Evil And Conspiring Men In The Last Days

[cinepro]

I'm looking at chronic illness as a measuring stick. Things like Diabetes, Heart Disease, Cancer, and Obesity rates over the last 50 years or so.

Now I'm really confused.

Are you saying that people didn't have diabetes, heart disease, cancer or obesity in 1950? Or 1900? Or 1880?

Is it possible that the incidence of those diseases has increased because people are living longer today, and more specifically, people with those diseases are living longer?

For example, go and read this article. It's kind of long, but it's worth it:

The Bittersweet Science

And then come back and tell me that the world is worse for diabetics in 2011, or there were fewer diabetic adults in 1900 because their food and medicine were better.

I'm not saying the American diet is great. I'm not saying we don't have problems with diabetes or heart disease (I, myself, have to watch my heart health because of genetic factors) or cancer. But I do believe that, statistically speaking, this is still the best time to be alive in the history of the planet.

I am more comfortable judging the health of a society based on its life expectancy and infant mortality. And based on both of those, I'm happy with how the USA is doing and I hope will keep getting better.

Edited June 16, 2011 by cinepro

[thesometimesaint]

Too much floride can cause health problems, just as too little floride. My dad grew up where there was just the right amount. Also genetics play a part too. When he died he had not one cavity in his teeth. My sister still has no cavities, unfortunately I took after my mom with her teeth.

[Walden]

I'm looking at chronic illness as a measuring stick. Things like Diabetes, Heart Disease, Cancer, and Obesity rates over the last 50 years or so.

Again, I would have to ask how much of the rise in rates for diabetes or heart disease, for instance, is related to changes in lifestyle over the past 50-100 years, rather than some massive conspiracy or "evil and conspiring" men running the food and drug industries.

Technology has made our lives significantly easier and less demanding, physically, over the past century. Everyone now either owns a car or has easy access to mass transit. The number of people who walk to work, the grocery store, church, etc. are much less prevelant than even 50 years ago. Heck, even the mass use of elevators and such has made taking the stairs seem like a chore. Likewise, with the prevalance of TV and video games, young kids no longer have to go outside and play (and thus exercise) to be entertained....they can do it from the comfort of their couch.

It is my position that the explosive rise in the past 50-100 years of a sedentary lifestyle is more a factor for rises in diseases such as diabetes or heart disease than anything else. Yes, poor diet does play a significant role, but again, it comes down to personal choice. There are more healthy choices made available by the food industry (organic, low-fat, low-calorie, etc.) than at any time in the history of processed food production.

It is not "evil and conspiring men" that are causing America to be unhealthy, it is the malaise and sedentary lifestyle of the American public that is leading the rise in disease.

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Again, I would have to ask how much of the rise in rates for diabetes or heart disease, for instance, is related to changes in lifestyle over the past 50-100 years, rather than some massive conspiracy or "evil and conspiring" men running the food and drug industries.

Technology has made our lives significantly easier and less demanding, physically, over the past century. Everyone now either owns a car or has easy access to mass transit. The number of people who walk to work, the grocery store, church, etc. are much less prevelant than even 50 years ago. Heck, even the mass use of elevators and such has made taking the stairs seem like a chore. Likewise, with the prevalance of TV and video games, young kids no longer have to go outside and play (and thus exercise) to be entertained....they can do it from the comfort of their couch.

It is my position that the explosive rise in the past 50-100 years of a sedentary lifestyle is more a factor for rises in diseases such as diabetes or heart disease than anything else. Yes, poor diet does play a significant role, but again, it comes down to personal choice. There are more healthy choices made available by the food industry (organic, low-fat, low-calorie, etc.) than at any time in the history of processed food production.

It is not "evil and conspiring men" that are causing America to be unhealthy, it is the malaise and sedentary lifestyle of the American public that is leading the rise in disease.

You do believe in the phenomenon of "addiction", right?

Most humans have a weakness for addictive substances whether it is alcohol, tobacco, drugs, gambling, pornography, and even laziness and couch potato syndrome, and I would go so far as to say that there are additives in our processed foods industry are addictive such as sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and other processed sweetners.

