Bulls-Eye For The Book Of Mormon: In Relation To Authorship.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

In one of the greatest sermons concerning the Atonement, I have ever read (Jacob begins in chapter 6, but the part of the sermon concerning the Atonement that is so brilliant is contained in 2 Nephi 9 & 10

One of his comments uses the phrase “angels to a devil,”. Then 27 chapters later he uses the same phrase, only changing the word “a” to “the”. To my knowledge this phrase appears no where else in the Book of Mormon and is only spoken by the same man. Joseph if he wrote the Book of Mormon would have been clever indeed to keep these Prophets straight and their patterns of speech and writing. One thing I have also noted in my reading also is that every time Gov’t fails or falls within the Book of Mormon people revert (or the authors revert) to identifying the people by tribes…each times and this is a number of times the tribes are list in the same order.

Below in 2 Nephi 9:9 is the first time…

2 Nephi 9:9

9 And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness.

Here is the second by the same individual…not to be repeated anywhere.

Jacob 3:11

11 O my brethren, hearken unto my words; arouse the faculties of your souls; shake yourselves that ye may awake from the slumber of death; and loose yourselves from the pains of hell that ye may not become angels to the devil, to be cast into that lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death.

Am I missing something?

I would love for some former pundits to help me with this…to insure I have this correct.

[Nevo]

To my knowledge this phrase appears no where else in the Book of Mormon and is only spoken by the same man. Joseph if he wrote the Book of Mormon would have been clever indeed to keep these Prophets straight and their patterns of speech and writing.

That's a good find. I hadn't noticed it. Jacob does seem to have a distinctive style and I think you're right that Joseph would have had to be very clever to keep track of all of the subtle differences between Nephi and Jacob, or between Moroni and Mormon. (Also impressive is when a later Book of Mormon prophet quotes an earlier Book of Mormon prophet word-for-word, even though these sections were dictated weeks or months apart, without no apparent re-reading of the manuscript in between—compare, for example, Alma 36:22 and 1 Nephi 1:8, and Helaman 14:12 and Mosiah 3:8 ).

Regarding Jacob's distinctive style, here are some insightful observations from a trained literary critic (he also notes the "angels of a/the devil" repetition):

Even without consulting a concordance, one senses that Jacob's style sets him apart from Nephi. Jacob simply sounds different: he employs a more intimate lexicon and assumes a more diffident posture toward his audience. Nephi "delights," even "glories" in plainness (2 Nephi 31:3; 33:6); he frankly rebukes and frankly forgives his brothers (see 1 Nephi 7:21). Jacob, by contrast, is pained to use "much boldness of speech" in addressing his brethren, especially in the presence of women and children "whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God" (Jacob 2:7). (His solicitude for the women reminds us that, as a boy aboard ship, he had been grieved by the afflictions of his mother [1 Nephi 18:19].) He prefaces his temple discourse by admitting that he feels "weighed down with much ... anxiety for the welfare of your souls": "Yea, it grieveth my soul and causeth me to shrink with shame before the presence of my Maker.... Wherefore, it burdeneth my soul that I should be constrained ... to admonish you according to your crimes, to enlarge the wounds of those who are already wounded ... and those who have not been wounded, instead of feasting upon the pleasing word of God have daggers placed to pierce their souls and wound their delicate minds." (Jacob 2:3,6,9)

This is vintage Jacob: intimate, vivid, vulnerable. A concordance verifies that words about feelings, like "anxiety," "grieve," "tender," occur with disproportionate frequency in his writings (Conkling 3-4). For example, half the book's citations of "anxiety" occur in the book of Jacob, and over two-thirds of the references to "grieve," "tender," and "shame" (or their derivatives) appear in Jacob's writings. He is the only person to use "delicate," "contempt," and "lonesome." Likewise, only Jacob uses "wound" to refer to emotional, not physical, injuries, as in the rest of the Book of Mormon. Similarly, he uses "pierce" or its variants frequently (four of the ten instances) and exclusively in a spiritual sense. Such lexical evidence suggests an author who lives close to his emotions.

Like many sensitive people, Jacob does not preach harsh messages easily. Many times he openly shares his anxiety with his audience, as in his preface to the temple discourse above.... This structure suggests a delaying strategy reminiscent of the reluctant prophet motif illustrated by Enoch, Moses, and Jonah. When Jacob does speak, however, he does so vividly. Notice the concrete diction in the phrase: "instead of feasting upon the pleasing word of God [they] have daggers placed to pierce their souls and wound their delicate minds"; or in his statement: "the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God.... Many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds" (2:9,35; emphasis added). Strong words for strong feelings: this is the hallmark of Jacob's style, something he may have learned from the "tender" words of his "trembling" father (see 1 Nephi 8:37; 2 Nephi 1:14) and subsequently passed on to his son Enos.

