Joining the Church against Family Wishes

[Yirgacheffe]

and she actually had to sneak out of the house to come to church.

Somehow I disapprove of this and also disapprove of adults not discouraging "sneaking out of the house" but then I disapprove of the Disney Channel.

[Libs]

My personal observations and discussions with the faithful portion of apostate families tends to show exactly what I've described. Latter-day Saints don't contemplate divorce just because their spouses want to stop going to Church; but they may find the unrelenting anti-Mormon harangues beloved of some difficult to live with.

Just one example: Richard Baer is an apostate and anti-Mormon who perpetuates the meme that "the Mormon Church breaks up families." When his father died, his siblings invited him to participate in the funeral service, including being a pallbearer. His response was to tell his grieving "loved" ones that he could not lower himself to act as a pallbearer for someone who was burning in hell for the sin of believing in Mormonism.

That's how "the Mormon Church breaks up families" in real life.

Regards,

Pahoran

I'm sure there are plenty of horror stories on both sides.

[Balzer]

A high school senior bore her testimony in sacrament meeting Sunday. I had not seen her before, and she said how she had recently been baptized in spite of the fact that her father is active in a local evangelical church, and she actually had to sneak out of the house to come to church.

(The local evangelical church is very popular and is the one where I went to a Christmas eve service last year.)

She said she couldn't remember how many retreats and youth activities she had been to at this local evangelical church, but she never felt the Spirit until she found the LDS Church.

As an interesting counterpoint, the ward music conductor bore her testimony at the end of the meeting, saying it is her sister and brother-in-law who started up this particular evangelical church some years ago, and that she is frequently invited to activities and sometimes goes.

Her next words were poignant, I thought.

"They have a band and are very accomplished in their music, and their choir is wonderful. In our ward, we have only a piano and an organ. The accompanist doesn't always follow my lead. And we don't always even sing the same verse. But this is where the Spirit is."

I was touched by these companion testimonies and was wondering what others here might think, including whether anybody has overcome such familial resistance to switching religions.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I'm curious, did this girl start going to the LDS church because of an LDS boy she liked?

Respectfully,

Balzer

[Balzer]

I would disagree a bit here, the Spirit cannot tarry when false teachings are being presented least the spirit becomes a liar by making us believe that teachings such as the trinity and God is only an invisible spirit are true.

I know that your can feel the spirit at times in other churches (I have felt it myself especially as a child), but not like you can feel when the truth of the Restored Gospel is being taught, the Spirit quickly comes and tarries much longer when the Fullness of the Gospel is being taught IMO.

Yeah I agree with you. I have never felt the spirit in the LDS church for similar, if opposite, reasons.

Respectfully,

Balzer

[Balzer]

Brings up a question in my mind of how valuable a family relationship is to God if said family is not LDS? Matthew 10:34-39 seems to indicate not very. I don't think we should intentionally go out to break up a family, but as a Church, are we perhaps too sensitive when it comes to conversion strife in families or are we just right? What do you think?

Are you saying that Jesus is referring to the LDS church in Matthew 10:34-39? Are you really saying that God does not value the non-LDS family? With all due respect, this is a bizarre post.

Respectfully,

Balzer

[Jeff K.]

During my mission an elder was attempting to baptise somoene against their mothers wishes. I would not agree to it and said I would bring it up with the bishop as well as the mission president (the zonies and apes were on board, I as a junior companion was not). My perspective was that of a convert whose parents gave permission but only after meeting several LDS. I would not dishonor the parental bonds by doing such a thing to a family. If my child became enamored with another religion, I would be hurt, but I would also know (or want to know) that she loved us enough to seek permission until she or he was of such an age to live his/her own life.

I love spirit I feel at church, even when things go horribly wrong during a primary sacrament, during a musical presentation where the words are forgotten or voices crack, and when things go perfectly. Because it is then you see that sliver between the colossal attempts to be perfect in presenting worship to the Lord, and the imperfect frailties of our intellect and bodies as we fall just a bit short. In that small space we see how the Lord lifts us and makes us better than we are.

[blueadept]

Kudos Jeff for being able to step up as junior companion at the age of 19 and being able to challenge the issue at hand. The impression of people who get visited by missionaries is that it's a numbers game where the goal is how many baptisms can they get to show success. Your story is actually about real concern for those considering joining your ranks.