Now sure, a person can go to one extreme and argue that there is no such thing as "evil and conspiring men" who look to get rich from human weakness--and that it is 100% about human weakness. Or you can go to the other extreme and argue that there is no such thing as human weakness, and it is 100% evil and conspiring men who create these weaknesses.

I think both extremes are ridiculous. The fact is, that there IS human weakness, and there ARE evil and conspiring men in the last days who try to get rich from dependency and human weakness.

Look at the sugar cereals and junk food marketed to kids. Look at the rise in childhood obesity and childhood T2 diabetes rates. Does a sedentary lifestyle play a part? Sure it does. But so does the American diet. Americans are learning to be advertising-driven eaters. Instead of listening to our own body, we are listening to advertisers who tempt us with what we should be craving.

And only recently did it become legal to advertise prescription drugs direct to the consumer. (The doctors get the advertising too of course). And the doctors who write the most prescriptions, often are well rewarded by the drug company.

My definition of "evil and conspiring men" is when two or more people or organizations collude to get gain (money) by doing what is not in the known best interest of the person they claim to want to help.

[Walden]

You do believe in the phenomenon of "addiction", right?

Most humans have a weakness for addictive substances whether it is alcohol, tobacco, drugs, gambling, pornography, and even laziness and couch potato syndrome, and I would go so far as to say that there are additives in our processed foods industry are addictive such as sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and other processed sweetners.

Now sure, a person can go to one extreme and argue that there is no such thing as "evil and conspiring men" who look to get rich from human weakness--and that it is 100% about human weakness. Or you can go to the other extreme and argue that there is no such thing as human weakness, and it is 100% evil and conspiring men who create these weaknesses.

I think both extremes are ridiculous. The fact is, that there IS human weakness, and there ARE evil and conspiring men in the last days who try to get rich from dependency and human weakness.

Look at the sugar cereals and junk food marketed to kids. Look at the rise in childhood obesity and childhood T2 diabetes rates. Does a sedentary lifestyle play a part? Sure it does. But so does the American diet. Americans are learning to be advertising-driven eaters. Instead of listening to our own body, we are listening to advertisers who tempt us with what we should be craving.

And only recently did it become legal to advertise prescription drugs direct to the consumer. (The doctors get the advertising too of course). And the doctors who write the most prescriptions, often are well rewarded by the drug company.

My definition of "evil and conspiring men" is when two or more people or organizations collude to get gain (money) by doing what is not in the known best interest of the person they claim to want to help.

There have been evil and conspiring men who have attempted to profit off human weakness since the beginning of time....this is nothing new, and certainly not a sign of the last days. If that were the case, the last days have been occurring for centuries, almost as long as recorded history.

And yes, of course I believe in addiction. And yes, there are addictive substances such as sugar, salt, etc. that are placed in our processed food supply to keep the masses coming back.

But I also happen to believe in addiction recovery. Just as an alcoholic must swear off alcohol and re-learn how to cope with life without alcohol, food-additive addicts must swear off processed foods. Don't want to get fat and unhealthy and be stricken by diabetes or heart disease, then give up processed foods. You state that "Americans are learning to be advertising-driven eaters. Instead of listening to our own body, we are listening to advertisers who tempt us with what we should be craving." So you posit that it is the fault of the food and drug companies that we are listening to them instead of our own bodies? There is an amazing amount of information out there regarding nutrition content....heck, even most of the fast-food companies (the biggest scofflaw in this whole diabetes, heart disease debate) now post nutritional information in their stores. It's not exactly like they are performing a bait and switch.

And yes, while I do believe that the drug companies are pushing the limits of sensibility, it was only a century ago that there were any number of crack-pot, non-medical potions, syrups and salves with dubious ingredients (including cocaine, opium, etc.) being hawked by carnival barker-like salesmen to cure anything from anxiety to cancer. At least today in the marketing of drugs, the known side effects have to be published or made-known alonside the marketing (ever hear the laundry list of warnings in the drug commercials {do not take xxxxx if you suffer from xxxxxx, or you are currently taking a MAOI inhibitor, etc., etc., etc}.......and read any print adverstisement for any drug and it is generally followed by two to three pages of guidelines and warnings for taking that drug).

