Extreme Weather, A Call To Repentance?

[thesometimesaint]

Deborah:

Individually true. But when you get nearly 7 billions of small effects it forms a big effect.

http://www.youtube.com/user/greenman3610#p/a/u/2/ZGFAWzjO378

[Deborah]

Individually true. But when you get nearly 7 billions of small effects it forms a big effect.

That doesn't answer the question of what we realistically do and maintain our lifestyle and about dealing with third world and rising nations that don't take responsibility. Seriously, does anyone want to go back to horse and buggy days with poop all over the streets.

[Sky]

That doesn't answer the question of what we realistically do and maintain our lifestyle and about dealing with third world and rising nations that don't take responsibility. Seriously, does anyone want to go back to horse and buggy days with poop all over the streets.

Certainly nobody wants to go back to the horse-and-buggy days with poop on the ground…but we need to do something.

There are practical everyday things that each one of us can do to help…by using CFL light bulbs, driving less and using public transportation more, recycling more and throwing away less, taking shorter showers, cold water washing, turning off the lights when you leave a room, consuming less, eating less meat and more vegetables, replacing your furnace filter, keeping the tires on your car inflated and rotated, purchasing energy efficient appliances, and more. Nobody is completely ‘green’ all the time, but we can nonetheless take small steps to change some of our habits.

And even if human caused global warming is a hoax, the earth still does not have an infinite supply of fossil fuels for humans to burn up. We can’t rely on them forever. Existing oil reserves are being depleted, and new ones are becoming harder to find and access.

So developing and utilizing renewable sources of energy like solar, wind, geothermal, and hydro only make sense.

[Deborah]

There are practical everyday things that each one of us can do to help…by using CFL light bulbs

Which give off horrible light and for which you need a hazmat team if they break.

driving less and using public transportation more

Not practical in some areas of the country and sorry but why should Americans give up their cars.

recycling more and throwing away less, taking shorter showers, cold water washing, turning off the lights when you leave a room, consuming less, eating less meat and more vegetables, replacing your furnace filter, keeping the tires on your car inflated and rotated, purchasing energy efficient appliances, and more.

All practical solutions which many are currently doing. But if only Americans do it then it's not going to help much, even assuming humans are responsible for global warming.

So developing and utilizing renewable sources of energy like solar, wind, geothermal, and hydro only make sense.

which cost more to produce, are not economically feasible for the foreseeable future and which often take the energy of oil and coal to either supplement or produce.

[Sky]

Which give off horrible light and for which you need a hazmat team if they break.

The light quality of CFL bulbs is improving - you can choose which kind of light output you want and purchase accordingly. A bulb which uses only 14 watts compared with 60 watts – but still puts out the same light output – makes sense to me. And it lowers your energy bill every month.

And no, you don’t need a hazmat team if they break, but granted the cleanup is more involved than simply sweeping up broken glass like a standard bulb. Just handle with care and don’t break them!

Not practical in some areas of the country and sorry but why should Americans give up their cars.

Agreed that public transportation is not practical in some parts of the country, which is one reason why high speed rail would be nice. If European and Asian countries can do it, why can’t we?

And I never said that we should give up our cars completely – just to learn to be less reliant on them. The earth does not have enough oil for everybody to live like Americans with their gas-guzzling trucks and SUV’s…

All practical solutions which many are currently doing. But if only Americans do it then it's not going to help much, even assuming humans are responsible for global warming.

What makes you think that only Americans are doing it? Sorry to break it to you, but many countries are ahead of us in this area. And what about those Americans who aren't doing a darn thing because the scientific consensus does not square with their ideology?

which cost more to produce, are not economically feasible for the foreseeable future and which often take the energy of oil and coal to either supplement or produce.

That is debatable - as oil supplies become more scarce, that will change.

