"Is BYU's Honor Code Racially Biased?"

[Calm]

Very true. They put the on campus foot ball players in Helaman Halls in one building (I cant remember the name) and the cafeteria was closed to everyone but them - which was remodeled to have quite nice amenities, much more like a restaurant than an BYU cafeteria. Also, it had a completely different menu - not nutritionally different, but much more expensive food – with Lobster being the strangest thing on the menu there. We all got to eat like second class citizens with mystery meat in dingy room built on the 40s – yet we paid the same. It never made sense to me as a convert. Yet the Life Members just simply accepted it.

Did you actually see the lobster and the menu for yourself? I knew of the higher beef content of their diet, necessary due to the physicality of the sport and to beef them up as well while I was there at HH in the mid 70s. I suspect that different coaches may have operated differently.

If you are going to demand that type of work out from someone with the wear and tear on the body, it would be wrong to insist that they eat the same as someone who was pretty sedentary most of the day. However, there are also more inexpensive ways of doing so than lobster.

[Messenger]

Did you actually see the lobster and the menu for yourself? I knew of the higher beef content of their diet, necessary due to the physicality of the sport and to beef them up as well while I was there at HH in the mid 70s. I suspect that different coaches may have operated differently.

If you are going to demand that type of work out from someone with the wear and tear on the body, it would be wrong to insist that they eat the same as someone who was pretty sedentary most of the day. However, there are also more inexpensive ways of doing so than lobster.

I did see it being served. I went in there after they remodeled their own Helaman Halls east cafateria. I figured they were in Helaman Halls, and so was I, so why cant I eat there too? The east cafateria was open to everyone before, why not now? I was told that they used it at a recruiting tool. Our cafateria used to be just like the east one, but they closed it off to everyone but those on the football team. Remember it was an all you can eat cafateria. Its just that we didnt have the same choices they had, and most of them were quite elegant as far as foods, but not much difference nutritionally and because it was all you can eat, the quantity was up to the person eating it.

[Calm]

I did see it being served. I went in there after they remodeled their own Helaman Halls east cafateria. I figured they were in Helaman Halls, and so was I, so why cant I eat there too? The east cafateria was open to everyone before, why not now? I was told that they used it at a recruiting tool. Our cafateria used to be just like the east one, but they closed it off to everyone but those on the football team. Remember it was an all you can eat cafateria. Its just that we didnt have the same choices they had, and most of them were quite elegant as far as foods, but not much difference nutritionally and because it was all you can eat, the quantity was up to the person eating it.

Yeah, I think that is kind of a cheap shot. My husband is a sports fan and grew up on watching BYU games because his dad was a professor at BYU, but I wouldn't mind losing the huge team stuff. There are lots of other sports that are at BYU where the athletes are there only because they love the sport and have to pay for the privilege to play to a certain extent, I think having comparable scholarships for athletes and scholars would be most appropriate without the extras thrown in for free. Yeah, it would likely gut the big sports, but at least you would know that someone was there because they loved what they were doing, not because they were being catered to. I don't see how that kind of attitude helps people to grow up.

[webbles]

that is not the same as saying "Of the 70 students disciplined 80% were black. Black make up 0.502% of the student population"

The overwhelming disproportion is very much a cause for concern.

I think you're looking at the wrong numbers. The 70 students are not all the students that have been disciplined since 1993. It is only counting the student-athletes. So, we need to look at the percentage of black student-athletes, not the percentage of black students. Do you have those numbers?

Also, where did the number "70" come from? I don't believe BYU publishes the disciplines it does. Is that number just from a particular sport or from all sports? Does it just affect starting players or all players (including redshirts)?

The percentage still might be a little disproportionate, but it is nowhere near what you are saying. I'd also look into how many occurred under each coach since I believe there was accusation that Crowton was a lot more lax in enforcing the Honor Code. If more minority athletes were signed up by him and then were disciplined when Mendenhall came on board, then you would need to take that into account as well.

[DH]

It's been a long time since my stint at BYU, and I was not an athlete. I don't think the Honor Code itself is racially biased, but the way it is applied could (theoretically) be. Just don't know.

My guess is that it's not so much a matter of racial prejudice as it is a matter of recruiters trying real hard to get good athletes, and stressing certain things about BYU, while deemphasizing others. The non-LDS athletes may not fully understand what's expected of them, not having grown up in such an environment.

It's possible that racial bias is a factor. As uncomfortable as it is to admit it, race is still an issue in America. But it's also possible that it's basically a misunderstanding, and that things could be improved by better educating potential athletic recruits about Honor Code expectations.

[Jeff K.]

Athletes do have a different diet due to the fact that they expel more calories and the food is not merely a privlege, it is part of their exercise program. Football players will eat one type of food, and gymnast another. I know that the University of Florida has a specific diet for their players that they want them to follow closely, a couple of people I knew there used to call it "gator meat". Penn State does too. Usually the menu is a focus on protiens and carbs while reducing fat and every team has at least one dietitian who controls the meals. It is usually easier to have the teams eating together in one location where those meals can be more closely monitored and the food choices limited.

As we learn more about nutrition the menus will change.

[Garden Girl]

I agree with Jeff about the meals, and feeding the teams in one area.

And, if anyone thinks BYU's amenities offered to its athletes even begins to approach other universities, particular the big-names, you're naive. The recruiting promises, and sign-on promises make anything BYU offers chicken feed (no pun intended).

I've been away from the university scene for a good number of years now, but when I was part of Calif's univ system, it was common knowledge (cars, special living quarters, cash, etc). Perhaps things have improved. But I still don't buy someone not knowing about the Honor Code and the consequences for ignoring it...

And, the Code applies to everyone and has since I was a student in 1959-60, so has the consequences of breaking it.

I would think that a good part of the problem is actually with prima-dona athletes who think the Code does not apply to them or they won't be held to it because of their athlete status. The Code is pretty straightforward, and when one signs to abide by it, there's no one to blame except themselves if they think they are above it, or choose to ignore it.

from the beach... GG