Again, I think that it comes down to personal freedom and responsibility. Nobody forces you to eat unhealthful, processed foods. I gave that stuff up months ago, and besides losing 40lbs, I have never felt better. I decided to control what was going into my body, instead of letting the processed food industry decide what I was going to put into my body.

If you don't want people profiting off of your weaknesses while they simultaneously send you to an early grave, then conquer that weakness.

Again, people profiting on other's weaknesses is nothing new, and surely it is not a convention of the "last days".....it is as old as the world's oldest profession

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

Again, people profiting on other's weaknesses is nothing new, and surely it is not a convention of the "last days".....it is as old as the world's oldest profession

Technology, industry, government-assisted profit making has made it more of a problem today than it was only 50 years ago.

I guess you to take a very narrow view of D&C 89:4.

"Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—"

While I take a broader view.

So do you think the underlined phrase has any connection specific to "the last days?" Explain.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Fig-bearing Thistle

[Walden]

Technology, industry, government-assisted profit making has made it more of a problem today than it was only 50 years ago.

I guess you to take a very narrow view of D&C 89:4.

"Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—"

While I take a broader view.

So do you think the underlined phrase has any connection specific to "the last days?" Explain.

Yes, I do take a narrow view of D&C 89:4. I am not a believer so I do not believe in the "last days" prophecies as taught by mormons, evangelicals, etc.

I am of the opinion that one can find clues to associate with these prophecies if they look hard enough with a narrow enough focus. It's kind of like those stories one hears of people who see images of christ's face in a piece of toast, or the image of the virgin mary on the side of their home and thus believe that they are somehow blessed. Me, I just see a burnt piece of toast or a shadow on a wall. But these people want to see something divine, want to believe in some greater force, and search accordingly and thus find it where it doesn't even exist.

People see what they want to see (and I include myself, a nonbeliever, in this category.....I am not looking for christ anymore, so I don't expect to find him), even if it does not exist.

[bookofmormontruth]

In regards to "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days", It is summed up by the World Health Report in 2000. (not Forbes magazine ).

Despite the objections from the shills, the United States is ranked 37th (next to Costa Rica and Slovenia) in the world in terms of the quality of its health care system, yet we spend more than any other country. My link

We are ranked last overall compared to six other industrialized countries on measures of health system performance, yet we spend more than any other country. My link

Chronic diseases accounted for 88% of all deaths in 2002. My link

After heart disease and cancer the 3rd leading cause of death? The U.S. healthcare system. Kills at least 225,000 a year. My link (<--JAMA - cannot argue with this source even though it was 11 years ago).

• 12,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery
• 7,000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals
• 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals
• 80,000 deaths/year from nosocomial infections in hospitals
• 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, adverse effects of medications
• 225,000 total deaths/year

It doesn't take much common sense to realize that this is a clear reflection that our current medical paradigm has failed. Our brilliance in emergency medicine won't even be able to redeem it. And yet our government is trying to force us to partake of the 3rd leading cause of death? No thanks.

[bookofmormontruth]

Too much floride can cause health problems, just as too little floride. My dad grew up where there was just the right amount. Also genetics play a part too. When he died he had not one cavity in his teeth. My sister still has no cavities, unfortunately I took after my mom with her teeth.

There is no such thing as a "fluoride deficiency".

[Fig-bearing Thistle]

In regards to "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days", It is summed up by the World Health Report in 2000. (not Forbes magazine ).

Despite the objections from the shills, the United States is ranked 37th (next to Costa Rica and Slovenia) in the world in terms of the quality of its health care system, yet we spend more than any other country. My link

We are ranked last overall compared to six other industrialized countries on measures of health system performance, yet we spend more than any other country. My link

Chronic diseases accounted for 88% of all deaths in 2002. My link

After heart disease and cancer the 3rd leading cause of death? The U.S. healthcare system. Kills at least 225,000 a year. My link (<--JAMA - cannot argue with this source even though it was 11 years ago).