The bottom line is that oil is a finite resource – it won’t last forever. And the scientific consensus overwhelmingly confirms that global warming is real and is man-made. You can say what you want, but this is a fact…

[Questing Beast]

The U.N. response is to tax "users" to supplement disadvantaged countries, i.e. help them to "meet the effects of global warming". What exactly this aid is supposed to be is unclear. It appears to me to be pocketing vast sums from artificial taxes upon the "haves" to ostensibly give to the "have nots": which, if the money was actually used to advance third world countries would only turn THEM into consumers too. So how is any of that supposed to retard GW?...

[USU78]

The U.N. response is to tax "users" to supplement disadvantaged countries, i.e. help them to "meet the effects of global warming". What exactly this aid is supposed to be is unclear. It appears to me to be pocketing vast sums from artificial taxes upon the "haves" to ostensibly give to the "have nots": which, if the money was actually used to advance third world countries would only turn THEM into consumers too. So how is any of that supposed to retard GW?...

Rather gives the lie to all this hand-wringing over anthropogenesis, casting it as rather a redistribution of wealth issue.

USU "Craves watermelon. Wonders why." 78

[bluebell]

which cost more to produce, are not economically feasible for the foreseeable future and which often take the energy of oil and coal to either supplement or produce.

I always laugh when i see those commericials for the Leaf-the car that you plug in. Do people not know where most electricity comes from? Coal.

And hybrid cars are great, but what about the batteries? Aren't they highly toxic and non-biodegradable? And the stuff it takes to make them-doesn't some of it have to be mined? I read a story in the news of some company who wanted permits to mine in a national forest and around a national landmark (Devil's Tower in wyoming) to access the ingredients needed for things like the batteries in hybrid cars.

And then we have Ethynol fuel, which causes cars to get much worse MPG (thus making people fill up more and costing more money) and which also isn't very environmentally friendly to make if i'm understanding things right.

[ERayR]

I don’t agree with you that human-caused climate change is a hoax or arrogant. It’s the predominant scientific consensus and a fact.

Even the Church is starting to get on the bandwagon with the 'green' movement - by reducing its carbon footprint and being good stewards of the earth's resources – see Church’s Second Solar-Powered Meetinghouse on Track for Prestigious Construction Industry Achievement

If humans are that powerful then all you need to do is get them together and calm a few solar flares. It would help a lot. Let meknow so I can watch.

There is nothing wrong with being a good steward. It's the fanaticism that is tiring.

[ERayR]

Certainly nobody wants to go back to the horse-and-buggy days with poop on the ground…but we need to do something.

There are practical everyday things that each one of us can do to help…by using CFL light bulbs, driving less and using public transportation more, recycling more and throwing away less, taking shorter showers, cold water washing, turning off the lights when you leave a room, consuming less, eating less meat and more vegetables, replacing your furnace filter, keeping the tires on your car inflated and rotated, purchasing energy efficient appliances, and more. Nobody is completely ‘green’ all the time, but we can nonetheless take small steps to change some of our habits.

And even if human caused global warming is a hoax, the earth still does not have an infinite supply of fossil fuels for humans to burn up. We can’t rely on them forever. Existing oil reserves are being depleted, and new ones are becoming harder to find and access.

So developing and utilizing renewable sources of energy like solar, wind, geothermal, and hydro only make sense.

Do you realize that many of the things you are advocating do more eco-damage when you consider the complete process than what we are presently doing. Example CFL light bulbs.

There is ample oil reserves for a long time if they weren't locked up by the fanatic environmentalists.

It certainly makes sense to to develop these other technologies but there again when the complete process is considered many of those are not as eco-friendly as you seem to think.

[Sky]

There is nothing wrong with being a good steward. It's the fanaticism that is tiring.

And conversely, the fanaticism of the global warming deniers and the earth-polluters in the face of the scientific evidence and consensus gets really tiring for me, too.

[Nathair/|\]

Rather gives the lie to all this hand-wringing over anthropogenesis, casting it as rather a redistribution of wealth issue.