Enos' account of his "wrestle" and "hunger" which led to his guilt being "swept" away, shows that his father's words had "sunk deep" into the son's style as well as soul (Enos 1:2-4, 6). Like his father, Enos finds concrete, economical language for abstract spiritual experience. Jacob's emotive language cannot be attributed merely to the sensitive subject matter of the temple discourse, for Jacob rings off silver phrases in all his writing, including his speech in 2 Nephi, separated from the book of Jacob by many chapters and many years. Nevertheless, in both sermons, Jacob consistently speaks of ridding his garments of the people's blood and of the Lord's "all-searching eye" (2 Nephi 9:44; Jacob 1:19; 2:2, 10). Both sermons call upon the people to "awake" lest they become "angels of the devil" (2 Nephi 9:9,47; Jacob 3:11). In the same verse, Jacob uses the term "reality," closely related to a phrase in Jacob 4, "things as they really are" (Jacob 4:13)—the only such uses of either term in the entire Book of Mormon. These verbal parallels suggest a common author of uncommon sensitivity.

Structurally, Jacob's first sermon also resembles his later writings. It begins, as does his temple speech, with Jacob's hallmark—an initial expression of anxiety: "mine anxiety is great for you" (2 Nephi 6:3). Then it moves into scriptural quotations, followed by explication and exhortation. This organization compares closely to Jacob's olive-tree discourse, which begins with his prefatory expression of anxiety—"Behold, my beloved brethren, I will unfold this mystery unto you; if I do not, by any means, get shaken from my firmness in the Spirit, and stumble because of my over anxiety for you" (4:18)—followed by scriptural quotation, explication, and exhortation.

— John S. Tanner, "Literary Reflections on Jacob and His Descendants," in The Book of Mormon: Jacob through Words of Mormon, To Learn with Joy, ed. Monte S. Nyman and Charles D. Tate, Jr. (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center / Brigham Young University, 1990), 259–261.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Nevo

[Grundelwalken]

I have always enjoyed things like this. I realize that they are not "proof" that Joseph translated and didn't write the book but they are surely interesting to consider. Card had a paper he did that examined several things like this as reasons why Joseph couldn't have written the book on his own. Lots of cool stuff and fodder for discussion. Not where my testimony comes from (that happened as I read and prayed) but still fun. MW

[J Green]

I've also noticed that there are often phrases, ideas, or curious choices of words that are only used by two or three people in the BoM who happen to be related. Maybe Nephi and Jacob, or Alma and Alma the Younger. Or similar phrases used only by Mormon and Moroni as editors. It's intriguing.

Edited January 13, 2012 by J Green

[Cobalt-70]

In one of the greatest sermons concerning the Atonement, I have ever read (Jacob begins in chapter 6, but the part of the sermon concerning the Atonement that is so brilliant is contained in 2 Nephi 9 & 10

One of his comments uses the phrase “angels to a devil,”. Then 27 chapters later he uses the same phrase, only changing the word “a” to “the”. To my knowledge this phrase appears no where else in the Book of Mormon and is only spoken by the same man. Joseph if he wrote the Book of Mormon would have been clever indeed to keep these Prophets straight and their patterns of speech and writing. One thing I have also noted in my reading also is that every time Gov’t fails or falls within the Book of Mormon people revert (or the authors revert) to identifying the people by tribes…each times and this is a number of times the tribes are list in the same order.

These are not the only instances in which Smith dictated language referring to the "devil's angels." Such language also appears in Hel. 13:37 and D&C 29:36-37.

[altersteve]

These are not the only instances in which Smith dictated language referring to the "devil's angels." Such language also appears in Hel. 13:37 and D&C 29:36-37.

Helman 13:37: "Behold, we are surrounded by demons, yea, we are encircled about by the angels of him who hath sought to destroy our souls. Behold, our iniquities are great. O Lord, canst thou not turn away thine anger from us? And this shall be your language in those days."

D&C 29:36-37: "And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency; and they were thrust down, and thus came the devil and his angels."

The idea of the devil having angels is present in these verses, but the phrase that is being spoken of ("angels of the devil") does not appear. Jacob is only one who uses this phrase.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

These are not the only instances in which Smith dictated language referring to the "devil's angels." Such language also appears in Hel. 13:37 and D&C 29:36-37.

