Mormon Belief in the Supernatural

[LeSellers]

"Supernatural" by definition is outside of nature.

However, what is "natural" depends on one's point of view.

A computer is "natural", but I believe Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin would have considered it "outside of nature". Television would have fascinated both of them, and even though they both understood magnetism and knew of electricity, they would still have been astounded at the magic involved.

Then, there is the old story of the explorer in Africa who, standing in the proverbial pot, water up to his thighs, snatches out his cigarette lighter, snaps it open, and shouts, "This is magic!" The chief of the tribe is impressed and replies, "Sure is. That's the first time we've ever seen one work the first time!"

Lehi

[Jeff K.]

Definitions or root words are not always accepted by common nomenclature. Supernatural may also mean "unexplainable" by presently known natural standards. This does not mean it occurs outside of nature. It becomes a term relative to knowledge.

Last night I was watching a presentation on the plagues of Moses and how these plagues could could be explained by natural means. It reflects that what we knew at one time as being "supernatural" suddenly becomes "natural but rare". Perhaps supernatural is merely a question or manipulation of probabilities?

[semlogo]

However, what is "natural" depends on one's point of view.

A computer is "natural", but I believe Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin would have considered it "outside of nature". Television would have fascinated both of them, and even though they both understood magnetism and knew of electricity, they would still have been astounded at the magic involved.

Then, there is the old story of the explorer in Africa who, standing in the proverbial pot, water up to his thighs, snatches out his cigarette lighter, snaps it open, and shouts, "This is magic!" The chief of the tribe is impressed and replies, "Sure is. That's the first time we've ever seen one work the first time!"

Lehi

When I use the word "supernatural" I mean that it is literally outside of nature, not just seemingly. I don't mind if others define it differently. I don't believe in the supernatural as I understand the word. To me it's the same as magic.

[LDS Guy 1986]

The Lord will do His work, just the way He wants to do His work. To say that He can only do His work through your church is the height of arrogance and pride, which is exactly the sin the Lord warned Ephraim about.

Your opinion is noted but the scriptures say there is only one faith, It also days God's house is one of order.

There is only one true church, one true priesthood, and one way by which the power of God is used by men on this Earth.

Also your verse implies a prophet is a priesthood holder, a prophet can hold te priesthood but being a prophet doesn't make one a priesthood holder automatically. A prophet is simply one who receives revelations from the lord.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Your opinion is noted but the scriptures say there is only one faith, It also days God's house is one of order.

There is only one true church, one true priesthood, and one way by which the power of God is used by men on this Earth.

Also your verse implies a prophet is a priesthood holder, a prophet can hold te priesthood but being a prophet doesn't make one a priesthood holder automatically. A prophet is simply one who receives revelations from the lord.

Unbelievable

[nicolasconnault]

LDSGuy, I've just done another round of scripture study. Still not a single scripture saying that miracles can only be performed by the Priesthood. "These signs shall follow them that believe", followed by a list of miracles, is found in Mark, Mormon and D&C 84. I've also not found a single quote from a General Authority that proves your point. You have failed to support your view with any coherent, cogent argument.

The same goes with your view that it is impossible to have "true" faith in Christ unless you also believe in the restoration of the Gospel.

You may use reasoning, but unless you base your argument in scriptures and teachings of the restored Gospel, you are going against the teachings of the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants:

"And he commanded them that they should teach nothing save it were the things which he had taught, and which had been spoken by the mouth of the holy prophets." Mosiah 18:19

[LDS Guy 1986]

LDSGuy, I've just done another round of scripture study. Still not a single scripture saying that miracles can only be performed by the Priesthood. "These signs shall follow them that believe", followed by a list of miracles, is found in Mark, Mormon and D&C 84. I've also not found a single quote from a General Authority that proves your point. You have failed to support your view with any coherent, cogent argument.

The same goes with your view that it is impossible to have "true" faith in Christ unless you also believe in the restoration of the Gospel.

You may use reasoning, but unless you base your argument in scriptures and teachings of the restored Gospel, you are going against the teachings of the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants:

"And he commanded them that they should teach nothing save it were the things which he had taught, and which had been spoken by the mouth of the holy prophets." Mosiah 18:19

I am not asking you to accept what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accept as truth, I am only discussing the merits of there position.

You confuse this discussion board with a debate forum, we are here to discuss not debate.

There will be interpretations of the scripture and disagreements, but no one is here to get someone else to convert to there logic. We are here to all discuss the beliefs of our faiths and the theories we have because of our faiths.

