Anyone foreseeing some type of revelation?

[LeSellers]

the presiding patriarch is also a heretical position so that may be part of it.

Gee!!!

I hope you meant "hereditary", rather than "heretical". There's substantial difference.

Lehi

[Calm]

Understood....now back to the question.....

or is there no concern on this matter in regards to the increasing ages of the Apostles?

Assistants can be called if necessary for the administrative work, others to share in the burden of preaching.

[blueadept]

So the top 4 starting with BKP in the event anything happens to President Monson, the ages by seniority for replacing him are

BKP 86

LTP 88

RMN 86

DHO 78

...in this order. While I appreciate LDS having a love for their leadership, to not have a concern about these rather high ages of who will be the next President of their Church is amusing for this outsider...

[bookofmormontruth]

Just curious. (I suspect that most LDS members are perfectly fine with present policy and that the issue will eventually work itself out. )

It is very pretentious to call it an "issue". And it is very insulting to allude that for it to "work itself out" is to pass on to the next life.

There is no "policy". The Lord calls who He chooses and they serve at His will.

Age is never an "issue" with the Lord, but only with naysayers. They still whine about Joseph Smith being called a prophet at 14.

One of my favorite moments and quotes from Ronald Reagan when he was being criticized for his age. "I want you to know that also I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not gong to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience." Ronald Reagan 1984 presidential debate

[LDS Guy 1986]

So the top 4 starting with BKP in the event anything happens to President Monson, the ages by seniority for replacing him are

BKP 86

LTP 88

RMN 86

DHO 78

...in this order. While I appreciate LDS having a love for their leadership, to not have a concern about these rather high ages of who will be the next President of their Church is amusing for this outsider...

I don't see how this shocks you the Pope was 78 when he was ordained, and it is not likely that President Packer, Elder Perry, or Elder Nelson will out live President Monson given that President Monson is in very good health. Even if they do why does it bother you so much that the next President of the Church is in his 80's?

President Monson was 83 when we was sustained as President of the Church, we didn't have a problem with that. President Hinckley lives in to his mid 90's hopefully President Monson will too.

[bookofmormontruth]

Here are the ages of the apostles and first presidency:

TSM - 83

HBE - 77

DFU - 70

BKP - 86

LTP - 88

RMN - 86

DHO - 78

MRB - 82

RGS - 82

RDH - 78

JRH - 70

DAB - 58

QLC - 70

DTC - 66

NLA - 59

The Quorum of Twelve, mean age = 75.25, median age = 78. Include the 1st Presidency, and the mean rises slightly to 75.5

Are members concerned? I don't know. My personal experience when talking to youth about things like music, culture, and media is that the 12 and 1st Presidency are "out of touch". My experience with members, in general, is that most don't think much about the 12 and will pick and choose minor apostolic instruction - wear flip flops to church (or not), watch TV shows that would not be considered appropriate (or not), watch/play sports/work on Sunday (or not),share gospel (or not) etc... but generally follow major apostolic instruction - don't break law of chastity, follow word of wisdom, etc.

H.

You are definitely "out of touch" with the youth of LDS Church.

[LDSToronto]

The question is simple though, Are LDS concerned about the increasing age of their Top 15? IMO....you're not but no one has answered yet.

It's a hard question to answer, blue, because old age can represent opposite concepts. On the one hand, the aged can be seen as sage, wise, experienced, morally rooted, stable. They can also be seen as irrelevant, out-of-touch, not sharp of mind, error-prone, old-fashioned, feeble, weak.

The Book of Mormon shows prophets who are young and vital, with wisdom coming from God. No experience necessary, because God provides. However, statements have been made by some members that old age brings wisdom and experience. Personally, I'm not interested in the wisdom that old age and experience brings, when it comes to prophets and apostles. I'm interested in understanding if the prophets and apostles are receiving divine wisdom.