• 12,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery
• 7,000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals
• 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals
• 80,000 deaths/year from nosocomial infections in hospitals
• 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, adverse effects of medications
• 225,000 total deaths/year

It doesn't take much common sense to realize that this is a clear reflection that our current medical paradigm has failed. Our brilliance in emergency medicine won't even be able to redeem it. And yet our government is trying to force us to partake of the 3rd leading cause of death? No thanks.

Thanks, BOMTruth. Those are some good links.

[Walden]

In regards to "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days", It is summed up by the World Health Report in 2000. (not Forbes magazine ).

Despite the objections from the shills, the United States is ranked 37th (next to Costa Rica and Slovenia) in the world in terms of the quality of its health care system, yet we spend more than any other country. My link

We are ranked last overall compared to six other industrialized countries on measures of health system performance, yet we spend more than any other country. My link

Chronic diseases accounted for 88% of all deaths in 2002. My link

After heart disease and cancer the 3rd leading cause of death? The U.S. healthcare system. Kills at least 225,000 a year. My link (<--JAMA - cannot argue with this source even though it was 11 years ago).

• 12,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery
• 7,000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals
• 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals
• 80,000 deaths/year from nosocomial infections in hospitals
• 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, adverse effects of medications
• 225,000 total deaths/year

It doesn't take much common sense to realize that this is a clear reflection that our current medical paradigm has failed. Our brilliance in emergency medicine won't even be able to redeem it. And yet our government is trying to force us to partake of the 3rd leading cause of death? No thanks.

Despite your wise-crack (and rolling eyes icon) about the Forbes study on health that I linked, that study included "the latest available health and environmental statistics for every nation, from sources such as the World Health Organization, the World Bank and the UN." So yes, your WHO study was included, but the focus wasn't quite as narrow.

Again, you guys can continue to go on and blame the food industries, drug industries, the hospital industries, etc. for our poor state of health in this country, and then twist that through the kaleidoscope of "end-times" prophecies in order to validate a belief system.

Me, I will take responsibility for my own health and continue to eat healthy (and shun the processed-food industry), exercise regularly, work on getting enough sleep and decreasing stress, and take my chances with the "evil" medical-industrial complex when the time comes.

[bookofmormontruth]

Despite your wise-crack (and rolling eyes icon) about the Forbes study on health that I linked, that study included "the latest available health and environmental statistics for every nation, from sources such as the World Health Organization, the World Bank and the UN." So yes, your WHO study was included, but the focus wasn't quite as narrow.

Again, you guys can continue to go on and blame the food industries, drug industries, the hospital industries, etc. for our poor state of health in this country, and then twist that through the kaleidoscope of "end-times" prophecies in order to validate a belief system.

Me, I will take responsibility for my own health and continue to eat healthy (and shun the processed-food industry), exercise regularly, work on getting enough sleep and decreasing stress, and take my chances with the "evil" medical-industrial complex when the time comes.

Not everyone has the gift of discernment, sorry. And not everyone believes in the Book of Mormon and the references it makes to the secret combinations of our day which are inspired by evil men which includes a great deal of industries, companies, organizations, systems, philosophies and governments.

I am glad you are taking care of yourself because then you won't have to "take your chances" on the 3rd leading cause of death, but I am not sure why you would "shun" an industry, yet have a problem with us who call evil for what it is? I also believe we probably agree more on this than you would like to admit, minus putting your trust in the arm of flesh. You are just accustomed to having your automatic reflex to kick in to disagree with anything related to the Lord's Church (prophecies, good vs evil etc.).

[cinepro]

Despite the objections from the shills, the United States is ranked 37th (next to Costa Rica and Slovenia) in the world in terms of the quality of its health care system, yet we spend more than any other country. My link

Just wanted to point out that study you are referring to is ranking efficiency, not quality. Efficiency is very important, but it is very different than quality.

But your other points are good. We do have serious problems with our health care system. But I don't believe it is a "conspiracy". It is just good old fashioned incompetence, ignorance and self-interest preventing change.

