Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Turns out she's just an athiest troll. Hmmmmm. Nothing like a troll. Now we have not one but 2 troll examples from athiests.
maupayman Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 I think most LDS, and most other Christians, recognize the difference between acknowledging God's hand in the events of the world, and being glad or praising God when other people suffer.Agreed, the vast majority of christians are not like these idiots. None the less, these people justify their horrible actions through christian scripture and doctrine. Also-to look at the issue from a different perspective-this idea that bad things can bring about good consequences isn't a purely religious way of seeing the world. I have seen parents with adult children that have in a way been thankful, though very sad, when a child hooked on drugs or alcohol, for example, hits rock bottom and ends up arrested because they hope it will be the catalyst the child needs for change.I'm sorry, are you equating alcholism and drug addiction to atheism?I know many anti-religious people don't want to see the issue as at all nuanced but there is a difference between believing or hoping that hard times can bring good consequences in the long run (whether one believes God is behind them or not) and doing what the troll on the video did. One does not automatically equal the other.What good do you see coming out of the Japanese disaster?
bluebell Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Agreed, the vast majority of christians are not like these idiots. None the less, these people justify their horrible actions through christian scripture and doctrine.I agree, but i don't understand your point.A few weeks ago i read a paper by a group of scientists from the early 1900's explaning exactly why, in scientific terms and evidence, blacks were inferior to whites. Does that mean anything in regards to science or scientists as a whole though? Every group has wackos and arrogant people in it so i don't understand what point you are trying to make by highlighting the religious kind.I'm sorry, are you equating alcholism and drug addiction to atheism?No, I'm equating people who believe that good can come from bad in personal tragedy to people who believe good can come from bad in global tragedy and suggesting that it's a fairly common hope or feeling regardless of whether or not someone believes in God.What good do you see coming out of the Japanese disaster?A Letter From SendaiHere is an excerpt from the letter-"Somehow at this time I realize from direct experience that there is indeed an enormous Cosmic evolutionary step that is occurring all over the world right at this moment. And somehow as I experience the events happening now in Japan, I can feel my heart opening very wide. My brother asked me if I felt so small because of all that is happening. I don't. Rather, I feel as part of something happening that much larger than myself. This wave of birthing (worldwide) is hard, and yet magnificent."The people who are currently experiencing the disaster are far more capable than myself of sharing some ways that good has come out of it. I'm not going to argue with them.
maupayman Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 I agree, but i don't understand your point.A few weeks ago i read a paper by a group of scientists from the early 1900's explaning exactly why, in scientific terms and evidence, blacks were inferior to whites. Does that mean anything in regards to science or scientists as a whole though? Every group has wackos and arrogant people in it so i don't understand what point you are trying to make by highlighting the religious kind.Yes, it means that scientists are prone to prejudices and biases, just like everyone else. The difference between scientists and religious people, is that scientists have built in a process to weed out and expose the nutjobs in their ranks, its called peer review. What have religious groups done to eliminate and expose groups like the Westboro Baptists, or Islamic Wahabi suicide bombers? Seems to me that they just kind of hope they'll go away.No, I'm equating people who believe that good can come from bad in personal tragedy to people who believe good can come from bad in global tragedy and suggesting that it's a fairly common hope or feeling regardless of whether or not someone believes in God.The last thing i've been thinking about, while watching the events in Japan, is what good will come out of this.Here is an excerpt from the letter-"Somehow at this time I realize from direct experience that there is indeed an enormous Cosmic evolutionary step that is occurring all over the world right at this moment. And somehow as I experience the events happening now in Japan, I can feel my heart opening very wide. My brother asked me if I felt so small because of all that is happening. I don't. Rather, I feel as part of something happening that much larger than myself. This wave of birthing (worldwide) is hard, and yet magnificent."The people who are currently experiencing the disaster are far more capable than myself of sharing some ways that good has come out of it. I'm not going to argue with them.Ok, so are talking about net outcome of good?
bluebell Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Yes, it means that scientists are prone to prejudices and biases, just like everyone else. The difference between scientists and religious people, is that scientists have built in a process to weed out and expose the nutjobs in their ranks, its called peer review.Peer review didn't keep those racist scientists out or expose them. It validated them, actually, because their peers agreed with them. What have religious groups done to eliminate and expose groups like the Westboro Baptists, or Islamic Wahabi suicide bombers? Seems to me that they just kind of hope they'll go away.What would you suggest religious groups do to get rid of the religious wackos?The last thing i've been thinking about, while watching the events in Japan, is what good will come out of this.That's too bad. Trying to find the good is, in my opinion, a much healthier and happier way of life. It hurts nothing and no one and helps to give hope.Ok, so are talking about net outcome of good?I'm talking about any and all types of 'good'.