USU "Craves watermelon. Wonders why." 78

Some watermelon does sound good right now, Maybe with some whale burgers?

I always laugh when i see those commericials for the Leaf-the car that you plug in. Do people not know where most electricity comes from? Coal.

And hybrid cars are great, but what about the batteries? Aren't they highly toxic and non-biodegradable? And the stuff it takes to make them-doesn't some of it have to be mined? I read a story in the news of some company who wanted permits to mine in a national forest and around a national landmark (Devil's Tower in wyoming) to access the ingredients needed for things like the batteries in hybrid cars.

And then we have Ethynol fuel, which causes cars to get much worse MPG (thus making people fill up more and costing more money) and which also isn't very environmentally friendly to make if i'm understanding things right.

You can run a diesel engine off used fry grease. You can also turn any organic matter--even manure--into a natural gas fuel. Neither of these require advanced technology or rare earth minerals.

[bluebell]

You can run a diesel engine off used fry grease. You can also turn any organic matter--even manure--into a natural gas fuel. Neither of these require advanced technology or rare earth minerals.

I know, i actually have friends who use fry oil to run their van. It's pretty cool.

The only way this works though is because only a few people are doing it. The process relies on getting the used oil for free or extremely cheap and it relies on a constant supply of used oil. How many people in an area would need to convert their engines to this before there would be no used fry oil available? Depending on the size of the area it probably wouldn't need to be too much of a percentage of the population before it wouldn't be feasible any longer.

As for manure, as i understand it, it does take some skills and quite a few cows to make it work. That's great for people who are farmers or big companies willing to build the facilities, but it wouldn't work very well for the average person living in downtown america. If it did become a big industry, then people would start breeding and keeping cows just to feed the methane. Cows are a huge burden on the environment. It's one thing to use the cows that already exist but if it became an industry of it's own that could compete with other energy sources, more cows would be needed than we currently have right now in the U.S. We would need more food to feed them, more space to keep them, etc.

If something is only a solution as long as a tiny fraction of the population is doing it, then it doesn't seem like a very good solution to the problem as a whole.

[Nathair/|\]

I know, i actually have friends who use fry oil to run their van. It's pretty cool.

The only way this works though is because only a few people are doing it. The process relies on getting the used oil for free or extremely cheap and it relies on a constant supply of used oil. How many people in an area would need to convert their engines to this before there would be no used fry oil available? Depending on the size of the area it probably wouldn't need to be too much of a percentage of the population before it wouldn't be feasible any longer.

As for manure, as i understand it, it does take some skills and quite a few cows to make it work. That's great for people who are farmers or big companies willing to build the facilities, but it wouldn't work very well for the average person living in downtown america. If it did become a big industry, then people would start breeding and keeping cows just to feed the methane. Cows are a huge burden on the environment. It's one thing to use the cows that already exist but if it became an industry of it's own that could compete with other energy sources, more cows would be needed than we currently have right now in the U.S. We would need more food to feed them, more space to keep them, etc.

If something is only a solution as long as a tiny fraction of the population is doing it, then it doesn't seem like a very good solution to the problem as a whole.

I don't think there is a single solution that will work for everyone, but if those for whom it's practical do these things, I think it will release some of the pressure on other options and while we probably won't ever again have the cheap energy we are accustomed to, we should have enough to do what we need to do.

[bluebell]

I don't think there is a single solution that will work for everyone, but if those for whom it's practical do these things, I think it will release some of the pressure on other options and while we probably won't ever again have the cheap energy we are accustomed to, we should have enough to do what we need to do.

I agree.

I think there are solutions that will save someone money or decrease their own personal energy usage, but that's as far as the solution can go. If it tries to stretch beyond that, the solution vanishes because it's only sustainable for a relatively few people.

It doesn't make the solution any less great for the person, it just doesn't do much for a nation looking for a solution, is all.