Not to get political, but in order to improve our system, big changes would have to be made that would seriously affect both Democrat and Republican interests, and as we saw in the 2009 mess on the issue, neither side is willing to do what is needed.

But again, it's not a conspiracy. It's just people looking out for themselves.

[bookofmormontruth]

Just wanted to point out that study you are referring to is ranking efficiency, not quality. Efficiency is very important, but it is very different than quality.

But your other points are good. We do have serious problems with our health care system. But I don't believe it is a "conspiracy". It is just good old fashioned incompetence, ignorance and self-interest preventing change.

Not to get political, but in order to improve our system, big changes would have to be made that would seriously affect both Democrat and Republican interests, and as we saw in the 2009 mess on the issue, neither side is willing to do what is needed.

But again, it's not a conspiracy. It's just people looking out for themselves.

Efficiency begets quality. How is the 3rd leading cause of death "quality"?

I agree with you politically, but we obviously have a different definition of conspiracy.

Conspiracy: "an agreement between persons to deceive, mislead, or defraud others of their legal rights, or to gain an unfair advantage". Again, you can find these conspiracies in every types of industries, companies, organizations, systems, philosophies and governments. As President Benson would say, "it is not a conspiracy theory, but a conspiracy fact".

[Franktalk]

This is an interesting subject and one that goes all over the place in products and food production. But let me comments on a couple of areas.

Our ability to farm and produce more with the same land comes from fertilizers and selected seeds. Most of the fertilizers come from the petroleum industry and the seeds come from very large corporations. Fertilizers are easy to make if you have the raw parts. I don't see an organized plan to mess with people in this industry but I will tell you that our dependence on petroleum is more widespread than most know. If we were to run out of chemical fertilizers we would quickly have widespread famine. Crop yields would plummet and the soil would not produce. But seeds are a different matter. Many of the high yield seeds do not produce plants that produce seeds that work. This is by design. Each year the farmer must obtain his high yield seeds from the seed guys. What is way worse is the seeds are patentable. And each year some of the designer DNA shows up in farms that use their own seeds. Soon most grown food will belong to a company as intellectual property. The same thing is happening with livestock. Genetic selection or engineering can be patented. So all livestock will one day be intellectual property as well. This is a money driven system and the needs of mankind do not enter into the equations, just profit and loss. Myself I have purchased seeds for many foods. You can still buy seeds that will produce plants that will generate viable seeds. One day that may not be true. What this sets up is a perfect storm.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0115-04.htm

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/patent-for-a-pig/

http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com/genetically-modified-plants.html

The ends times are coming and we have many things which can cause the Biblical scale famines that are on the way. I sure don't know which process or substance will trigger the event but we have many to choose from now.

How much of this is evil and set up by greed is not known but the tools are in place for the killing off of entire countries just by controlling food production from afar. So happy dreams tonight knowing that the world is in the hands of a few men who love money.

[ozpoof]

Top 15 healthiest countries in the world.

Source

http://blog.healia.c...countries-world

The US is 46th lowest infant mortality according to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

I did not count the EU as this is not a country.

[OUmd]

Nobody's making you buy that stuff. It exists because people want it. It was created because someone thought someone else might want it. I don't understand how that makes them "evil and conspiring."

Actually you just defined "evil" in my mind. Want = selfishness and selfishness is the foundation of all sin.

[Arkholt]

Actually you just defined "evil" in my mind. Want = selfishness and selfishness is the foundation of all sin.

I was basically just repeating the "supply and demand" thing. Consumers demand something, manufacturers give them what they want. So the evil people are the consumers for wanting something?

You know, that would actually make a ton more sense than the rest of the ridiculous conspiracy theorizing in this thread. Put the blame where it needs to be. Why are we less healthy? Because we have incredibly unhealthy lifestyles that no one but ourselves are pushing on us.

[DH]

It could be my imagination, but it seems like a lot of these pre-packaged unhealthy foods are cheaper than healthy fresh foods. If they're trying to encourage the average person on a budget to eat healthier, that's not the way to do it.

