Ares Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 So, have you given up the "believing Mormon" facade?Please refrain from personal remarks.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 The facts are that there had been a rumour that Alvin's body had been tampered with and Alvin's father had to exhume the body in order to investigate and scotch the rumour. The fiction is that it had anything to do with Moroni's visit or any "treasure guardian." That fiction was invented by Mark W. Hofmann in the forged "Salamander Letter." If you are aware of any antecedents for that fiction, I'd be delighted to see them; but you should know that the nasty local rumour, and Joseph Senior's actions to deal with it, do not support the fiction.Regards,PahoranCobalt just got pooned. Probably doesn't even know it yet.
altersteve Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 To get back to the topic at hand, a historical drama film that focuses primarily on Joseph as a political and military leader, as well as a religious leader, and the events culminating in his assassination, would be awesome. Of course, one would have to touch (at least briefly) on his family and childhood and events such as the First Vision, the translation and publication of the Book of Mormon, the establishment of the Church, etc., but I think the best "movie material" (at least the material that would appeal to a general audience) would be found in last 5 to 10 years of Joseph's life.I'm strongly considering a career in filmmaking, so I just might make this happen. Coming soon at a theater near you.
Cobalt-70 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Leonard Arrington, the alleged father of the "New Mormon History," thought it was Joseph's reputation arising from his visions that led Stowell to look for him....I didn't say it was. The claim that Moroni told Joseph to bring a bit of Alvin's body to the hill is a Hofmann forgery. He took the fact (Joseph Senior exhumed Alvin's body because of rumours that it had been tampered with) and used it as the basis for a fiction (Joseph Junior was supposed to dig up Alvin's body and steal his finger.)...The facts are that there had been a rumour that Alvin's body had been tampered with and Alvin's father had to exhume the body in order to investigate and scotch the rumour. The fiction is that it had anything to do with Moroni's visit or any "treasure guardian." That fiction was invented by Mark W. Hofmann in the forged "Salamander Letter." If you are aware of any antecedents for that fiction, I'd be delighted to see them; but you should know that the nasty local rumour, and Joseph Senior's actions to deal with it, do not support the fiction.Hoffman was such a great forger, in part, because his forgeries merely "filled in the gaps" of what was already known. The idea that the rumors, and the exhumation of Alvin, had nothing to do with Joseph Smith's visit to Cumorah just four days earlier is pretty preposterous. The connection between Alvin and the 1824 visit to Cumorah is already corroborated by other sources. Mormons should be happy to have this hard evidence that Smith actually went to Cumorah in 1823 and 24.As to Arrington, I don't know what reference you are referring to, but in a sense, it was Smith's reputation for visions that drew Stowell to him. Visions, that is, that he saw in the reflections of his seer stone. When Stowell visited the Smith house, Joseph apparently demonstrated his ability by looking at his stone and describing Stowell's property in incredible detail. Joseph's greatest claim was, after all, to be a seer, which the Book of Mormon says is greater than a prophet.
