. And it does have the desired effect on at least some of those who attend their congregations.

Now, you're not suggesting that there are churches out there who believe that they possess the true gospel and that those who differ in their teachings will not receive all of the blessings of God, are you? (Tongue firmly in cheek)

Once again, it goes back to the plank in our eyes. We are certainly nicer in our rhetoric and almost never trash other faith traditions. In fact, our diplomacy is one of the things that most impressed my wife when we were investigating the church. That being said (and please correct me if I'm wrong), I can't imagine my bishop counseling our youth to "give Catholicism a chance." Sure, he wouldn't make up lies about them nor distort their doctrines (as sometimes happens with evangelicals), but he would be firm that our belief in the restoration is the only "true" belief and that only our church has the authority to conduct the ordinances necessary for exaltation.

Also, from my experience, anti-Mormon teaching is rare outside of the Mormon corridor. Until I moved to Arizona, I had never heard a single mention of Mormonism in church. Here in Arizona, I've found that many churches don't broach the topic at all and those that do will devote about one sermon per year warning against the "deceptions of Mormonism." In truth, my conversion is pretty good evidence that those teachings are not very effective. Most of them center around de-emphasized doctrines or distortions of fact that pale in comparison to the loving Christian kindness exhibited by their LDS neighbors and co-workers. In that way, I think that anti-Mormon teachings work in much the same way that racist teachings work -- the reflect much more negatively on the anti-Mormon and engender empathy towards the believer.