[IloveaMormon]

Doctrine and Covenants Section 89 begins with this warning in v. 4:

"4Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—"

Conspiring men. Evils and Designs. One evil design that the Book of Mormon warns about repeatedly is the lust for power and money. As I look over our Western Society, I love our freedoms and our form of Constitutional Government, but I see a lot of evil designing in our food and medical system.

Particularly the processed, boxed foods that emerge from our food industry. These have many of the natural healthy elements stripped out, and then a few chemicals are re-added to call it "fortified". Our Nation spends more on health care than any other nation, and we are close to (if not THE) least healthy country in the world. I have seen how food corporations have dumped in sugars, flavoring, man-made sweeteners and fats, etc, in order to addict the people to the taste and convenience of our American diet, and it makes us sick taking us to the brink of death. And then we have the drug companies advertising to us directly with products designed to barely keep us from going over the brink, and make lots of profits in the mean time.

This is just one example I see of evil and conspiring men and women in the last days. I don't fault the doctors, they are just doing what they are told to do by their text books and by the USDA and FDA. The FDA and USDA don't exist to assure healthy food, but to assure profitability in the American food and drug industry. The problem more lies with them, IMO.

I agree companies like Monsanto, big pharma and FDA and other government regulatory agencies are keeping Americans sick. I try to look at the underlying causes of the situation we're in health wise. In my view, fear, feeling inadequate and unworthiness (lack of true spiritual connectedness to God) is the core issue. Think about it. Monsanto makes tons of money on the Roundup because as a society have chosen to believe green grass is somehow a measure of our character. I think about why we buy things we don't need, why we treat others poorly, why we don't take responsibility for our health choices. If we took the time to live mindfully and with joy many of our health issues would disapear. For example, dandelion 'weed' is actually a medicinal herb which has been utilized by many cultures throughout history. Dandelion greens can be put into a salad (they are sold for $5.00 a bunch at my local organic grocery), the flowers can be made into a medicinal liquid which helps clean out the digestive system and there are several other benefits. So I guess I try to focus on the power and beauty of God- and all these healthy gifts he has given to us and use them to empower and nourish ourselves rather than demonize companies like Monsanto. I eat fewer soybeans, I don't use Monsanto products, I don't eat GMO food, I try to buy local when I can. My point here is when we think about what we deem 'evil' it occurs to me in terms of our society, the 'negative' trends that dominate now were made slowly over time by millions of little 'agreements' we all make based on our inner landscape. By inner landscape I mean how we percieive our life experience. Right now our outer world is reflecting our inner world in my view which is actually a good thing like when the body gets a fever. It's a way of telling us to rest and change our behavior. The outer world is a reflection of all of us. We helped create it and we can change it starting with our inner landscape. If we choose to have this oppositional 'us' (LDS) against 'them' (everything else) this diminishes the connection with our brothes and sisters and therefore diminishes our connection to our Savior and God. To make something better we must first embrace the challenge and claim our loving responsibility (opportunity) to work together. I know it pleases our Creator when he witnesses us reaching out and engaging problems together in a loving way. We make choices for the wrong reasons the outcome long term tends to also be negative. We chose to embrace 'Fast food' so we could be more efficient, make more money to buy (whatever) to 'keep up with the Jones's' and feeding our ego to keep from feeling unworthy. We have chosen 'convenient and cheap' over quality in a variety of ways. Walmart comes to mind. You get what you give. If I don't take time to be mindful of my food choices and lifestyle and I develop disease I am making a choice to give all my power away to surgeons and drug companies. That's a choice with an outcome that simply follows those choices. So, I don't really see the 'evil'. I see evil as being the ego- which wants us to feel disconnected from our true selves 'Children of God'. The ego wants us to be on this constant struggle to prove we are worthy (when we already are but we don't really believe our own greatness). I'm not talking about striving to become our true selves- that's a good thing to live in the light of Christ. Living with joy and love is the goal God wants for us (living the Commandments). We seem to choose to want to believe he is so far from us. That we must suffer and prove ourselves to him and this also comes from a place of fear- the ego thrives on our fear and our guilt. This is where 'evil' lies. God wants us to feel his power- to feel so safe and loved by him- flaws and all. If we could get out of the rat race - the game we created, we could realize we simply need nothing else. No new cars, no huge house, no newest technology gadget, no perfect anything... just a gift of being alive and sharing the love of God through Christ all the time, every day. Sounds like heaven to me. The more connected we are with each other as human beings, the more connected we become to God. To seek 'evil' and point at something outside ourselves is a waste of time. There is nothing 'out there' but what we read into it. if I focus on staying connected to God through love and gratitude I see the beauty and amplify that beauty in myself and others. For me to seek 'evil' is to diminish my existence and my opportunity to please God. God made everything and he has no equal. He wants me to wake from the nightmare I created that there's a big war of good and evil on earth and I have to be a soldier for good. I am not a soldier. I am just one child of God who is experiencing the gift of life as he gave to all my brothers and sisters who are all my equals. Since we are all one, if I chose to fight someone I fight myself. There's no need to fight. The only 'fight' is inside of me.