[thesometimesaint]

There is no one single "magic bullet" solution to the energy needs of this country.

First and foremost is to use less. If every American family changed just one light bulb to a more efficient florescent one. It would save millions of barrels of oil per year. The same can be said for all of our electrical appliances. Eliminate your energy vampires IE; electronics that use power even when not on(when in standby mode). There are power strip devices on the market that do it.

Insulate, and weather strip our homes. It costs little, is largely a do-it-yourself project, and it saves fuel(money) from the very start.

Switch to a more fuel efficient car when it comes time to buy a new vehicle(You'd be surprised at how much fuel(money)just a two mile per gallon increase in efficiency will save), and car pool when ever possible. Use public/mass transportation when possible. That saves fuel, and wear and tear on not only the car, but on the driver as well. Use the trains, it costs pennies per mile.

As your own finances allow add a solar water heater. A lot of household energy is consumed on just heating water. Then add solar electric. It is relatively expensive to start, but over the lifetime of the panels there is significant savings on electric bills.

That is just a few of my ideas on how it can be done.

[Sky]

There is no one single "magic bullet" solution to the energy needs of this country.

First and foremost is to use less. If every American family changed just one light bulb to a more efficient florescent one. It would save millions of barrels of oil per year. The same can be said for all of our electrical appliances. Eliminate your energy vampires IE; electronics that use power even when not on(when in standby mode). There are power strip devices on the market that do it.

Insulate, and weather strip our homes. It costs little, is largely a do-it-yourself project, and it saves fuel(money) from the very start.

Switch to a more fuel efficient car when it comes time to buy a new vehicle(You'd be surprised at how much fuel(money)just a two mile per gallon increase in efficiency will save), and car pool when ever possible. Use public/mass transportation when possible. That saves fuel, and wear and tear on not only the car, but on the driver as well. Use the trains, it costs pennies per mile.

As your own finances allow add a solar water heater. A lot of household energy is consumed on just heating water. Then add solar electric. It is relatively expensive to start, but over the lifetime of the panels there is significant savings on electric bills.

That is just a few of my ideas on how it can be done.

Thanks for that, sometimesaint. All common sense solutions – and essentially what I’m trying to advocate.

But instead some here seem to be under the impression that I’m some sort of radical tree-hugging dirt worshipping environmentalist wacko.

I only want a clean environment and a sustainable lifestyle – for our sake and for our children and grandchildren’s sakes. I don’t see anything wrong or radical about that.

[thesometimesaint]

sky:

I like my modern conveniences. I'm all for practical no none sense solutions to our energy problems. So I see no need to return to the horse and buggy days. To me the goal should be to live a modern quality of life, and still protect our environment on which we all depend.

[Sky]

sky:

I like my modern conveniences. I'm all for practical no none sense solutions to our energy problems. So I see no need to return to the horse and buggy days. To me the goal should be to live a modern quality of life, and still protect our environment on which we all depend.

Agreed!

[Nathair/|\]

Here is what I am doing at present. I don't own a car, so I walk/bike/bus everywhere. I hope to acquire one soon, but I will only drive when I have to. I have all CFLs in my house and I only leave them on when I have to. I only run the furnace when I have to.

Beyond this, as part of my Druid Candidate year, I need to make three more changes. I hope to grow a small garden, shop farmer's markets first, and I'm not sure about the third thing. I'm certainly open to suggestions.

I think that the important thing is to see yourself as part of the natural world rather than outside of it, and to see the whole system as divine because it is God's handiwork and because everything depends on it.

Yours under the enchanted oaks,

Nathair /|\

[california boy]

Here is what I am doing at present. I don't own a car, so I walk/bike/bus everywhere. I hope to acquire one soon, but I will only drive when I have to. I have all CFLs in my house and I only leave them on when I have to. I only run the furnace when I have to.

