Article On Reincarnation And Mormonism

[volgadon]

Coolrok, reincarnation is believed by more than just Hindus. It might be most famous as part of Hinduism, but it is hardly "Hindu."

[mfbukowski]

The whole idea of reincarnation is not to keep reliving the same mistakes, once you recognize them as mistakes, but to "progress" to the next level and learn new things...perhaps, things you were not ready for, in this lifetime, because you were busy learning something at a lower level that would help you understand the next step in your progression.

Makes perfect sense, to me. We may even be learning in groups (kind of like in elementary school, where whole classes graduate to the next grade, each year).

I know that's the theory

I am not going to argue the point, but if I can't remember that I had past live(s) how am I supposed to remember where I goofed up?

[Nathair/|\]

Coolrok, reincarnation is believed by more than just Hindus. It might be most famous as part of Hinduism, but it is hardly "Hindu."

Pythagoras and the ancient Druids both taught it. (Some say Pythagoras got his lore from the Druids. )

[blarsen]

Just looking at the first chapter, I would have to posit that there really is no evidence whatsoever from LDS scripture or doctrine for reincarnation. I found the Hebrews "better resurrection" argument to be especially egregious. However, I don't disccount the possibiliy of reincarnation as it could be a satisfactory explaination for the existence of all types of spirits, some of which are no longer extant on this world, and the fact that they are organized intelligence.

I've always wondered exactly what the phrase: "to go no more out' means in the several passages of the Book of Mormon where it is found. It is used in the context of sitting down with God for eternity "to go no more out".

Here they are:

Alma 34:36 - . . . . yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the lamb.

Helaman 3:30 - And land their souls, yea, their immortal souls, at the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven, to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and with Jacob, and with all our holy fathers, to go no more out.

Alma 7:25 - And may the Lord bless you, and keep your garments spotless, that ye may at last be brought to sit down with aAbraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the holy prophets who have been ever since the world began, having your garments bspotless even as their garments are spotless, in the kingdom of heaven to go no more out.

3 Nephi 28:40 - And in this state they were to remain until the judgment day of Christ; and at that day they were to receive a greater change, and to be received into the kingdom of the Father to go no more out, but to dwell with God eternally in the heavens.

Alma 29:17 - And now may God grant unto these, my brethren, that they may sit down in the kingdom of God; yea, and also all those who are the fruit of their labors that they may go no more out, but that they may praise him forever.

Edited July 7, 2011 by blarsen

[ebeddoulos]

Reincarnation is pure, unadulterated hogwash.

The LDS position on reincarnation is based on the teachings of death and the resurrection as found in both ancient and modern scripture. The apostle Paul said that we die only one time.

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27)

This was also taught to those in the lands of the Book of Mormon by Alma the Younger’s missionary companion, Amulek.

“Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.” (Alma 11:45)

It has been reiterated in modern revelation by Joseph Smith.

“Yea, and blessed are the dead that die in the Lord, from henceforth, when the Lord shall come, and old things shall pass away, and all things become new, they shall rise from the dead and shall not die after, and shall receive an inheritance before the Lord, in the holy city.” (Doctrine and Covenants 63:49)

Joseph Smith taught that the reincarnation “doctrine was of the devil.” Joseph sent one man, who had professed the doctrine, away from his home, stating: “I, for once, cast out the devil in bodily shape, and I believe a murderer.”

“I resumed conversation with Matthias, and desired him to enlighten my mind more on his views respecting the resurrection. He said that he possessed the spirit of his fathers, that he was a literal descendant of Matthias, the Apostle, who was chosen in the place of Judas that fell; that his spirit was resurrected in him; and that this was the way or scheme of eternal life--this transmigration of soul or spirit from father to son. I told him that his doctrine was of the devil, that he was in reality in possession of a wicked and depraved spirit, although he professed to be the Spirit of truth itself; and he said also that he possessed the soul of Christ. He tarried until Wednesday, 11th, when, after breakfast, I told him, that my God told me, that his god was the devil, and I could not keep him any longer, and he must depart. And so I, for once, cast out the devil in bodily shape, and I believe a murderer.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith”, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., [1970], pg. 105)

Latter-day Saints definitely do not believe in reincarnation.

[Libs]

I know that's the theory

I am not going to argue the point, but if I can't remember that I had past live(s) how am I supposed to remember where I goofed up?

Not really arguing "for" reincarnation, either. I, honestly, don't know. It does answer some of the more difficult questions, though (IMHO).