[IloveaMormon]

I highly reccommend 'The Food Revolution' by John Robbins. The author is the son of Robbins ( Baskin Robbins Ice Cream company). He realized the product his family made was contributing to Americas health problems and he walked away from being a millionaire to being an advocate for healthy, sustainable, cruelty free living.

Robbins also wrote 'Healthy at 100' which focuses on 5 different cultures where centenarians are most prominent.

The commonalities were striking. These groups of people all revered and respected their elderly, they emphasized cooperation and sharing in their community and de-emphasized materialism. Their diets were 90% fresh organic local raw fruits and vegetables. Generally they had positive outlook on life and felt apart of something greater than themselves.

On the topic of conspiring men... I feel I need to focus on my conspiring ego... the source of all my problems. It is the ego which directs us to support companies that the 'conspiring men' run. When we choose to stop shopping at Walmart a ripple effect will occur. There will be less child labor and abuse of our brothers and sisters in other countries. We'll get rid of cheaply made toxic plastic 'knick knacks' which clutter our homes as we try to fill the 'void' or the 'empty space'. We are afraid of empty space in our physical world and in our minds. Our ego wants to keep us distracted with the constant buying of things. That has become one of the ways we experience our world... we are consumers and that identity is killing us. We as a country don't make anything anymore. We traded innovation for cheap consumerism and now we are financially weak. We are at the mercy of countries like China. Good news is we can simply change our minds and change our situation. We can stop being mindless consumers. We can embrace our power to choose to support companies which meet our moral standards (fair pay to their employees, environmental, craftsmanship, etc). If we choose to buy any product simply because its the cheapest we are giving our power away. Lets embrace our strengths and make healthier choices which benefit all and watch the world get better. We must first change our minds and good things will follow. To seek out 'evil and conspiring Men' is perhaps a waste of time since sustainable and effective change must first happen in the hearts of the people which begs the question.. how do we change the hearts of people? We do this by changing our hearts. We do this by focusing on our connection to God and each other. We see no evil- we see only other human beings who are doing their best in their own circumstances. It is not for me to label things evil. Like John Robbins... he does not see the Ice cream empire his dad helped create as being 'evil'. He saw it as simply contributing to the unhealthy habbits of his brothers and sisters and he chose not to be apart of it. He doesn't walk around telling people not to eat ice cream. Rather, he shares his knowlege and personal experiences with a plant based whole food lifestyle. I think when we focus on what we as individuals can do to make the world better locally, in our own neighborhoods, in our own daily choices and thoughts we will make great strides in bettering the world for its own sake. It is my goal to live with such gratitude and joy that 'evil' fades from my vocabulary.

[cdowis]

The US is 46th lowest infant mortality according to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

I did not count the EU as this is not a country.

Ann Coulter pointed out that this is a misleading statistic, since countries use different standards on what is an "infant" death. This was used as an argument for a certain political agenda.

