Damien the Leper Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 http://latter-dayseekers.org/I was recently referred to this site by a Community of Christ friend of mine. I thought it provoking and well put together. The site is copyrighted to Apostle Dale Luffman. Luffman is the Apostle over the following:Ecumenical and Interfaith RelationshipsDisciple Formation Resource ConsultantTheological EducationSpecial Missionary ProjectsSingles MinistryResource: Community of Christ official siteCommunity of Christ does not proselyte faithful, active Latter-day Saints. Instead, we seek fellowship and dialogue with all members of the Restoration.But, in the model of our Master, we do invite all who are heavy laden, disenchanted, frustrated, or lost to come and see what God can do for their lives in Community of Christ. If you are a disaffected Latter-day Saint, we invite you to consider the Restoration anew. Before you leave the Restoration, or Christianity altogether, please consider our offer of sanctuary. We invite you to experience the peace of God in Community of Christ.From the Restoration category:This call was received by the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr. He understood his mission as restoring the church from apostasy to purity and power. His followers, believing themselves to be the latter-day inheritors of Jesus' first-century church, declared that they belonged to the only true and living church on the face of the earth. They also looked down on Christianity at large, and the world, seeing both as fallen.We honor the call of the Restoration and of the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr. We uphold that Community of Christ "was brought into being by divine initiative, is guided and administered by divine authority, is sustained by the light of the Holy Spirit, and exists for divine purposes." But we have matured in our understanding of the one true church and our tradition's call from God.Today, we seek to be a true church--recognizing that the church belongs to Christ alone, and transcends any earthly institution or doctrine. We seek to restore ourselves and all of creation to the plan of salvation through Christ. This we do through proclaiming peace and walking justly. The Restoration means, to us today, that we must go out into the world, as a prophetic people, and restore creation to the purposes of the Creator. Today, we see Zion, not as isolation from the world, but the world at its best.This is a good alternative for those who no longer identify with the truth claims and institutional church.The site was recommended because Community of Christ seems to have drawn the attention of many LDS who are looking for a new spiritual home or who believe they are being called by God to fellowship with Community of Christ.
Damien the Leper Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 I also admire their mission initiatives: Invite People to ChristChrist's call to evangelize the world Abolish Poverty, End SufferingChrist’s mission of compassion Pursue Peace on EarthChrist’s mission of justice and peace Develop Disciples to ServeEquip individuals for Christ’s mission Experience Congregations in MissionEquip congregations for Christ’s mission
Pahoran Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I'm not sure that this is appropriate for this forum. It looks like proselyting by proxy.Regards,Pahoran 2
wenglund Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 This is a good alternative for those who no longer identify with the truth claims and institutional church.The site was recommended because Community of Christ seems to have drawn the attention of many LDS who are looking for a new spiritual home or who believe they are being called by God to fellowship with Community of Christ.I would think its attractiveness to some LDS who may be looking for an alternative, would be conditioned upon the degree to which the CoC accomodates ark-steadying and the extent to which it prioritizes history over personal revelation.Thanks, -Wade Englund-
jwhitlock Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 It's a good alternative for those who feel more comfortable in a mainline protestant denomination - which is where the CoC seems to be positioning itself.
Damien the Leper Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure that this is appropriate for this forum. It looks like proselyting by proxy.Regards,PahoranDefinitely not my intent. Apologies if that is how you are taking it as such. Edited February 13, 2012 by Valentinus
Damien the Leper Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 I would think its attractiveness to some LDS who may be looking for an alternative, would be conditioned upon the degree to which the CoC accomodates ark-steadying and the extent to which it prioritizes history over personal revelation.Thanks, -Wade Englund-I understand what you are saying. However, it may be personal revelation if one is feeling called by God to such a denomination. History is very important...no matter the circumstance.
Damien the Leper Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 It's a good alternative for those who feel more comfortable in a mainline protestant denomination - which is where the CoC seems to be positioning itself.The LDS are technically Protestant under the banner of Christianity. At least, this is how it is taught in some colleges. The Christian categories still remain as Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant. There isn't another as of yet.