You are still mistaken though because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does teach that we are the only way to Christ, that all other Church's creeds are an abomination in the sight of the Lord. That there doctrine are the Great and Abominable Church of Satan.

This doesn't mean that we are better than them, just that we follow the light of Christ, we are suppose to reach out and help them leave the false doctrines of man made Churches and come into the light of the one true Church of Jesus Christ.

If they choose to not accept us and our Church that is fine, we are to love them and respect there agency.

[nicolasconnault]

I am not asking you to accept what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accept as truth, I am only discussing the merits of there position.

You confuse this discussion board with a debate forum, we are here to discuss not debate.

There will be interpretations of the scripture and disagreements, but no one is here to get someone else to convert to there logic. We are here to all discuss the beliefs of our faiths and the theories we have because of our faiths.

You are still mistaken though because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does teach that we are the only way to Christ, that all other Church's creeds are an abomination in the sight of the Lord. That there doctrine are the Great and Abominable Church of Satan.

This doesn't mean that we are better than them, just that we follow the light of Christ, we are suppose to reach out and help them leave the false doctrines of man made Churches and come into the light of the one true Church of Jesus Christ.

If they choose to not accept us and our Church that is fine, we are to love them and respect there agency.

Oh well, I've tried, but I give up like the others. Complete waste of time to "discuss" with you.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Oh well, I've tried, but I give up like the others. Complete waste of time to "discuss" with you.

I appreciate your input, but the doctrine of the Church do not comply with what you are saying.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I am not asking you to accept what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accept as truth, I am only discussing the merits of there position.

You confuse this discussion board with a debate forum, we are here to discuss not debate.

There will be interpretations of the scripture and disagreements, but no one is here to get someone else to convert to there logic. We are here to all discuss the beliefs of our faiths and the theories we have because of our faiths.

You are still mistaken though because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does teach that we are the only way to Christ, that all other Church's creeds are an abomination in the sight of the Lord. That there doctrine are the Great and Abominable Church of Satan.

This doesn't mean that we are better than them, just that we follow the light of Christ, we are suppose to reach out and help them leave the false doctrines of man made Churches and come into the light of the one true Church of Jesus Christ.

If they choose to not accept us and our Church that is fine, we are to love them and respect there agency.

It just gets worse and worse

I believe you would do well to let others engage in missionary work for your church.

[Jeff K.]

More than once or twice I have thought the same of you.....

Perhaps a bit more charity in the area would help you understand better.

[LDS Guy 1986]

It just gets worse and worse

I believe you would do well to let others engage in missionary work for your church.

This forum isn't about missionary work, it is about discussing topics many of which are too meaty for investigators. Remember that Paul teaches to feed them milk before the meat, if I was giving missionary lessons my first lesson wouldn't be about the state of the Church as the One True Church of Jesus Christ, even to non active members of other faiths this could be a deal breaker.

You present the restored gospel line upon line, precept upon precept, as the investigator is ready to receive it.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

This forum isn't about missionary work, it is about discussing topics many of which are too meaty for investigators. Remember that Paul teaches to feed them milk before the meat, if I was giving missionary lessons my first lesson wouldn't be about the state of the Church as the One True Church of Jesus Christ, even to non active members of other faiths this could be a deal breaker.

You present the restored gospel line upon line, precept upon precept, as the investigator is ready to receive it.

The thing is people who have been members of your church longer then you are disagreeing with you. Apparently, they haven't reached your level of enlightenment yet.

[LDS Guy 1986]

The thing is people who have been members of your church longer then you are disagreeing with you. Apparently, they haven't reached your level of enlightenment yet.

Thing is people will always disagree, now I am going from the scriptures and the teachings of the Church, so I am solid in my sources.

[Ron Beron]

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[Deborah]

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I can only imagine what you would say.

[nicolasconnault]

Thing is people will always disagree, now I am going from the scriptures and the teachings of the Church, so I am solid in my sources.

Since you still haven't provided any relevant scriptures or references to "teachings of the Church" to support your views, I don't see how you can say that.

Remember, your arguments are:

1. Miracles can only be performed through the Melchisedek Priesthood. Anything else that looks like a miracle comes from Satan
2. People who don't believe in the restored gospel of the LDS faith cannot have true faith in Christ

I disagree with both. In essence you are saying: "I have a perfectly clear understanding of the Truth, anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.". I hope you will eventually change your paradigm, because it is not healthy.