Maybe he quoted the wrong scriptures (Cobalt-70) or he misread the thread; I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[orion88]

This may be of interest to some on the forum. A colored photographic facsimile reprint

of the original first edition: http://www.inephi.com/

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

This may be of interest to some on the forum. A colored photographic facsimile reprint

of the original first edition: http://www.inephi.com/

"facsimile reprint" Could you expand on this, since I do not know what you are talking about.

[orion88]

"facsimile reprint" Could you expand on this, since I do not know what you are talking about.

It soulds like a scanned version of the original. Not sure if that's the intended mean by

the owner of the website - he uses that terminology in the title properties of the html code.

[LDSToronto]

In one of the greatest sermons concerning the Atonement, I have ever read (Jacob begins in chapter 6, but the part of the sermon concerning the Atonement that is so brilliant is contained in 2 Nephi 9 & 10

One of his comments uses the phrase “angels to a devil,”. Then 27 chapters later he uses the same phrase, only changing the word “a” to “the”. To my knowledge this phrase appears no where else in the Book of Mormon and is only spoken by the same man. Joseph if he wrote the Book of Mormon would have been clever indeed to keep these Prophets straight and their patterns of speech and writing. One thing I have also noted in my reading also is that every time Gov’t fails or falls within the Book of Mormon people revert (or the authors revert) to identifying the people by tribes…each times and this is a number of times the tribes are list in the same order.

I am currently reading the 5th book of George R. R. Martin's, A Song of Ice and Fire. Between the 5 books, there are approximately 5,000 pages of text, well over 100 characters, new lands, a political system with many political players and divisions. A fascinating read.

I would suggest that if George R. R. Martin could keep track of around 100 characters and their various language patterns and the complexities of a realistic new world across 5,000 pages of text, then it is not entirely outside the realm of possibility for Joseph to have done the same thing across 500 pages of text.

H.

Edited January 15, 2012 by LDSToronto

[altersteve]

I am currently reading the 5th book of George R. R. Martin's, A Song of Ice and Fire. Between the 5 books, there are approximately 5,000 pages of text, well over 100 characters, new lands, a political system with many political players and divisions. A fascinating read.

I would suggest that if George R. R. Martin could keep track of around 100 characters and their various language patterns and the complexities of a realistic new world across 5,000 pages of text, then it is not entirely outside the realm of possibility for Joseph to have done the same thing across 500 pages of text.

H.

George R. R. Martin is a professional author who has a bachelor's degree in journalism, and who has been writing for over 40 years now. He undoubtedly takes his time on his A Song of Ice and Fire series (which, as you said, has a grand total of over 5,000 pages). Each book requires writing a draft, character outlines, and then several revisions, and it probably takes much longer than just a few months (in fact, it probably takes several years) for anyone to write such a book. (I'm a writer, so I know exactly how this works.) Joseph Smith, by contrast, was not a professional author (he was hardly a professional anything), had only a few weeks of formal education (which today would amount to much less than it did back then), and the Book of Mormon was produced in a matter of months, and there is no evidence of Joseph Smith writing drafts or outlines, using other sources, or developing the story of the Book of Mormon at all beforehand.

Not exactly fair to compare the two.

Edited January 15, 2012 by altersteve

[LDSToronto]

George R. R. Martin is a professional author who has a bachelor's degree in journalism, and who has been writing for over 40 years now. He undoubtedly takes his time on his A Song of Ice and Fire series (which, as you said, has a grand total of over 5,000 pages). Each book requires writing a draft, character outlines, and then several revisions, and it probably takes much longer than just a few months (in fact, it probably takes several years) for anyone to write such a book. (I'm a writer, so I know exactly how this works.) Joseph Smith, by contrast, was not a professional author (he was hardly a professional anything), had only a few weeks of formal education (which today would amount to much less than it did back then), and the Book of Mormon was produced in a matter of months, and there is no evidence of Joseph Smith writing drafts or outlines, using other sources, or developing the story of the Book of Mormon at all beforehand.

Not exactly fair to compare the two.

Please see B.H. Roberts Studies of The Book of Mormon to get fuller perspective on Joseph's capabilities - vivid and creative imagination, not exactly illiterate, well-versed in the Bible, etc.

Not exactly the uneducated farm boy you believe he was...

H.

[altersteve]

Please see B.H. Roberts Studies of The Book of Mormon to get fuller perspective on Joseph's capabilities - vivid and creative imagination, not exactly illiterate, well-versed in the Bible, etc.

Not exactly the uneducated farm boy you believe he was...

H.