Nemesis Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I think this thread needs more direction to have a discussion. As it is, it seems like proselyting. I will leave the thread open for now to see where it goes.Nemesis
ebeddoulos Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 The LDS are technically Protestant under the banner of Christianity. At least, this is how it is taught in some colleges. The Christian categories still remain as Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant. There isn't another as of yet.There is in my mind! I am not even anywhere close to being technically protestant. Don't attempt to force your exclusionary definition on me. If you need a category title you can make it TBM. 1
Damien the Leper Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 I think this thread needs more direction to have a discussion. As it is, it seems like proselyting. I will leave the thread open for now to see where it goes.NemesisApostle Luffman stated on the site that he was basically attempting to keep questioning LDS persons within the Restoration movement. It is apparent that there are some deep rooted issues that LDS people have, for whatever reason, that are causing questions of faith and shifts in theological ideas and reflections. I believe he is offering an olive branch and not just looking to boost, as some may poorly deduce, Community of Christ membership.
Damien the Leper Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 There is in my mind! I am not even anywhere close to being technically protestant. Don't attempt to force your exclusionary definition on me. If you need a category title you can make it TBM.Where did I say that it was my definition? Read my post carefully. I stated what is being taught in post-secondary institutions.
jwhitlock Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 The LDS are technically Protestant under the banner of Christianity. At least, this is how it is taught in some colleges. The Christian categories still remain as Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant. There isn't another as of yet.Doesn't matter how it is taught; The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not in any way, shape, or form fit the "protestant" mold, because it's not a break-off of any existing denomination.To re-emphasize what I said, the CoC (in my opinion) is moving solidly towards mainline protestantism. I see it bearing more similarity to the Presbyterians, for instance, than to what Joseph Smith restored. The type of phrasing in your original post is something that I can find in United Methodist, Presbyterians, Lutherans, and other similar denominations.
Damien the Leper Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 Doesn't matter how it is taught; The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not in any way, shape, or form fit the "protestant" mold, because it's not a break-off of any existing denomination.To re-emphasize what I said, the CoC (in my opinion) is moving solidly towards mainline protestantism. I see it bearing more similarity to the Presbyterians, for instance, than to what Joseph Smith restored. The type of phrasing in your original post is something that I can find in United Methodist, Presbyterians, Lutherans, and other similar denominations.So you argue that JS fondness of Methodism had no influence on the theological institutions of the early church? Looking at the history, JS didn't seem to want to branch out of the banner of Protestantism. I'm not even sure if his intent was to help organize a church originally. Would you also argue that the early church was not protesting against something when considering their theological stances?
zerinus Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 http://latter-dayseekers.org/I was recently referred to this site by a Community of Christ friend of mine. I thought it provoking and well put together. The site is copyrighted to Apostle Dale Luffman. Luffman is the Apostle over the following:Ecumenical and Interfaith RelationshipsDisciple Formation Resource ConsultantTheological EducationSpecial Missionary ProjectsSingles MinistryResource: Community of Christ official siteFrom the Restoration category:This is a good alternative for those who no longer identify with the truth claims and institutional church.The site was recommended because Community of Christ seems to have drawn the attention of many LDS who are looking for a new spiritual home or who believe they are being called by God to fellowship with Community of Christ.The CoC is in serious trouble. They have been plummeting down hill for the past 30 years. They are clutching at straws. According to my limited understanding, the LDS Church has actually been trying to help them a little bit behind the scenes. They are part of LDS history, and they sit on a lot of real estate that has historical significant for the LDS Church. I don't think the Church wants it to suffer an undignified end. But I don't think there is a lot that can be done to save it from that fate. Any disaffected LDS who wants to join them I suppose they can!
Damien the Leper Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 The CoC is in serious trouble. They have been plummeting down hill for the past 30 years. They are clutching at straws. According to my limited understanding, the LDS Church has actually been trying to help them a little bit behind the scenes. They are part of LDS history, and they sit on a lot of real estate that has historical significant for the LDS Church. I don't think the Church wants it to suffer an undignified end. But I don't think there is a lot that can be done to save it from that fate. Any disaffected LDS who wants to join them I suppose they can! This is a myth. I spoke with a Mission Center President and the Mission Center Financial Officer about this. Community of Christ gets no money from the LDS church. They are not in the kind of detrimental debt that their critics might believe.
zerinus Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 This is a myth. I spoke with a Mission Center President and the Mission Center Financial Officer about this. Community of Christ gets no money from the LDS church. They are not in the kind of detrimental debt that their critics might believe.I was not referring to direct financial assistance. I had a friend who visited that area once, and told me that promotional literature that was being distributed by the CoC bore the imprint markings of the LDS Church. So if that is one example of giving them help, then maybe there were others.