[sjdawg]

Not to hijack the thread, but I went through the same thing when I left the church. My parents, both very devout believers, had a very difficult time with my decision, as they had raised me in the LDS church since my birth. When I left at 25 years old, it caused them much grief and there is still a rift in our relationship to this day. I am treated differently (worse) then my believing siblings, but I have to tell you, as difficult as it was and despite the strained relationship with my LDS family, it was worth it, for me.

ditto. (although now a couple of years after the fact I don' t necessarily think I am treated worse than others, just different.) It still remains their personal mission to show me the error of my ways. It is one of the reasons I frequent this site. I like to be aware of information presented by both sides (for mormonism and against mormonism)

My personal family (wife and kids) are much happier now that we are out of the LDS Church.

On a side note, My parents had 7 kids, my inlaws had 7 kids. Of those 14 kids raised in very LDS families (stake president, Bishop, High Council, RS presidents), always super-active in the church, only 7 remain in the LDS faith as adults. Of the 7 that have left the LDS faith there are 4 returned missionaries. (2 Sister Missionaries, 2 Elders). I am pretty sure my in-laws are currently serving a couples mission solely in the hope that it will inspire their children to return to the fold.

[consiglieri]

I'm curious, did this girl start going to the LDS church because of an LDS boy she liked?

Respectfully,

Balzer

That was precisely the first question I asked, Balzerino.

Unfortunately, I have yet to receive a satisfactory answer . . .

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I would disagree a bit here, the Spirit cannot tarry when false teachings are being presented least the spirit becomes a liar by making us believe that teachings such as the trinity and God is only an invisible spirit are true.

I know that your can feel the spirit at times in other churches (I have felt it myself especially as a child), but not like you can feel when the truth of the Restored Gospel is being taught, the Spirit quickly comes and tarries much longer when the Fullness of the Gospel is being taught IMO.

I was responding to the line in the OP that stated that the girl "never felt the Spirit" until she was in a LDS Church. I simply cannot buy that the reason why is because the Spirit can only be felt in LDS meetings, because I know differently, from experience. And I believe others also know otherwise also. The only difference in when additional truth is revealed in a believing Restoration church, the Spirit can be felt confirming that principle or teaching which they won't get at a regular church. But the Spirit can still be felt in great abundance no matter what building a truth is being taught in.

[emeliza]

I think I am one of the very fortunate ones out there. I converted almost 5 years ago. My former church members were supportive, although sad that I left. I think only a couple people made negative comments. Most of my friends were supportive though they did try weird things, one bought the book Kingdom of Cults by Walter Martin to learn about the LDS religion and another wanted to have weekly debates with me on why Mormon's were wrong. Thankfully both of them became more positive over time and accepting of the idea. I wouldn't ever say they like my religion, but they like that I am strong in my religion. My parents and siblings don't understand, but are happy and supportive of my choices. One of my close friends had been praying that I would find an answer to my questions on where to join and although he said my answer was not what he wanted, what he wanted wasn't important and he was glad God answered me.

I often wonder how I would have responded to life had things been different and my family not supported me? I hope that it wouldn't have backed out on my conversion.

[blueadept]

Thankfully both of them became more positive over time and accepting of the idea.

I've witnessed parents and family doing this over time as well.

There's this one lady we visit at the local senior care home who is a devout Catholic as well as the rest of her family (almost). I'm always amused to see her big-button phone with all her kids phone #'s listed and programmed for quick dialing and I see her youngest child also listed (the convert to LDS). I know of the times when her conversion strained the family relationships. I still remember when she went through her RCC Confirmation since she was dating my brother at the time. She met a good LDS man, converted and they have several kids. Over time, the family saw all the positive aspects of her marriage and they've mended their relationship with her.

Seeing her name on her mom's quick dial list reminds me that over time, harsh feelings can heal especially in regards to family/friend relationships.

[Balzer]

That was precisely the first question I asked, Balzerino.

Unfortunately, I have yet to receive a satisfactory answer . . .

Then there's the answer I'm sure.