As for remembering, it could be intuitive. We don't all make the same mistakes. Seems that we all have a slightly different path, with different challenges, for whatever reason.

[shalamabobbi]

I see some issues with reconciling reincarnation with LDS theology.

How could this possibly square with the sealing keys of Elijah?

Not only do I have to be reincarnated with my spouse but our children, our parents on both sides, their parents before them, etc.

Heck if I am reincarnated within my family line I could become my own progenitor..

But I'm all for allowing it for mosquitoes.. and cats, not much of a cat fan..

[mfbukowski]

Heck if I am reincarnated within my family line I could become my own progenitor..

Good point- I wonder how the advocates see that?

[stYro]

Reincarnation is pure, unadulterated hogwash. [mocking poster image noted but not quoted]

I'm sure you're not the only person here who feels that way.

The LDS position on reincarnation is based on the teachings of death and the resurrection as found in both ancient and modern scripture. The apostle Paul said that we die only one time:

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27)

That scripture sure sounds like an unbeatable trump card, but there's a translation issue that shifts its meaning. From the article I linked to:

The “once to die” sounds like an absolute statement not open to debate until we realize that it is boldly contradicted by the scriptures themselves: “Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to THE DEATHS…” D&C 132:25

We have also talked about a “second death,” so obviously in the big picture the “once to die” statement is not literal.

After we are told that man only dies once the scripture says “BUT after this the judgement.” The word “but” comes from the Greek ALLA which literally means “contrariwise.” In other words, it indicates that the information that is forthcoming may contradict that which has just been said.

That would mean that “after this the judgement” may have an opposite meaning to “it is appointed unto men once to die”. It would indicate an exception as in the sentence: “I rise every morning at 8:00 A.M., except when the alarm does not go off.”

We shall see that when we examine the Greek word for “judgement” that the second half of the sentence does indeed contradict the first.

The word “judgement” here comes from the Greek word KRISIS. This is one of the most misunderstood words in the entire Bible. Translators don’t quite seem to know how to handle it and have rendered it according to their bias rather than the actual meaning. In the King James version it is translated as: accusation, condemnation, damnation, and judgement, but none of these portrays the word accurately.

The modern English word “crisis” (which is derived from the Greek word KRISIS) is a more accurate rendering than the Bible translations. The actual Greek word implies a decision that brings correction. It is hard to give the meaning of this word with one English word, but the word “correction” would probably be the closest.

The best scripture to help us understand the KRISIS is from John 5:28-29: “The hour is coming in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation (KRISIS).”

Here Jesus divides all resurrections into two categories. The first he calls the “resurrection of life” and the second “the resurrection of damnation”. “Damnation” is a mistranslation. The Greek KRISIS is more correctly rendered “correction” or “judgement that forces correction” and generally refers to a lesser resurrection.

Taking this into consideration let us retranslate Hebrews 9:27: “And as it is appointed unto mankind once to be dying, but on the other hand, after this comes (the resurrection of) correction.”

So to recap, there are two types of resurrections, the resurrection of life and the resurrection of Krisis (correction), and once Hebrews 9:27 is translated correctly, it does not contradict the idea that the lesser resurrection (presumably into one of the lower Kingdoms) is what we call reincarnation... more on that in a minute.

This was also taught to those in the lands of the Book of Mormon by Alma the Younger’s missionary companion, Amulek.

Remember that there are two types of resurrections. Obviously in the passage quoted Amulek is referring to the "resurrection of life", not the "resurrection of Krisis" - which would be a resurrection to one of the lower two kingdoms (Telestial or Terrestrial). Those lower kingdoms are not kingdoms of immortality! The D&C teaches that "spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy," Is there a "fulness of joy" in those lower two kingdoms? Of course not. Therefore, a resurrection into either of those two kingdoms is not the resurrection of life, wherein spirit and element are "inseparably connected." So, a resurrection into one of the lower Kingdoms must be the other kind, wherein spirit and element are not "inseparably connected"; i.e., a "resurrection" into a mortal life. One word for that kind of resurrection is "reincarnation".

It has been reiterated in modern revelation by Joseph Smith.

Again, the passage quoted obviously referrs to the resurrection of life, not the resurrection of Krisis.

Joseph Smith taught that the reincarnation “doctrine was of the devil.” Joseph sent one man, who had professed the doctrine, away from his home, stating: “I, for once, cast out the devil in bodily shape, and I believe a murderer.”

