Eldwynn Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Just for the record, I lean toward Zeus existing. I have had enough experience with the gods of my people (I'm a Celt) that I'm not willing to discount anyone elses. Beyond that, limited evidence for me only means I can say, I don't know. I consider someone's testimony of their experiences to be evidence, unless I have reason to believe they are dishonest. I don't believe there are many dishonest people in the world.And what about cargo cults? Is John coming back?
Nathair/|\ Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 And what about cargo cults? Is John coming back?I don't know. I don't have enough information to make a decision, but if I met someone who had talked to John and who John told he was coming back, I would give his story the benefit of the doubt unless I had good reason not to.
bookofmormontruth Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I am wondering about the OP. Was it sincere or just a way to show a '"point"?I ask because I haven't seen Monster comment on this thread from all the wonderful answers, yet I have seen Monster post on several other threads.
Monster Posted April 27, 2011 Author Posted April 27, 2011 I am wondering about the OP. Was it sincere or just a way to show a '"point"?I ask because I haven't seen Monster comment on this thread from all the wonderful answers, yet I have seen Monster post on several other threads.I am here. I have just been reading and absorbing. Wasn't really trying to make a point at least not consciously. I just keep asking myself how do you find God if he really exists. I can not interpret a good feeling as evidence of anything other than I feel good. To extrapolate this out to the existence of God is a fallacy to me. So I wonder if there is another way. Probably not since no one in the history of time seems to have figured it out, but the questions still interests me.
CV75 Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I just keep asking myself how do you find God if he really exists. I can not interpret a good feeling as evidence of anything other than I feel good.The approach makes all the difference. Asking, “How do you find God if he really exists?” is not the same as asking, “How do you find a God that exists?” or even, "How do I find the God/god that I have been acting under?" The latter will more likely lead one to the answer. Like any other being having any degree of influence with another, a God that exists will make Himself known. He broadcasts His light and testimony and lays out the terms for finding Him for the purpose of acting upon more and more light and knowledge.Having a purpose or intent to act is essential, and is reflected in the questions above. “If” is relatively conditional, passive and at best reactive, and shows weak resolve, intent, purpose, etc. and a weakness in the corresponding “wanting” to know. It will yield poor results. On the other hand, “that” is proactive, showing that one already acknowledges that he follows someone(s) or something(s); “god(s)” or “God” whatever these may be. He wants to define and identify his acknowledgment with greater clarity in order to act in accordance with the best that he can find. This approach yields great results, for to some degree or another everyone has been acting under the purview of the one and only true God.The God of the LDS Church has given the Light of Christ and the pattern of personal prayer and revelation to all His children. The scriptures describe the evidence obtained by conscience and prayer as more than a good feeling: light, pureness of heart (not hardness) simultaneously with firmness of mind (not blindness), fruit, peace which passeth all understanding, swelling motions, burning, etc.
Lightbearer Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Can anyone help me discover the truth of the church without relying on the spirit, or prayer, or even the testimony of others. These have proven so unreliable in my life that they must now be avoided to eliminate the possibility of further pain from doing things that lead me into bad decisions that effect my life in a negative way. Is there another more reliable way to discover the truth of the church?In a word NO! I am not being glib or condesending but I think not relying on the spirit or prayer or the testimony of others is an absolute guarantee that you will never discover the truth. You will be "ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." In fact there is a scriptural precedent to tell us if we can discover truth "any other way." (D&C 50:17-22) "Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? And if it be by some other way it is not of God. And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? If it be some other way it is not of God.Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth? Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together." So while one may seek the truth by "some other way" the result will not be of God... or rather we are liable to fall into error and experence the pain and suffering you wanted to avoid. Having said this I wish you success in your search for the truth and trust that we all will receive according to our desires.
blueadept Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Can anyone help me discover the truth of the church without relying on the spirit, or prayer, or even the testimony of others. These have proven so unreliable in my life that they must now be avoided to eliminate the possibility of further pain from doing things that lead me into bad decisions that effect my life in a negative way. Is there another more reliable way to discover the truth of the church?This sort of sounds like the journey my scientist friend challenged me prior to joining my church this past Easter Vigil. He didn't see how his religious journey would have any similarity with his journey as a scientist.I was able to point out even in science, you cannot prove everything and there is some 'leap of faith' involved. Our spiritual understanding should be a similiar journey that will eventually require a 'leap of faith.' As long as you're not jumping the Grand Canyon, you will be fine...
Hamba Tuhan Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I can not interpret a good feeling as evidence of anything other than I feel good. To extrapolate this out to the existence of God is a fallacy to me. So I wonder if there is another way. Probably not since no one in the history of time seems to have figured it out....Good point since, if you read all the responses in this thread carefully, you'll notice, obviously, that not a single one of us could discuss anything but 'good feelings'....
Monster Posted April 28, 2011 Author Posted April 28, 2011 Good point since, if you read all the responses in this thread carefully, you'll notice, obviously, that not a single one of us could discuss anything but 'good feelings'....Yes I noticed that. My question of finding alternative paths to find God inevitably gets turned back to relying on emotional feelings. I am glad it works for some. It use to work for me until those feeling lead me astray so I do not trust them. I must conclude there is no alternative.<
Hamba Tuhan Posted April 28, 2011 Posted April 28, 2011 Yes I noticed that.Sorry, mate; I clearly should have used some emoticon in my post to indicate my mild sarcasm. Could you please show me where I and most of the other posters on this thread encouraged you to rely exclusively on 'emotional feelings'? No offence, but you seem to have skipped right over nearly everything we wrote.
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