inquiringmind Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) I just got back from sacrament meeting, and I got the three-in -one (BOM, D&C, and POGP) from the Church Library today.Right now I'm reading the book of Moses, and trying to figure out who the pre-flood people of "Canaan" were?They can't be the same people Isreal disposessed (the children of Noah's grandson Ham), and if they were so bad, why would Ham name his son after them (after they were wipped out by the flood)?Maybe there's something I'm missing here, but it's really giving me a headach.Can anyone help? Edited September 4, 2011 by inquiringmind
inquiringmind Posted September 4, 2011 Author Posted September 4, 2011 Could someone help me out here?What is the etymology of the word Cannan?Does it come from the personal name of Noah's grandson, and if so, how could there be "Cannanites" before the flood?Why are "people of Canaan" mentioned in the 7th ch. of the Book of Moses (before the flood)?
altersteve Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 I'd actually like to learn more about this too. I never really noticed that before...
inquiringmind Posted September 4, 2011 Author Posted September 4, 2011 I'd actually like to learn more about this too. I never really noticed that before...Can anyone help us here?
zerinus Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 I just got back from sacrament meeting, and I got the three-in -one (BOM, D&C, and POGP) from the Church Library today.Right now I'm reading the book of Moses, and trying to figure out who the pre-flood people of "Canaan" were?They can't be the same people Isreal disposessed (the children of Noah's grandson Ham), and if they were so bad, why would Ham name his son after them (after they were wipped out by the flood)?Maybe there's something I'm missing here, but it's really giving me a headach.Can anyone help?You are confusing Cainan with Canaan. They are two different people whose names are spelled differently.
altersteve Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 I did a little reading and this seems to be a prophecy of the future people of Canaan, but I'll read more into it.
BCSpace Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 Unfortunately, the first occurance of Canaan in Moses 7 is connected by footnote to Abraham 1:21, which is post Flood. No further explaination in the manuals that I can see. Combining with Abraham 1:22 and seeing that the footnote goes back to Moses 7, the implication could indeed be that the blood of the preFlood Canaanites was preserved through Ham because he had descendants.
inquiringmind Posted September 4, 2011 Author Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) I did a little reading and this seems to be a prophecy of the future people of Canaan, but I'll read more into it.Yes..Moses 7 does seem to be a prophetic view of the future.The answer seems so simple now that I don't know how I could have missed it.Thank you. Edited September 4, 2011 by inquiringmind
Robert F. Smith Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 You are confusing Cainan with Canaan. They are two different people whose names are spelled differently.Yes. They are spelled differently, but are pronounced the same way in English (homonyms). Any scribe writing the name down would probably choose the English spelling most familiar to him, Canaan. So the question obtains, what was Joseph's intention here as he spoke to his scribe? There is no similarity at all in biblical Hebrew, Cainan being Qeynan (the KJV also spells it Kenan in some places), while Canaan is Hebrew Kena'an. The two could never be confused by a speaker of Hebrew.Another matter to be considered is whether the Great Flood was local/regional or worldwide. It does make a difference: Was the Flood over all the "land" or over all the "earth"? Both words are the same in Hebrew ('aretz), so that one's translation makes all the difference. The KJV chooses "earth," as though it were a planetary Flood, even engulfing the Himalyas. However, a terrific torrential rain and local/regional flood could have seemed to be worldwide to those experiencing it -- and they might well have crossed an entire ocean as a result before coming to rest on Mt Ararat, which does not need to be a tremendously high mountain (and certainly not the traditional Mt Ararat in eastern Turkey). In such a case, Canaan could be in the traditional location in the Fertile Crescent and not be affected by name-confusion. 1
Rob Osborn Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 There were both pre-flood Canaanites and post flood Canaanites Related to each other through the bloodline of Ham.
zerinus Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 Yes. They are spelled differently, but are pronounced the same way in English (homonyms). Any scribe writing the name down would probably choose the English spelling most familiar to him, Canaan. So the question obtains, what was Joseph's intention here as he spoke to his scribe? There is no similarity at all in biblical Hebrew, Cainan being Qeynan (the KJV also spells it Kenan in some places), while Canaan is Hebrew Kena'an. The two could never be confused by a speaker of Hebrew.Another matter to be considered is whether the Great Flood was local/regional or worldwide. It does make a difference: Was the Flood over all the "land" or over all the "earth"? Both words are the same in Hebrew ('aretz), so that one's translation makes all the difference. The KJV chooses "earth," as though it were a planetary Flood, even engulfing the Himalyas. However, a terrific torrential rain and local/regional flood could have seemed to be worldwide to those experiencing it -- and they might well have crossed an entire ocean as a result before coming to rest on Mt Ararat, which does not need to be a tremendously high mountain (and certainly not the traditional Mt Ararat in eastern Turkey). In such a case, Canaan could be in the traditional location in the Fertile Crescent and not be affected by name-confusion.I believe that the biblical story relates to a global or worldwide flood.
blackstrap Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 I believe that the biblical story relates to a global or worldwide flood.AND..... we're off....
Robert F. Smith Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 There were both pre-flood Canaanites and post flood Canaanites Related to each other through the bloodline of Ham.Another reasonable possibility.
BCSpace Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Another matter to be considered is whether the Great Flood was local/regional or worldwide. It does make a difference: Was the Flood over all the "land" or over all the "earth"? Both words are the same in Hebrew ('aretz), so that one's translation makes all the difference. The KJV chooses "earth," as though it were a planetary Flood, even engulfing the Himalyas.Yes. I'm of the local opinion and I've also notice the Hebrew could be translated as local or global.However, a terrific torrential rain and local/regional flood could have seemed to be worldwide to those experiencing it -- and they might well have crossed an entire ocean as a result before coming to rest on Mt Ararat, which does not need to be a tremendously high mountain (and certainly not the traditional Mt Ararat in eastern Turkey). In such a case, Canaan could be in the traditional location in the Fertile Crescent and not be affected by name-confusion.I kinda like the flooding of the Black Sea as the source of the Flood story. Some creation myths involve a Flood and that could speak to more of a world-wide event as that would indeed involve a recreation of sorts for everything.
Rob Osborn Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Yes. I'm of the local opinion and I've also notice the Hebrew could be translated as local or global.I kinda like the flooding of the Black Sea as the source of the Flood story. Some creation myths involve a Flood and that could speak to more of a world-wide event as that would indeed involve a recreation of sorts for everything.I am not sure what this has to do with the topic? Should we start another global flood post?(the last one went like 29 pages).
Ron Beron Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 I kinda like the flooding of the Black Sea as the source of the Flood story. Some creation myths involve a Flood and that could speak to more of a world-wide event as that would indeed involve a recreation of sorts for everything.There is another alternative with some evidence that region was hit by a large meteorite or asteroid. I'll post when I find it.
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