Thus, I am concerned about aged men performing as prophets, seers, and revelators, because anyone old enough can offer the same advice and wisdom that current apostles offer now. Show me a young Moroni or Nephi, filled with the power of God, who clearly displays prophetic insight. Now that would be something unique in the LDS church.

H.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Except Eyring and Uchtdorf - Eyring was called before Bednar, and Bednar at the same time as Uchtdorf.

H.

Eyring and Uchtdorf are out of order because they are counilors to the President and that assignment isn't based on seniority, but is based on the promptings of the Holy Ghost that the new President recieves.

[bookofmormontruth]

So the top 4 starting with BKP in the event anything happens to President Monson, the ages by seniority for replacing him are

BKP 86

LTP 88

RMN 86

DHO 78

...in this order. While I appreciate LDS having a love for their leadership, to not have a concern about these rather high ages of who will be the next President of their Church is amusing for this outsider...

Glad we can be your entertainment.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Show me a young Moroni or Nephi, filled with the power of God, who clearly displays prophetic insight. Now that would be something unique in the LDS church.

President Monson was called at 36, does that qualify?

[blueadept]

It is very pretentious to call it an "issue". And it is very insulting to allude that for it to "work itself out" is to pass on to the next life.

There was no offense meant but as a 'newbie' I wouldn't expect you to appreciate the troubles I've gone through to understanding my wife's LDS faith.

Pretentious?? That's funny.

[LDSToronto]

You are definitely "out of touch" with the youth of LDS Church.

I am? How so?

H.

[LDS Guy 1986]

You are definitely "out of touch" with the youth of LDS Church.

I concur the youth of the Church love being visted by the Apostles, when there is a CES fireside at BYU or elsewhere the place is always packed.

[bookofmormontruth]

It's a hard question to answer, blue, because old age can represent opposite concepts. On the one hand, the aged can be seen as sage, wise, experienced, morally rooted, stable. They can also be seen as irrelevant, out-of-touch, not sharp of mind, error-prone, old-fashioned, feeble, weak.

The Book of Mormon shows prophets who are young and vital, with wisdom coming from God. No experience necessary, because God provides. However, statements have been made by some members that old age brings wisdom and experience. Personally, I'm not interested in the wisdom that old age and experience brings, when it comes to prophets and apostles. I'm interested in understanding if the prophets and apostles are receiving divine wisdom.

Thus, I am concerned about aged men performing as prophets, seers, and revelators, because anyone old enough can offer the same advice and wisdom that current apostles offer now. Show me a young Moroni or Nephi, filled with the power of God, who clearly displays prophetic insight. Now that would be something unique in the LDS church.

H.

Nice jab at the current leadership of the Lord's Church.

Bottom line: the Lord or His servants will never accept homosexuality.

[LDS Guy 1986]

I am? How so?

H.

Cause no youth that I know of feel the Apostle are "out of touch" with them, maybe it's another Canadian thing, what doesn't carry over to the US.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Bottom line: the Lord or His servants will never accept homosexuality.

This isn't part of this discussion and there is no need to take previous disagreements and derail this thread.

[bookofmormontruth]

This isn't part of this discussion and there is no need to take previous disagreements and derail this thread.

Fair enough.

More of a bottom line: Jabs and cheap shots of the Lord's anointed are never part of any discussion or any kind of thread.

[LDSToronto]

Cause no youth that I know of feel the Apostle are "out of touch" with them, maybe it's another Canadian thing, what doesn't carry over to the US.

Well, maybe your experience is different - I did state that it was *my* experience. My experience, by the way, involves years of:

1. Attending youth activities

2. Interviewing them

3. Speaking with them about their media and entertainment choices

4. Counseling with them

That makes my experience different, not better. Just different.

Sure, they love being visited by the general leadership of the church, and love going to church activities. That wasn't really my point. My point was, when it comes to following counsel, and specifically when asking youth why they make certain media/entertainment choices that would be considered inappropriate, they tend to talk about how that choice isn't really harmful, how the general leadership didn't really experience media the way they experience media, how the music/media they partake of doesn't really lead to bad things, etc.