I am confident that I understand quite well what Joseph Smith was capable of. I am not denying that he was incredibly intelligent -- only a highly intelligent person could have done the remarkable things he accomplished in his short life -- and I am unable think of too many people who knew as much about the Bible as he did later in his life. I am consistently amazed with the ideas he shared with others and the way he shared them. Nevertheless, the fact remains that Joseph was never as literate or educated as someone like George R. R. Martin, who, again, is an award-winning professional author with an education in the field of writing, who was known to have a deep love for reading. And even educated, award-winning, professional authors have to take their time, write detailed notes and outlines, and revise, revise, revise when writing a novel or any other piece of literature. I see no evidence that Joseph Smith had the ability to write something like the Book of Mormon at any time in his life, or that he ever made any effort to write drafts, outlines, or revisions to the Book of Mormon (and changes to fix spelling, grammar, and printing errors, and to provide clarity, are not what I mean when I say "revisions"), or that during his childhood he had any real interest in reading (though he seemed to have a deep interest in literature later in his life). Clearly, whoever wrote the Book of Mormon, it wasn't Joseph.

If you want to fairly compare Joseph Smith to someone, you might want to go with someone who lived closer to his time and lived in similar conditions. Comparing him to someone like George R. R. Martin, J. R. R. Tolkien, or anybody else like that is absolutely absurd.

Edited January 15, 2012 by altersteve

[LDSToronto]

I am confident that I understand quite well what Joseph Smith was capable of. I am not denying that he was incredibly intelligent -- only a highly intelligent person could have done the remarkable things he accomplished in his short life -- and I am unable think of too many people who knew as much about the Bible as he did later in his life.

You can't claim his high intelligence and then throw Joseph under the bus with respect to the Book of Mormon. Is it possible that Joseph was highly gifted and able enough to write what he wrote?

Hey, have you ever heard of Wilson Rawls?

H.

[altersteve]

You can't claim his high intelligence and then throw Joseph under the bus with respect to the Book of Mormon. Is it possible that Joseph was highly gifted and able enough to write what he wrote?

Hey, have you ever heard of Wilson Rawls?

H.

I'm not throwing Joseph under the bus at all. I don't think I have to answer your first question, because doing so would simply require me to repeat myself, again, and I don't feel like doing that. Read my post again as a whole instead of just replying to part of it. And yes, I've heard of Wilson Rawls. I remember reading Where the Red Fern Grows in middle school.

Anyway, my point stands. Comparing Joseph Smith to George R. R. Martin is ridiculous. There is no fair comparison there whatsoever.

Edited January 16, 2012 by altersteve

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I am currently reading the 5th book of George R. R. Martin's, A Song of Ice and Fire. Between the 5 books, there are approximately 5,000 pages of text, well over 100 characters, new lands, a political system with many political players and divisions. A fascinating read.

I would suggest that if George R. R. Martin could keep track of around 100 characters and their various language patterns and the complexities of a realistic new world across 5,000 pages of text, then it is not entirely outside the realm of possibility for Joseph to have done the same thing across 500 pages of text.

H.

To quote Emma Smith…

“Joseph could not write a well worded coherent sentence”

He was forever asking her assistance or others when not translating scripture or receiving revelation. Nice attempt to demean him though….or to make it sound easy

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Not exactly the uneducated farm boy you believe he was...

H.

He was at the time he wrote it. Or when he translated it.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[LDSToronto]

I'm not throwing Joseph under the bus at all. I don't think I have to answer your first question, because doing so would simply require me to repeat myself, again, and I don't feel like doing that. Read my post again as a whole instead of just replying to part of it. And yes, I've heard of Wilson Rawls. I remember reading Where the Red Fern Grows in middle school.

Anyway, my point stands. Comparing Joseph Smith to George R. R. Martin is ridiculous. There is no fair comparison there whatsoever.

Oh, so you have heard of Wilson Rawls. Does it make sense to compare him to Joseph Smith?

H.

[Glenn101]

Please see B.H. Roberts Studies of The Book of Mormon to get fuller perspective on Joseph's capabilities - vivid and creative imagination, not exactly illiterate, well-versed in the Bible, etc.

Not exactly the uneducated farm boy you believe he was...

H.

I have read (long ago) the pertinent areas of which you speak. It would have been helpful if you had cited the portions that you are refferring to ratherthan have someone go and try to find them in the book. It is hard to reply to such a generalization.

However, Roberts was employing (purposely) tactics that less than stellar critics have employed for years by making assertions and quoting statements out of context and not including statements that made the context, such as the one about Joseph's supposed great imagination where he was telling stories about the former inhabitants and actually describing their appearance and manner of dress. The critical quote from Lucy Mack Smith that was omitted was that Joseph did this as he received further instructions from the angel.