Actually, it was the doctrine of transmigration of souls from father to son that Joseph declared to be a "doctrine of the devil". For further information on the "doctrine of the devil" issue, take a look at this page from the article:

http://www.freeread.com/archives/2303

Latter-day Saints definitely do not believe in reincarnation.

For the most part, you're right. I know some that do, but they keep quiet about it.

* * * *

In connection with the higher resurrection, Joseph Smith had this to say:

"You have to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one: from grace to grace; FROM EXALTATION TO EXALTATION until you ATTAIN THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.” History of the Church; Vol. 6 Pg. 306

Notice the sequence of events: We must go from Exaltation to Exaltation (we have to get an "A+" in more than one life), after which we attain the higher resurrection, which Jesus called the Resurrection of Life. The attainment of Exaltations (plural) precedes the higher resurrection, rather than the other way around as is commonly taught.

Edited July 7, 2011 by stYro

[HeatherAnn]

Because of some things I have recently come accross I am considering that memories are stored in our DNA and past lives memories may only be some past ancestors stored memories.

Yeah, I believe it. I've read that the "book of life" is our bodies (physical & spiritual).

Although the present needs to be lived, maybe the present is influenced by the past, including strengths & needed healing.

I'm not sure about reincarnation, & I don't think it matters too much if we believe in it or not. But it does make sense... if we are to progress eternally. Some may hesitate to consider it, believing that it gives people an excuse to just enjoy life without worry of consequence... as if we'll get another, so it doesn't really matter. Yet, our goal is to have joy... & however long it takes, we do come to realize that "wickedness never was happiness." Some also may resist the idea because of caste systems of prejudice in some cultures who embrace reincarnation without compassion. A belief in reincarnation & karma, may inspire more compassion - if we realize how we treat others may come back to us, & we may be the one being treated that same way. Also, if God is omnipotent & we can become like God - the only way would be to get to know all - through experience.

It's mind-boggling, though. This life is a conglomerate interweaving, as it is. Considering complexities of more lives is more confusing.

Yet, just because we don't understand something, doesn't make it true or untrue.

Interesting scriptures:

"Women received their dead raised to life again... that they might obtain a better resurrection" - Hebrews 11:35"

"And he received not the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fullness.” D&C 93:12-13.

“That you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time (after many lifetimes) receive of his fullness.” D&C 93:19.

John 9:1: "Who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?"

Mark 8:27-28: "Who do people say I am?" "Some say you are John the Baptist. Others say that you are Elijah, while others say that you are one of the prophets."

Matt 11:14: "If you will receive it, this is Elijah, who is to come."

Revelation 3:12 "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it."

Edited July 7, 2011 by HeatherAnn

[mfbukowski]

But anyway- as I have said- I am not convinced that such a belief is harmful, I just can't see it making sense for me. I don't see what it would add to my experience of the gospel, other than a whole new set of layers of problems explaining it all.

The more I think about it, the more I disagree with myself!

I cannot conceive how this idea of reincarnation is at all compatible with the idea of a fall and vicarious sacrifice of Jesus the Christ- in other words, the atonement.

So the savior died for all our sins through all our lives? And why is there a judgement for sin if we just work that all out through multiple lives in which we repent of our sins and get closer to perfection?

In other words, the whole idea of the atonement is that we put our sins on Christ- not that we can repent for them through successive lives, getting closer to perfection each time.

1 Peter 3

18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

There is no reason for the fall, no reason for the atonement, no reason for Christ preaching to the spirits in prison, no reason for the doctrine of the redemption of the dead, no reason to go to the temple to do vicarious work for the dead- in short no reason to be LDS at all-

Just a good reason to be Buddhist or Hindu.

Almost had me there bro- but no thanks!

Edited July 8, 2011 by mfbukowski

[thesometimesaint]

Even if I did learn from my mistakes. Once around in this sad world is about all I can take.

[ebeddoulos]

You and your source have a few problems with your exegesis. It is true that there is a Greek word αλλα which can be translated as “contrarywise”. The problem is that the “but” in Hebrews 9:27 is translated from the Greek “δε” and not “αλλα”. Below, I reproduce the Greek text from the Textus Receptus, Westcott-Hort, Nestle-Aland, UBC’s Greek Text and SBL’s recent edition. I have taken the liberty of highlighting the relevant word.