maupayman Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Peer review didn't keep those racist scientists out or expose them. It validated them, actually, because their peers agreed with them.Its not always an instantaneous process, but to date has done a great job of weeding out these types of articles. What would you suggest religious groups do to get rid of the religious wackos?An active campaign to eliminate the notion of infallible scripture would be a great starting point. Interpretation of scripture is where these wackos get their justification from. That's too bad. Trying to find the good is, in my opinion, a much healthier and happier way of life. It hurts nothing and no one and helps to give hope.True, though its kind of delusional to talk about the good that comes from an event, when compared with the cascades of negative consequences associated with the event.I'm talking about any and all types of 'good'.Fair enough, i'm sure we could find some possible good things that will come, as a result of the Japanese disaster. Again, why would I focus on those, when the horrible results and consequences resulting from the disaster are astronomically larger? Countless people's lives have been destroyed, but hey some people had an epiphany!
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 An active campaign to eliminate the notion of infallible scripture would be a great starting point. Interpretation of scripture is where these wackos get their justification from. I agree, but I think that is only the starting point. Getting people to actually read the scriptures in there entirety is the next big step in that education process. Because as much as the idea of inerrancy plays a part, the constant use of scriptures of context is the biggest thing behind a lot of extremists. The difference between a devout and fundamental Christian and a militant extremist Christian is if they take read the scriptures in context. A fundamentalist is strict and bases his life only on the scriptures (which say to love your fellow man) a militant uses those strict rules to justify attacking and killing other people, remember Timothy McVeigh?
Tapir Whisperer Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUsO6LgXqE0The scariest thing about all of this is that I almost married a woman just like her. Talk about avoiding a real disaster.
Mark Beesley Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Ok, so are talking about net outcome of good?Is "good" quantifiable?Fair enough, i'm sure we could find some possible good things that will come, as a result of the Japanese disaster. Again, why would I focus on those, when the horrible results and consequences resulting from the disaster are astronomically larger? Because you can't do anything to undo the catastrophe. But you can do something to ameliorate the consequences. That is called "good." That is why you focus on the good -- because it is something you can be a part of.
seriously honestly Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 In a different thread, 44Foxtrot, an atheist poster, criticized the LDS Japan Area leadership for expressing gratitude for the safety of the missionaries in the area.He was roundly criticized in return by many posters, including myself.Then I come across this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUsO6LgXqE0As I watched, I not only felt disgusted at this young woman's barbaric religious fundamentalism.I also felt regret there are children being indoctrinated by their parents to think like this - maybe even in our own church.I also felt (momentarily) embarrassed to call myself a theist, a christian, and a mormon.I see why secularist critics are so eager to excoriate us for having beliefs even remotely similar to this young woman's.Is it ever okay to suggest God causes natural disasters, even though our own scriptures are replete with such examples?How do we deal with this type of thinking in our own faith?There is an "LDS" poster on the other site I frequent (he post here too, actually) that believes all natural disaster are a result of the peoples sins. That aside, how does this girl think that an earthquake is going to convince an atheist that God exist???
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Yeah - the girl in the video was trying to make a point. Pretty badly if you ask me, but there ya go...I wonder if will be coming out as an 'atheist troll' soon...?Or maybe he's actually for real...?!
DH Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 How should we deal with people like this?I say smack 'em up side the head!Personally, I don't think God is all that involved in the workings of the planet. Disasters happen just because they happen. God doesn't cause disasters any more than he made it sunny and warm (where I live) today. I believe God exists, and that he cares about us, but that for the most part he doesn't play around with the weather or plate tectonics, or help people find their car keys.
bluebell Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Yeah - the girl in the video was trying to make a point. Pretty badly if you ask me, but there ya go...I wonder if will be coming out as an 'atheist troll' soon...?Or maybe he's actually for real...?!I wouldn't be surprised if he was real-such people definitely do exist. When the girl's youtube video was put up in the 'in the news' forum, everyone thought it was legit. Such people do make it easier for others to mock Christianity, just as the girl has now made it easier for people to mock atheists.It's too bad all around.
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I wouldn't be surprised if he was real-such people definitely do exist. When the girl's youtube video was put up in the 'in the news' forum, everyone thought it was legit. Such people do make it easier for others to mock Christianity, just as the girl has now made it easier for people to mock atheists.It's too bad all around.Agreed.
Ah Pook Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 When these kinds of natural calamities occur I defer to the eleventh commandment: s**t happens.
Vance Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Nah! It was because they thought the "world is mine". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTXO7KGHtjI&feature=related
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