Essentially, while they look at the general leadership with respect, they also kind of view them as people who are like gramma and grampa - nice, old, folks who want the best for them, and tell entertaining stories, but who's advice can sometimes be taken and can sometimes be left behind.

H.

[LDS Guy 1986]

More of a bottom line: Jabs and cheap shots of the Lord's anointed are never part of any discussion or any kind of thread.

I agree completely, but we have the moderators to deal with this and the last thing anyone wants to see is the thread to get closed because it went off topic!

[LDSToronto]

Fair enough.

More of a bottom line: Jabs and cheap shots of the Lord's anointed are never part of any discussion or any kind of thread.

No one has taken a jab or a cheap shot at the leadership of the church. Blue asked a question to which there can be a spectrum of answers, and I'd suggest that just because you don't agree with the answer, it doesn't make the answer 'wicked'.

I'd also suggest you read up on the 'board nanny' rule.

H.

[blueadept]

Fair enough.

More of a bottom line: Jabs and cheap shots of the Lord's anointed are never part of any discussion or any kind of thread.

We are in agreement

[LDS Guy 1986]

My point was, when it comes to following counsel, and specifically when asking youth why they make certain media/entertainment choices that would be considered inappropriate, they tend to talk about how that choice isn't really harmful, how the general leadership didn't really experience media the way they experience media, how the music/media they partake of doesn't really lead to bad things, etc.

Maybe that is because no youth sees the harm of some of there decisions because of the pride and stubbornness of there youthfulness, I know even though I wasn't a member at the time in my teenage years (which wasn't to long ago actually) I said the same thing. My father and our pastor who said Eminem and Dr. Dre were bad for me didn't understand anything, they were "out of touch" with me. Now fast forward 6 years and I am still struggling at times to overcome the spiritual damage that those perverse and profane lyrics have on me to this day.

Thankfully I learned my lesson sooner than later and am working to rid such trash from my mind forever, but it would of been much better if I listened to my parents and my pastor in the first place and never filled my mind with such filth in the first place.

That wasn't because these leaders were out of touch with the youth, it was the fact that in there youthful stubbornness, the youth didn't want to follow the advice of there parents or Church leaders.

Every youth feels that adults especially parents and other people in positions of authority are out of touch with them.

The only surprise here is that another adult would think that a teenager is more wise or has a better understanding of reality than there parents or the leadership of the Church.

[LDSToronto]

The only surprise here is that another adult would think that a teenager is more wise or has a better understanding of reality than there parents or the leadership of the Church.

I didn't say that. Try to keep things straight. You said I was out of touch with the youth. I answered with my experience as a youth leader. I presented what I've heard. Don't make inferences that don't follow. I spoke nothing of my own feelings about what these youth have said.

H.

[LDS Guy 1986]

I didn't say that.

H.

I didn't say you said that either, in fact I didn't say anyone said that only that this is my interpretation of what was said and that I was surprised that an adult would think a youth had a better grasp of morality than a parent of church leader, if I am incorrect, please clarify for me and I will be glad to be further enlightened.

[LDS Guy 1986]

I didn't say that. Try to keep things straight. You said I was out of touch with the youth. I answered with my experience as a youth leader. I presented what I've heard. Don't make inferences that don't follow. I spoke nothing of my own feelings about what these youth have said.

H.

I never said you were out of touch with the youth, I said maybe the youth in Canada are different than the youth in the United States, maybe you have me confused for someone else.

Also if you present certain views it is safe for others to assume that you agree with those view unless you specifically clarify that these are not your opinions but the opinions of others, it appeared that you were in agreement with the youth that they were better equipped to decide what is harmful or harmless spiritually than there much more experienced parents and church leaders.

I apologize but not that this confusion was based on your error not my own.