“και καθ οσον αποκειται τοις ανθρωποις απαξ αποθανειν μετα δε τουτο κρισις” (Heb 9:27 - GNT-TR)

“και καθ οσον αποκειται τοις ανθρωποις απαξ αποθανειν μετα δε τουτο κρισις” (Heb 9:27 - GNT-WH)

“καὶ καθ' ὅσον ἀπόκειται τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἅπαξ ἀποθανεῖν, μετὰ δὲ τοῦτο κρίσις” (Heb 9:27 - GNT-NA26)

“καὶ καθ' ὅσον ἀπόκειται τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἅπαξ ἀποθανεῖν, μετὰ δὲ τοῦτο κρίσις” (Heb 9:27 - GNT-UBC4)

καὶ καθ’ ὅσον ἀπόκειται τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἅπαξ ἀποθανεῖν, μετὰ δὲ τοῦτο κρίσις” (Heb 9:27 - GNT-SBL)

As you can see, except for the occasional diacritical mark, they are pretty uniform and none of them contain “αλλα”. The conjunction δὲ generally carries the meaning of but, and, or, moreover. It was not mistranslated in Hebrews 9:27.

Your argument is fallacious.

The Greek word κρίσις (krísis) is not “one of the most misunderstood words in the entire Bible.” The only ones who have misunderstood, is you and your source. The root word from which κρίσις is derived is κρίνω (krínō). According to Spiros Zodhiates, in his book “The Complete Word Study Dictionary” κρίνω means:

“To separate, distinguish, discriminate between good and evil, select, choose out the good. In the NT, it means to judge, to form or give an opinion after separating and considering the particulars of a case.”

Spiros Zodhiates then defines κρίσις as:

The act of judging in reference to the final judgment, the day of judgment (Mat 10:15; Mat 11:22, Mat 11:24; Mat 12:36; Mar 6:11; 2Pe 2:9; 2Pe 3:7; 1Jn 4:17); the hour of judgment (Rev 14:7); the judgment of the great day (Jud 1:6). Simply krísis standing for the judgment of the great day (Mat 12:41-42; Luk 10:14; Luk 11:31-32; Heb 9:27). For the present judgment, the pronouncement of the punishment that was necessary and which Christ took on Himself on the cross (Joh 12:31, "now is the world judged" [a.t.]. See Joh 16:8, Joh 16:11). In Joh 5:27; Jud 1:15, "to execute judgment" simply means to judge and enforce that judgment (cf. Joh 5:30). Used metonymically for the power of judgment (Joh 5:22; Sept.: Lev 19:15; Deu 1:17; Isa 28:6).

This is confirmed by Vines Complete Expository Dictionary

krisis (G2920) primarily denotes "a separating," then, "a decision, judgment," most frequently in a forensic sense, and especially of divine "judgment."

The New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible substantiates this as well:

Κρίσις krisis; from G2919; a decision, judgment: - court (2), judgment (38), judgments (2), justice (4), sentence (1).

Your argument has collapsed.

Hebrews 9:27 is an unbeatable trump card. The deaths in D&C 132:25 refer to the physical and the spiritual. The physical death being the separation of the body and spirit and the spiritual being the separation of man from God.

The King James records 48 occurrences where κρίσις (krisis) is used. They are found at:

judgment, 39

Mat 5:21-22 (2), Mat 10:15, Mat 11:22, Mat 11:24, Mat 12:18, Mat 12:20, Mat 12:36, Mat 12:41-42 (2), Mat 23:23, Mar 6:11, Luk 10:14, Luk 11:31-32 (2), Luk 11:42, Joh 5:22, Joh 5:27, Joh 5:30, Joh 7:24, Joh 8:16, Joh 12:31, Joh 16:8, Joh 16:11, Act 8:33, 2Th 1:5, 1Ti 5:24, Heb 10:27 (2), Jam 2:13 (2), 2Pe 2:4, 2Pe 2:9, 2Pe 3:7, 1Jo 4:17, Jud 1:6, Jud 1:15, Rev 14:7, Rev 18:10

damnation, 3

Mat 23:33, Joh 5:29 (2)

accusation, 2

2Pe 2:11, Jud 1:9

condemnation, 2

Joh 3:19, Joh 5:24

judgments, 2

Rev 16:7, Rev 19:2

There is not a single occurrence in the King James where κρίσις is translated as correction.

But I was not satisfied with that. I should have been as it would have saved me a few hours of fruitless research. I next checked John 5:29 in every English Bible (over a hundred) I have in my collection. In not a single one, is “The Greek KRISIS ... more correctly rendered “correction” or “judgement that forces correction …”” Imagine that… not a single one!

Again, the passage quoted obviously referrs to the resurrection of life, not the resurrection of Krisis.