Beyond this, as part of my Druid Candidate year, I need to make three more changes. I hope to grow a small garden, shop farmer's markets first, and I'm not sure about the third thing. I'm certainly open to suggestions.

I think that the important thing is to see yourself as part of the natural world rather than outside of it, and to see the whole system as divine because it is God's handiwork and because everything depends on it.

Yours under the enchanted oaks,

Nathair /|\

That is incredible. I am doing much the same.

I live totally on solar power, don't own a car, shop farmers markets and try to live by Brighan Youngs counsel. Work less, wear less, spend less. The church did a push on Brigham Youngs creed a while back in my area, and I took it to heart. Not sure if it was a world wide effort or just my stake presidents effort.

I am not really doing it to "save the planet" I just think it is a better way to live. It certainly takes a lot of stress out of my life, and frees me up to do more enjoyable things. And I think the farmers market vegtables just taste way better than fruit and vegtables that are picked to ship.

[Nathair/|\]

That is incredible. I am doing much the same.

I live totally on solar power, don't own a car, shop farmers markets and try to live by Brighan Young's counsel. Work less, wear less, spend less. The church did a push on Brigham Young's creed a while back in my area, and I took it to heart. Not sure if it was a world wide effort or just my stake presidents effort.

I am not really doing it to "save the planet" I just think it is a better way to live. It certainly takes a lot of stress out of my life, and frees me up to do more enjoyable things. And I think the farmers market vegtables just taste way better than fruit and vegtables that are picked to ship.

See, we can agree on something! That's another thing I do, with the exception of costumes, I don't buy new clothes unless I have to. For me, it is as much about living "in tune" with the natural world as anything. It's hard to find really solid information on how individual actions really affect the larger environment. Recycling is a good example, for some things, like metals and glass, the benefits are clear. On other things, it seems the environmental cost is far greater than just throwing the thing away.

[california boy]

The whole problem with God calling people to repentance through natural disasters is that very few people believe that God is the cause of those natural disasters. When an earthquake kills 2000 people somewhere, people no longer think "we better repent or God is going to send an earthquake our way" So if this is the reason for earthquakes, then is all that happens is 2000 innocent people have died. Kind of inefficient way to get people to repent don't you think? It seems like God could certainly figure out a better way to shock people into repentance than natural disasters.

Just my thoughts

[bluebell]

I envy you guys who live in areas where that kind of lifestyle is possible. We can all use less energy of course, like turning off lights and such, but where i live, there is virtually no public transportation of any kind and the size of the area needed to travel, plus the weather 9 months out of the year make not having a car impossible if you have children. I think we do have a farmer's market 2 months out of the year (on saturdays) but it's quite a few miles away and i have no idea where it is exactly.

Plus we live in an apartment, on the second floor, and though we do have a deck we get absolutely no sunlight because of the angle of our building and being on the North side of it. I wanted to try to grow somethings in pots but realized it was impossible without some sun.

Every area has it's challenges i suppose.

[Nathair/|\]

I envy you guys who live in areas where that kind of lifestyle is possible. We can all use less energy of course, like turning off lights and such, but where i live, there is virtually no public transportation of any kind and the size of the area needed to travel, plus the weather 9 months out of the year make not having a car impossible if you have children. I think we do have a farmer's market 2 months out of the year (on saturdays) but it's quite a few miles away and i have no idea where it is exactly.

Plus we live in an apartment, on the second floor, and though we do have a deck we get absolutely no sunlight because of the angle of our building and being on the North side of it. I wanted to try to grow somethings in pots but realized it was impossible without some sun.

Every area has it's challenges i suppose.

Actually, just by living in an apartment, you are already doing a lot. Apartments, by nature of their size, tend to use significantly less energy than most houses. Also, depending on the layout, you may also be able to reduce your heating cost by absorbing the heat transferring across the wall between you and your neighbor.

Also, you can purchase LED grow lights for your plants, so you can still have that garden. LED's are highly energy efficient.