Respectfully,

Balzer

[Balzer]

Brings up a question in my mind of how valuable a family relationship is to God if said family is not LDS? Matthew 10:34-39 seems to indicate not very. I don't think we should intentionally go out to break up a family, but as a Church, are we perhaps too sensitive when it comes to conversion strife in families or are we just right? What do you think?

Since BCSpace hasn't responded to my earlier post, does anyone else feel this way? Does anyone else believe Christ was referring to the LDS church in this section of Matthew? Don't mean to obsess but this one is blowing me away.

Respectfully,

Balzer

[Jeff K.]

I think the incident in Matthew reflects adults who choose to leave the bonds of one religion for another, not children. In the context of the times, adults would often respect their parents wishes to remain in their particular sect (pharisees, essenes, and so on). Basically Christ is stating that if you love the traditions of your fathers more than you love the Lord, then you are not worthy of being with the Lord, you have in effect made your choice. So the context is adult, nor for children whose safety, food, and growth would still rely upon the graces of their parents. At least as I see it.

I cannot agree that a child, or a young man or woman, who is not yet an adult, or in some way emancipated (as I was at 16), would have the blessing of the Lord by disrespecting the parents who have fed and clothed that child. As an adult, then of course it is a different matter entirely.

Such patience and forebearence also pays in other ways. The parents are often impressed at the importance our church pays towards the respect of family, our basic unit, in which we feel we are organized as God is organized, and that even with the importance we hold our religion and the desire to have all come unto, we will also respect the parents who provide sustenance for this brother or sister who has not yet joined our church. Parents will in turn respect our religion and sometimes their hearts will soften.

[LDSToronto]

Somehow I disapprove of this and also disapprove of adults not discouraging "sneaking out of the house" but then I disapprove of the Disney Channel.

Same here. The girl is a high school senior, so I assume is around 17 years old... As a parent of a high school senior, if I knew that a bunch of adults were conspiring to have my child do something that was life-changing without my knowledge, I'd be mighty furious at the adults involved in the situation.

(BTW, I'm not blaming Consig here, I think he would have done the right thing if he was in a position to do something)

H.

[emeliza]

I thought you had to be 18 to be baptized without parental permission. I have full legal and physical custody of my oldest, but I had to get her dads permission to have her baptized when she was 9.

[CV75]

I happened to have a conversation with a friend last night. He joined the Church in the 70's at age 16. His parents were Catholic, and his father, who converted to Catholicism to marry, signed a document promising to raise the children Catholic. For this reason permission for my friends' baptism was first denied. However, my friend said that after receiving this disappointing news, he went to pray and that if he was to be baptized into the true church, now is the time. A few minutes later his father approached him with the solution: "If you attend Catholic mass each week, then I see no reason you cannot join the LDS Church. I'm still raising you Catholic despite what you do with it."

As for myself, I had a testimony of the church since I was 13 years old, but because of lack of parental permission, I had to wait until I was of legal age. In the meantime, I was not allowed to attend church or receive the missionaries. But I had the testimony, the scriptures, and a few books and manuals my older brother gave me (he was able to join the Church because he was of age), and these were sufficient to see me through until I could join.

[blueadept]

I happened to have a conversation with a friend last night. He joined the Church in the 70's at age 16. His parents were Catholic, and his father, who converted to Catholicism to marry, signed a document promising to raise the children Catholic. For this reason permission for my friends' baptism was first denied. However, my friend said that after receiving this disappointing news, he went to pray and that if he was to be baptized into the true church, now is the time. A few minutes later his father approached him with the solution: "If you attend Catholic mass each week, then I see no reason you cannot join the LDS Church. I'm still raising you Catholic despite what you do with it."

As for myself, I had a testimony of the church since I was 13 years old, but because of lack of parental permission, I had to wait until I was of legal age. In the meantime, I was not allowed to attend church or receive the missionaries. But I had the testimony, the scriptures, and a few books and manuals my older brother gave me (he was able to join the Church because he was of age), and these were sufficient to see me through until I could join.

Thanks for sharing. IMO, this is an important topic in today's times for parents to deal with before our kids potentially drop this bomb shell upon us.

Scenario 1 that you shared about your friend is not a bad answer but it doesn't sound like the parent will ever really respect his child's decision. "I'm still raising you Catholic despite what you do with it."