Quite obviously, based on your abysmally poor exegesis, you are wrong.

Your argument is dismissed.

One final comment as an FYI: Transmigration of souls and reincarnation are synonyms. Reincarnation did not enter the English language until the 1855-1860 timeframe. This is well after Joseph Smith had departed mortality. Prior to that time and definitely during Josephs Smith's lifetime, the belief was called "transmigration of souls".

Your argument is totally without merit.

For the most part, you're right. I know some that do, but they keep quiet about it.

Most people with heretical beliefs are quiet about them. It keeps the titters, giggles, guffaws and pointing fingers down to a minimum.

[Fly Fisherman]

Well, it seems Brigham Young might have believed something similar in his Adam-God doctrine, where according to the doctrine, Adam was once a mortal man on another planet who became resurrected and exalted. Then Adam brought Eve, one of his wives, with him to the earth. Or something like that.

I don't know if this would technically be "reincarnation" or not. And, of course, this is not accepted as doctrine (Adam-God) by the Church.

[ebeddoulos]

It appears as though Fly is being sly and trying to derail this topic.

[Deborah]

Reincarnation is an abhorrent doctrine and an abomination of the true principles of pre-mortality and eternal progression. I am surprised any LDS would hold any affinity for it.

[Flyonthewall]

There are similarities...enough to recognize some truth...and understand that it has veered off course.

1) Our actions in this life determine our standing in the next life

2) We progress eternally towards perfection.

[Libs]

Heck if I am reincarnated within my family line I could become my own progenitor..

Good point- I wonder how the advocates see that?

It doesn't really fit in with Mormon Doctrine, but it does fit in very well with Eastern religions, wherein most believe that our souls do not have a "gender"...that we have all reincarnated, many times, as both male and female (to gain the full experience) before going back to God.

[Libs]

Well it seems similar to the idea that we all had different levels of merit in the pre-mortal life, so we all come here with different talents proclivities etc- which is of course an idea I would not debate.

And then we have the "Saturday's Warrior" concept that we made covenants with others in the pre-earth life to find each other here etc. I see that as entirely possible within LDS doctrine, though I am not sure if it is really "doctrine" or not even on the level of being published in Ensign- clearly it is not in the standard works.

But having had the experience personally, of meeting my wife, and both of us instantly seeing the other as "familiar" in some way, with an instant connection as if we were supposed to be together, I know both how certain and yet vague such experiences can be.

I would hate to see myself stuck on a "wheel" of returning for another life because I missed such an impression. Of course that in itself could be the test, but frankly just from seeing what we call "the plan of salvation" as a structured theory, all I see is that reincarnation for LDS people doesn't explain much we can't already explain within the theory we have.

Yes, those scriptural interpretations are very interesting I must admit, but within our present doctrine we can account for making mistakes here and rectifying them in the afterlife- the entire doctrine of the redemption of the dead leaves open the possibility that we can change and repent and progress before the resurrection and yet after death anyway.

I am not sure what we gain on a theoretical perspective on postulating all these other mechanisms of how and why we return and how or why we re-find all the right people we were meant to be with repeatedly- I am just not seeing what the theory gives us that we don't already have a functional explanation for.

I suppose if one had a firm impression that he lived in some other century, or found himself speaking another language under hypnosis- not like the Evangelical "tongues" stuff- but a real, understandable language (but then the hypnotist would be the only would who could verify that it was "ancient Bactrian" say- and he of course would have a vested interest- and how many hypnotists speak ancient Bactrian?)

But anyway- as I have said- I am not convinced that such a belief is harmful, I just can't see it making sense for me. I don't see what it would add to my experience of the gospel, other than a whole new set of layers of problems explaining it all.

Supposedly, people have been hypotized and remembered past lives, including the language they spoke in that lifetime. People who, otherwise, did not have a knowledge of the language they were speaking. There has been some pretty interesting evidence.

As for recognizing people (like you and your wife), I have had that experience many times, with various people. That's interesting, as well. How long was the pre-existence supposed to have lasted? Has anyone ever mentioned that (one of the prophets, maybe?) I know it's ongoing, but how long does an individual have to stay there?

Edited July 8, 2011 by Libs

[stYro]

You and your source have a few problems with your exegesis. It is true that there is a Greek word αλλα which can be translated as “contrarywise”. The problem is that the “but” in Hebrews 9:27 is translated from the Greek “δε” and not “αλλα”. Below, I reproduce the Greek text from the Textus Receptus, Westcott-Hort, Nestle-Aland, UBC’s Greek Text and SBL’s recent edition. I have taken the liberty of highlighting the relevant word....