[Calm]

It could be my imagination, but it seems like a lot of these pre-packaged unhealthy foods are cheaper than healthy fresh foods. If they're trying to encourage the average person on a budget to eat healthier, that's not the way to do it.

Healthiest would be to use nonprepackaged food and that is also the cheapest way to go.

[Franktalk]

We may not agree about some organizations and if their agendas are evil or not but I think we can have a discussion about results. For instance the global warming bunch say they are trying to prevent a disaster yet their solutions are a disaster. So we trade a potential disaster with a real one today. So the big bad warming earth is supposed to make the seas rise and some species might have a hard time of it. At least that is the story. But we have had many warming periods before in earths past and it seems that most plants and animals did just fine. In fact a warmer earth will extend the growing seasons and extend areas where we can't grow today. But these are arguments and depending on who you believe you can stand on one side of the fence or the other. So let us examine some hard evidence of the green movement and how it relates to man.

Some priorities have shifted over the last twenty years. With the projection of lower rainfall from a global warming model governments have adjusted their water storage plans. It used to be that dams were used to lessen the impact of flooding to protect property. That is no longer the priority. What the priority is now is the storage of water. So storage facilities store as much as they can and only dump water when they know the water will be replaced. If there is a forecast for rain or a snow melt that is not considered but actual run rates are. What this means is that dams will open the flood gates when too much water shows up not when it is forecast. So the flooding in Australia occurred because water levels were not dropped and when the rains came whole cities were flooded. A decision was made that the water storage was a more important risk than the risk of human lives or property. All of this shift due to global warming models not global warming. So because of a model which we have learned was done with adjusted data thousands of people lost everything. But then you may say "Those crazy Australians" but you would be wrong. The same has occurred here in the United States. In short order you will learn that the recent flooding that happened here could also have been prevented but the storage facilities were not lowered because of a change in priorities just like Australia. So man has less worth today than he did just a few years ago. So is this evil? Sure it is.

In order to save the delta smelt water has been diverted in California from farm land and allowed to flow to the sea. An entire industry has been destroyed. But don't fear there is change in the wind. For you see that large corporations are buying up that farmland in California at foreclosure prices. So tell me why would people buy farmland where there is no water? Could it be that the big companies know something we don't? Like maybe a deal in the near future about the smelt and how it really does not need the water. Which as it turns out is true. So is this evil? Sure it is.

But Frank there must be some green projects that make sense? Let us look at wind turbines. It must make perfect sense to obtain energy from the wind. Yes they are ugly and expensive and the maintenance cost is high but it is green isn't it? Sure if you keep focused on the wind and the electricity. But what is in that wind? Don't we place these devices in canyons where the wind is funneled. What could possibly use those same canyons? Something we don't care about. Just migratory birds. Millions of them get chopped up by wind turbines every year. Now if an oil company were to do this they would get sued and the government would step in. But the greens look the other way. As long as the project funnels money to the greens then the birds will just have to learn to fly better. So is this evil? Sure it is.

[jo1952]

Wherever people like to place the blame for our economy now, so be it. The powers behind it, the mis-use of bail-out money. No new permits for refineries being issued for companies in the USA.... the list goes on and on. Then I happened to see an article about an unexpected consequence to all of this. People are not having babies now. They are afraid that they cannot afford them; they are afraid what type of tax burden they will have; they are afraid of what type of world they are bringing their children into. This result is a direct breaking of the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth.

The bottom line is, as I see it, that people don't look at the choices of others as either black or white/evil or good. They tend to reason away the purposes that leaders make their choices. What we should NEVER forget is that every decision, every thought, is either FOR God, or is is AGAINST God. There is no in between.

For instance, there is a poster on another website who thinks I am being unreasonable and stupid and crazy and uneducated to believe that the on-going war in Ireland and England is a religious war. He gives all types of explanations about how this is NOT a religious war (btw, he is a Preacher). But I say that if the purpose people are still killing each other, still making political issues out of their reasons, that if they are not serving God at that very moment, then they are serving Satan. In this respect, all of the actions of mankind are religious in nature; as we cannot serve God while we are serving Satan.

Regards,

jo