Damien the Leper Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 I was not referring to direct financial assistance. I had a friend who visited that area once, and told me that promotional literature that was being distributed by the CoC bore the imprint markings of the LDS Church. So if that is one example of giving them help, then maybe there were others.Unlikely. If Community of Christ was passing out any promotional literature it would have Herald or possibly John Whitmer on it. I've been to The Temple and have not seen anything with the LDS logo, Intellectual Reserve, Deseret, etc.The LDS church doesn't help with any of the upkeep of the Kirtland Temple or the historic sites in Nauvoo that are owned by Community of Christ. As I stated before, Community of Christ receives no financial assistance from the LDS. It is member sustained through Mission Tithes and Offerings.
Pahoran Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Unlikely. If Community of Christ was passing out any promotional literature it would have Herald or possibly John Whitmer on it. I've been to The Temple and have not seen anything with the LDS logo, Intellectual Reserve, Deseret, etc.The LDS church doesn't help with any of the upkeep of the Kirtland Temple or the historic sites in Nauvoo that are owned by Community of Christ. As I stated before, Community of Christ receives no financial assistance from the LDS. It is member sustained through Mission Tithes and Offerings.Well Val, I'm increasingly inclined to believe that you know what you are talking about.Regards,Pahoran
zerinus Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Unlikely. If Community of Christ was passing out any promotional literature it would have Herald or possibly John Whitmer on it. I've been to The Temple and have not seen anything with the LDS logo, Intellectual Reserve, Deseret, etc.The LDS church doesn't help with any of the upkeep of the Kirtland Temple or the historic sites in Nauvoo that are owned by Community of Christ. As I stated before, Community of Christ receives no financial assistance from the LDS. It is member sustained through Mission Tithes and Offerings.I am only reporting what my friend says, and I trust him to be a good observer as well as telling the truth.
Damien the Leper Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Well Val, I'm increasingly inclined to believe that you know what you are talking about.Regards,PahoranUh oh...are you being sarcastic and antagonizing me, again? Edited February 14, 2012 by Valentinus
Sleeper Cell Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 The LDS are technically Protestant under the banner of Christianity. At least, this is how it is taught in some colleges. The Christian categories still remain as Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant. There isn't another as of yet.The LDS are technically not even Christian, let alone protestant. At least that is how it is taught in some colleges. I even wouldn’t be surprised if there were some colleges that teach that the LDS are Christian and technically not protestant.Are you aware of any protestant church that classifies the LDS as protestant? If the LDS don’t classify themselves as protestant and the protestants don’t classify the LDS as protestant, I am puzzled why you would do so. Perhaps if you stated the definition of “protestant” that you are using, or at least listed a few of the colleges that teach that the LDS are protestant, I could understand you better.
Pahoran Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Uh oh...are you being sarcastic and antagonizing me, again?Not at all. I'm simply saying that I'm growing to suspect that you speak from a position of personal knowledge when you tell us what the CofC does.In other words, that you might see your CofC "friend" in the mirror each morning.Regards,Pahoran
jwhitlock Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) So you argue that JS fondness of Methodism had no influence on the theological institutions of the early church? Looking at the history, JS didn't seem to want to branch out of the banner of Protestantism. I'm not even sure if his intent was to help organize a church originally. Would you also argue that the early church was not protesting against something when considering their theological stances?While you can argue about the influences of Joseph's intentions, you still have to look at the actual organization, its actual origination, and the stance it takes. We never have professed to be any kind of a break off; we always emphasize that we are a prophetic restoration of that which was lost. Joseph's observations about existing churches merely served as a catalyst to lead him to the grove; what happened after that was not a protest against something, but a divine restoration of that which was lost. Edited February 14, 2012 by jwhitlock 2
Damien the Leper Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 The LDS are technically not even Christian, let alone protestant. At least that is how it is taught in some colleges. I even wouldn’t be surprised if there were some colleges that teach that the LDS are Christian and technically not protestant.Are you aware of any protestant church that classifies the LDS as protestant? If the LDS don’t classify themselves as protestant and the protestants don’t classify the LDS as protestant, I am puzzled why you would do so. Perhaps if you stated the definition of “protestant” that you are using, or at least listed a few of the colleges that teach that the LDS are protestant, I could understand you better.Religion in America--Mesa Community College Mesa, AZAmerican Religious Experience--Northern Arizona University Flagstaff, AZI believe Boston College either did or has moved on from considering the LDS to be protestant.Also, I understand why most don't consider LDS to be Protestant. I say that LDS is not Evangelical/Conservative/Acts 29 Protestant.Does this clear up a little?
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