Roberts also ignored evidence that did not agree with his assessment, such as the statement by Emma that Joseph could not write a cohernet sentence, or the one by his mother that Joseph was less inclined to read the Bible than his other siblings. Nor the time during the translation that he asked if Jerusalem had walls.

This is not to downplay Joseph's intelligence nor his education, only to put it into perspective. He obviously was a man of intelligence, but raw at the time he undertook the translation of the Book of Mormon. He worked hard to improve his education, but again, at the time he undertook the translation of the Book of Mormon, his education was in its very infancy.

Glenn

[Cobalt-70]

Helman 13:37: "Behold, we are surrounded by demons, yea, we are encircled about by the angels of him who hath sought to destroy our souls. Behold, our iniquities are great. O Lord, canst thou not turn away thine anger from us? And this shall be your language in those days."

D&C 29:36-37: "And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency; and they were thrust down, and thus came the devil and his angels."

The idea of the devil having angels is present in these verses, but the phrase that is being spoken of ("angels of the devil") does not appear. Jacob is only one who uses this phrase.

Even in the case of the Jacob quotes, it is not exactly the same phrase. "Angels to the devil" means something a bit different from "angels to a devil." Given the other instances of Smith revelations referring to angels of devils, I don't see this as a bullseye. All you have, basically, is a very simple coincidence of words that happens to be uniquely in two parts attributed to Jacob. For this to be a bullseye, you would have to show that, statistically, the same type of unique coincidence of words is very unlikely to be found twice in any similarly-sized section of the Book of Momon. Given that there are so many examples of unusual terminology used in many places in the Book of Mormon ("dwindled in unbelief," "traditions of their fathers," "prosper in the land," etc.) it would not be surprising that the same phrasing gets used twice for a single author, but once for none of the others.

[ebeddoulos]

Oh, so you have heard of Wilson Rawls. Does it make sense to compare him to Joseph Smith?

H.

The extent of Woodrow Wilson Rawls public schooling was just Junior High but he was mostly home educated by his mother. However, Rawls was a hard worker, traveled extensively and in 1958 he managed to marry well. His wife, Sophie Ann Styczinski, was a budget analyst for the Atomic Energy Commission. Prior to the wedding, Rawls burned five unpublished manuscripts. One of the manuscripts was his first draft of "Where the Red Fern Grows", the most famous of his novels. Sophie insisted that he reprise it. She served as his initial editor for this complete re-write which is basically a biographical account of his youth. In 1961, it was re-edited by the Saturday Evening Post, when it was published as a three-part serial called "The Hounds of Youth". Also in 1961, additional editing was done by Doubleday when they published it in book form bearing its current title. He wrote a second book, "Summer of the Monkees", which was published in 1976. His third book, "Hunters of Cherokee County", was published in 1978. Rawls died in 1984 at age 71.

Frankly, I fail to see much to compare.

Edited January 17, 2012 by ebeddoulos

[ERayR]

You can't claim his high intelligence and then throw Joseph under the bus with respect to the Book of Mormon. Is it possible that Joseph was highly gifted and able enough to write what he wrote?

Hey, have you ever heard of Wilson Rawls?

H.

It is all so confusing. Joseph Smith is portrayed as everywhere from a genius to a moron by those trying to discredit the Book of Mormon. Come on now which is it?

Edited January 17, 2012 by ERayR

[altersteve]

The extent of Woodrow Wilson Rawls public schooling was just Junior High but he was mostly home educated by his mother. However, Rawls was a hard worker, traveled extensively and in 1958 he managed to marry well. His wife, Sophie Ann Styczinski, was a budget analyst for the Atomic Energy Commission. Prior to the wedding, Rawls burned five unpublished manuscripts. One of the manuscripts was his first draft of "Where the Red Fern Grows", the most famous of his novels. Sophie insisted that he reprise it. She served as his initial editor for this complete re-write which is basically a biographical account of his youth. In 1961, it was re-edited by the Saturday Evening Post, when it was published as a three-part serial called "The Hounds of Youth". Also in 1961, additional editing was done by Doubleday when they published it in book form bearing its current title. He wrote a second book, "Summer of the Monkees", which was published in 1976. His third book, "Hunters of Cherokee County", was published in 1978. Rawls died in 1984 at age 71.

Frankly, I fail to see much to compare.

This.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Even in the case of the Jacob quotes, it is not exactly the same phrase. "Angels to the devil" means something a bit different from "angels to a devil."

I pointed this out in the OP...but could you expand on your interpretation?