Scenario 2 simply sounds like a losing proposition all the way around for the parent.

When I dealt with this issue when my youngest daughter was living with her mom, I was sitting in a counselor's office with the counselor, her mom, daughter and myself when she said she wanted to be baptised a Christian in a non-denom church. I smoothly said that was fine and the conditions was that when she visited me that she allowed me to teach her the Catholic faith until she was 16 and finished her junior year in HS, I would take her to the local non-denom church as well as Mass, and after that I would respect her choices in regards to which church she wanted and I would be fine with that. The counselor's expression was priceless and this happened 5 years ago. I'm happy to say that my daughter will be confirmed, who is on fire with her Catholic faith, into the church this Easter. I'm not sure that would have been the result if I didn't handle that situation well 5 years ago.

Parents need to be prepared to handle this issue regardless of their beliefs or non-beliefs.

[CV75]

IMO, this is an important topic in today's times for parents to deal with before our kids potentially drop this bomb shell upon us.

Parents need to be prepared to handle this issue regardless of your beliefs or non-beliefs.

I do think I need to explain Scenario 1 better: My friend explained that his father, in saying this, was relieved that he could both meet his obligation to raise his son Catholic and still allow his son to follow his heart. My friend believes his father received a revelation to reconcile what was for him (the father) a conflict as well. The mother, by the way, was all for it and it was the father who struggled. So they seem to have had a healthy relationship between each other and the Lord, which is key in being prepared for this kind of situation.

Background and Epilogue for Scenario 2: My case had more to do with attitudes toward child-rearing rather than concern about religious affiliation per se or eternal salvation (my mother's response: "You are slapping me in the face!"). While I was certainly disappointed with not being able to join the Church, in the long-run, no harm/no foul; I persisted in my beliefs and lived the LDS faith as best I could. The Lord certainly sustained me and for many years I've felt restored a hundred-fold. While relationships were at first strained about my joining (but otherwise very positive), over the years my parents' attitude shifted, especially as another brother joined and the grandchildren came along. While my mother died in the 1990's, my father joined the church a few years ago in his 80's.

It appears from your experience and my friend's that healthy parental attitudes and relationships with their children are the best preparation for children finding finding their own way. I credit my parents for teaching me to keep an open mind and pray, and though they may have had trouble with the outcome for a time, their own open-mindedness and spirituality led to the improvements in the years following.

[erichard]

I thought you had to be 18 to be baptized without parental permission. I have full legal and physical custody of my oldest, but I had to get her dads permission to have her baptized when she was 9.

My wife Piper was attracted to me, and took the missionary lessons behind the back of her parents. The day she turned 18 I baptized her in Lake Powell. When we got back to her house, all her things were in a pile in front of her home at the street. She moved in with a large family in the ward, already being somewhat of a friend of the mother.

I am positive she had to wait to be 18 to be baptized without her parent's permission.

Richard

[Balzer]

Brings up a question in my mind of how valuable a family relationship is to God if said family is not LDS? Matthew 10:34-39 seems to indicate not very. I don't think we should intentionally go out to break up a family, but as a Church, are we perhaps too sensitive when it comes to conversion strife in families or are we just right? What do you think?

Hi BC I saw you on here tonight and was hoping you might explain this post for me.

Respectfully,

Balzer

[Yirgacheffe]

My wife Piper was attracted to me, and took the missionary lessons behind the back of her parents. The day she turned 18 I baptized her in Lake Powell. When we got back to her house, all her things were in a pile in front of her home at the street. She moved in with a large family in the ward, already being somewhat of a friend of the mother.

I am positive she had to wait to be 18 to be baptized without her parent's permission.

Richard

More adults encouraging sneaking around behind parents backs

[erichard]

More adults encouraging sneaking around behind parents backs

I agree that there were problems with what happened. Even with me.

Still, considering our children and how well they turned out, I am convinced Piper was inspired by the correct spirit. Sometimes our goals are correct, but the way we go about it is not completely correct.

Richard

[Deborah]

More adults encouraging sneaking around behind parents backs

An 18 year old is an adult. It's interesting that the parents had her clothes already outside the house, so obviously they knew what was happening.