As you can see, except for the occasional diacritical mark, they are pretty uniform and none of them contain “αλλα”. The conjunction δὲ generally carries the meaning of but, and, or, moreover. It was not mistranslated in Hebrews 9:27.

Your argument is fallacious.

At this point It looks like there is a mistake on my side. If I find otherwise I will post, but for now I'll concede that one to you.

The Greek word κρίσις (krísis) is not “one of the most misunderstood words in the entire Bible.” The only ones who have misunderstood, is you and your source. The root word from which κρίσις is derived is κρίνω (krínō). According to Spiros Zodhiates, in his book “The Complete Word Study Dictionary” κρίνω means:

Spiros Zodhiates then defines κρίσις as:

This is confirmed by Vines Complete Expository Dictionary

The New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible substantiates this as well:

Your argument has collapsed.

Not really; based on the definition in your post, "correction" is probably a better translation of the word than "damnation" or "condemnation", even if it wasn't used by bible translators. The main point is, it's the same word used by Jesus to describe the lesser resurrection. So Paul may have been saying that after we die, then comes the resurrection of krisis - which is not the same thing as the resurrection of life.

It is also possible that Paul wasn't teaching the highest level of truth available on the subject to that particular audience. Reincarnation is not a helpful concept for those likely to use it as an excuse for procrastination. See D&C 19:4-12 for more information on the Lord intentionally withholding a higher truth because a lesser concept is more useful given the audience at hand.

One final comment as an FYI: Transmigration of souls and reincarnation are synonyms. Reincarnation did not enter the English language until the 1855-1860 timeframe. This is well after Joseph Smith had departed mortality. Prior to that time and definitely during Josephs Smith's lifetime, the belief was called "transmigration of souls".

Joseph Smith was speaking specifically of transmigration of souls from father to son, which is not synonymous with reincarnation as we understand the term today, though maybe the distinction was less clear in Joseph's day.

Fortunately that issue can can be clarified, as we have evidence that Joseph did comment specifically on the concept of reincarnation as we understand the term today:

"8 June 1889: During our talks he [Lorenzo Snow] told me that his sister, the late Eliza R. Snow Smith was a firm believer in the principle of reincarnation and that she claimed to have received it from Joseph the Prophet, her husband. He said he [Lorenzo Snow] saw nothing ureasonable in it, and could believe it, if it came to him from the Lord or His oracle." ---Diary of Orson F. Whitney, 8 June 1889 entry, Church Archives

[stYro]

Supposedly, people have been hypotized and remembered past lives, including the language they spoke in that lifetime. People who, otherwise, did not have a knowledge of the language they were speaking. There has been some pretty interesting evidence.

As for recognizing people (like you and your wife), I have had that experience many times, with various people. That's interesting, as well. How long was the pre-existance supposed to have lasted? Has anyone ever mentioned that (one of the prophets, maybe?) I know it's ongoing, but how long does an individual have to stay there?

As a two year old, James Leininger seemed to remember a previous life as a World War 2 navy pilot shot down in the Pacific. He was able to provide some specific information that was impossible for him to have known. Either all of these people are lying, or there was something extraordinary going on. Here, take a look!:

sTYro

Edited July 8, 2011 by stYro

[Libs]

As a two year old, James Leininger seemed to remember a previous life as a World War 2 navy pilot shot down in the Pacific. He was able to provide some specific information that was impossible for him to have known. Either all of these people are lying, or there was something extraordinary going on. Here, take a look!:

sTYro

Very intriguing, StYro.

[shalamabobbi]

It doesn't really fit in with Mormon Doctrine, but it does fit in very well with Eastern religions, wherein most believe that our souls do not have a "gender"...that we have all reincarnated, many times, as both male and female (to gain the full experience) before going back to God.

Thanks Libs.

Is that your assessment as well stYro? You seem to be advancing the idea that there are no conflicts. How does the idea fit in with the sealing keys of Elijah?

[Fly Fisherman]

It appears as though Fly is being sly and trying to derail this topic.

Funny. I was thinking the same of your post.

Seriously, I was just adding a "wrinkle". Not trying to derail.

[volgadon]

As a two year old, James Leininger seemed to remember a previous life as a World War 2 navy pilot shot down in the Pacific. He was able to provide some specific information that was impossible for him to have known. Either all of these people are lying, or there was something extraordinary going on. Here, take a look!:

sTYro

Or it could be the phenomenon of ancestral memory.