Pahoran Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Hoffman was such a great forger, in part, because his forgeries merely "filled in the gaps" of what was already known. The idea that the rumors, and the exhumation of Alvin, had nothing to do with Joseph Smith's visit to Cumorah just four days earlier is pretty preposterous.Why?The connection between Alvin and the 1824 visit to Cumorah is already corroborated by other sources.Such as? This is a call for references (CFR) please.Mormons should be happy to have this hard evidence that Smith actually went to Cumorah in 1823 and 24.Why? Is that even controversial anywhere?As to Arrington, I don't know what reference you are referring to, but in a sense, it was Smith's reputation for visions that drew Stowell to him. Visions, that is, that he saw in the reflections of his seer stone. When Stowell visited the Smith house, Joseph apparently demonstrated his ability by looking at his stone and describing Stowell's property in incredible detail. Joseph's greatest claim was, after all, to be a seer, which the Book of Mormon says is greater than a prophet.You know Cobalt, for someone who posts anonymously, you have an annoying habit of expecting us to accept your unqualified assertions merely on your say-so. Arrington and Bitton, in The Mormon Experience, argued that Joseph's reputation got abroad because of his religious visions, not his vastly (and subsequently) exaggerated connection with the money-digging industry.Stowell, after all, is unlikely to have read Dan Vogel's rather sad article on which you seem to place such faith.Regards,Pahoran 3
Rivers Posted September 7, 2011 Author Posted September 7, 2011 To get back to the topic at hand, a historical drama film that focuses primarily on Joseph as a political and military leader, as well as a religious leader, and the events culminating in his assassination, would be awesome. Of course, one would have to touch (at least briefly) on his family and childhood and events such as the First Vision, the translation and publication of the Book of Mormon, the establishment of the Church, etc., but I think the best "movie material" (at least the material that would appeal to a general audience) would be found in last 5 to 10 years of Joseph's life.I'm strongly considering a career in filmmaking, so I just might make this happen. Coming soon at a theater near you.I would love to see such a movie, I've actually imagined the same sort of thing in my mind.
Questing Beast Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 I predict it will be better than The Book of Mormon, Volume 1. Phaedrus
HiJolly Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 Enjoyed the movie. Too bad all the known facts can't be stuffed into the movie. HiJolly
altersteve Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 My manager at work told me that the actor who played Joseph was not a good fit. He said he didn't have a sense of humor in the film, and that he was too small.
volgadon Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 My manager at work told me that the actor who played Joseph was not a good fit. He said he didn't have a sense of humor in the film, and that he was too small.The best actor to play Joseph IMHO was Vincent Price.
Questing Beast Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 Judging by that preview, the word "dirt" is a foreign concept in the 19th century. And everybody wears fresh new clothing off the rack....
HiJolly Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 The best actor to play Joseph IMHO was Vincent Price.Love that movie! HiJolly
cinepro Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 If I were making a Joseph Smith movie, I wouldn't show any of the visions or other "unknowns". The audience would be put in the same place as those around Joseph, where we hear his accounts but have to make up our own minds whether or not he is relating authentic experiences. For example, the audience wouldn't see the gold plates at all, and even after the experiences with the witnesses, we would only have their testimonies. The movie would focus on the tension of who decides to believe him, and who doesn't, and what it does to families and the community as people deal with what he is claiming.It's been a while since I saw the first Work and the Glory movie, but I think they were closer to this approach.
Olavarria Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 For example, how do you think the average Mormon would react if the movie showed Smith directing treasure diggers where to dig by looking at the stone in his hat, and then 10 minutes later portraying Smith using the exact same method to translate the Book of Mormon? I think most Mormons would assume that was anti-Mormon propaganda, and would boycott. How would they react to a depiction of Smith's 1826 trial for glass looking? What if they showed early Mormons speaking in tongues they way Pentecostals do today? What if they portrayed Joseph Smith peddling alcoholic beer, and his father getting routinely drunk at the tavern?That would be awesome.
Zakuska Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Some one linked earlier a paper by Dan Vogel that documented all the supossed treasure diggings of Joseph Smith and after reading it the only thing that came to my mind was...I do have to abmit that Dan did a very good with his footnotes. And keeping it all documented. However, Much of the "Testimony" he documents comes 50 years after the fact and is a bunch of he said she said, rumor and Neighborhood Gossip. And many of the digging expeditions from their description of the excavations made it seem more like some one out in the middle of a property digging house foundations or out-house holes back by the barn at least 3 of the excavations were specifically designated as "Wells". So Joseph Smith was a ditch digger and he used divining rods to find the buried power lines before digging. So what?! Digging isn't a crime and is an honest living. If some old superstitious fool wants to pay you for looking for silver and you need some extra cash. Im sure there isn't a man alive that wouldn't help him dig it. Edited September 12, 2011 by Zakuska
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