Truths that Mormons have to accept, or maybe not?

[Tramper]

Truths that Mormons have to accept, or maybe not?

Do we Mormons have to accept the following statements? Or do you disagree? If so, why?

If revelation continues today through the General Authorities of the Church, we MUST accept the following:

1. God chooses NOT to warn his people regarding impending calamities (WTC attack, tsunami, hurricanes).

2. That current prophets can contradict dead prophets and Church members must accept the changes without question.

3. In a world filled with moral dilemmas, God has felt compelled to reveal that the number of ear piercings of member women is an important show of obedience and worthy of attention at the highest level.

4. That historians cannot be trusted to report history because they "idolize the truth". (B.K. Packer)

5. That General Authorities can (with God

[Deborah]

Using the emotional response as the ultimate truth test is not something unique to the LDS Church. It is/has been used widely throughout the world.

You say "we" Mormons yet you apparently have no idea of what revelation is, why or how it is received. You are also obviously confusing emotion with the testimony of the Spirit which is not at all the same thing.

[ELF1024]

Truths that Mormons have to accept, or maybe not?

Do we Mormons have to accept the following statements? Or do you disagree? If so, why?

And we are to accept all this as sure knowledge based on a spiritual/emotional "witness" which supplants all reason and rational thought and sets them at naught.

Can we trust emotions as a truth tester?

Using the emotional response as the ultimate truth test is not something unique to the LDS Church. It is/has been used widely throughout the world. An example: 80 million people once embraced this method: "Reason can treacherously deceive a man, but emotion is always sure and never leaves him."

I disagree on general principle.

If revelation continues today through the General Authorities of the Church, we MUST accept the following:

1. God chooses NOT to warn his people regarding impending calamities (WTC attack, tsunami, hurricanes).

Why would God need to warn us about specific events? We have been warned in general. Stay out of debt, keep up with your food storage. However it seems many of us have it reversed, we have a years worth of debt, and no food.

We are in the last days, we know where the world is going, and why we are in the handbasket. How much more do you need?

2. That current prophets can contradict dead prophets and Church members must accept the changes without question.

Never without question. Read your Scriptures, and Pray, fast, and you will recieve an answer. Just ask the Apostle James (1:5) if it worked for him, why not us?

3. In a world filled with moral dilemmas, God has felt compelled to reveal that the number of ear piercings of member women is an important show of obedience and worthy of attention at the highest level.

Huh? I have no clue what your talking about.

4. That historians cannot be trusted to report history because they "idolize the truth". (B.K. Packer)

History is written by the victor. The understanding of man will always be less than the knowledge of God.

5. That General Authorities can (with God

[Tramper]

You say "we" Mormons yet you apparently have no idea of what revelation is, why or how it is received. You are also obviously confusing emotion with the testimony of the Spirit which is not at all the same thing.

What is the difference then? Former believers says that their testimonies were nothing but emotions.

[thesometimesaint]

Tramper:

See Straw man argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[TAO]

1. God chooses NOT to warn his people regarding impending calamities (WTC attack, tsunami, hurricanes).

Sometimes God makes us go through trials so we are better people.

2. That current prophets can contradict dead prophets and Church members must accept the changes without question.

Sometimes, God has different commandments, depending on the people involved.

3. In a world filled with moral dilemmas, God has felt compelled to reveal that the number of ear piercings of member women is an important show of obedience and worthy of attention at the highest level.

God offers advice beyond commandments, and it is up to you whether or not you want to take it.

4. That historians cannot be trusted to report history because they "idolize the truth". (B.K. Packer)

Not only that, some of the time, they manipulate it.

5. That General Authorities can (with God

[Deborah]

Former believers says that their testimonies were nothing but emotions.

So? In any case that isn't always true. Many people who leave the church don't deny the testimony of what they received. Oliver Cowdery, case in point. People leave for many reasons. People who deny the former truths they "knew" usually have another agenda.

[Kevin Christensen]

Truths that Mormons have to accept, or maybe not?

Do we Mormons have to accept the following statements? Or do you disagree? If so, why?

If revelation continues today through the General Authorities of the Church, we MUST accept the following:

1. God chooses NOT to warn his people regarding impending calamities (WTC attack, tsunami, hurricanes).

2. That current prophets can contradict dead prophets and Church members must accept the changes without question.

3. In a world filled with moral dilemmas, God has felt compelled to reveal that the number of ear piercings of member women is an important show of obedience and worthy of attention at the highest level.

4. That historians cannot be trusted to report history because they "idolize the truth". (B.K. Packer)

5. That General Authorities can (with God

[David T]

Truths that Mormons have to accept, or maybe not?

Do we Mormons have to accept the following statements? Or do you disagree? If so, why?

If revelation continues today through the General Authorities of the Church, we MUST accept the following:

1. God chooses NOT to warn his people regarding impending calamities (WTC attack, tsunami, hurricanes).

True. Although there are constant warnings to prepare for such calamities, and to prepare to be able to assist others who are effected by them.

2. That current prophets can contradict dead prophets and Church members must accept the changes without question.

False. Question we should, and question we must. We are repeatedly asked to confirm what we hear by study and personal revelation.

3. In a world filled with moral dilemmas, God has felt compelled to reveal that the number of ear piercings of member women is an important show of obedience and worthy of attention at the highest level.

President Hinckley established a standard. Didn't see a claim to it coming from the Almighty.

4. That historians cannot be trusted to report history because they "idolize the truth". (B.K. Packer)

False. See the Church Historian's Press, Joseph Smith Papers, Mountain Meadows Massacre book, etc.

5. That General Authorities can (with God

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

What is the difference then? Former believers says that their testimonies were nothing but emotions.

Oh, so it must then just be an emotion huh.

Current members say that their testimonies are more than just an emotion. And in fact current members don't claim it to be an emotion at all.

So a.... who is ready to leave the church this time around?

[Jason]

I can't speak for others, but my testimony is not "just an emotion".

[ElfLord]

1. God chooses NOT to warn his people regarding impending calamities (WTC attack, tsunami, hurricanes).

Well it was bombed unsuccessfully once before and the government knew of Bin Ladens plot to finish the job. If the church had said anything about it then the critics would be crying that it was common knowledge that anyone could have predicted and the GA's would probably be in federal prison as co-conspirators.

[Lightbearer]

What is the difference then? Former believers says that their testimonies were nothing but emotions.

I think this explains the great mystery of why people apostatize from the Church... if emotion is all their was to their conversion, no wonder their love turns to hate. But the spirit of the Lord is not mere emotion, although that is a mantra of most atheists and others who deny the Holy Ghost.

The following scripture declares:

(D&C 8:2) "Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart."

[changed]

Truths that Mormons have to accept, or maybe not?

I know an active member (who directs the choir) who is also an atheist... so in my experience, pretty much anything goes... (no, he cannot give talks or go to the temple, but he is a member, likes the people, thinks there is value in bringing children up to believe in God, just as there is value in santa...)

3. In a world filled with moral dilemmas, God has felt compelled to reveal that the number of ear piercings of member women is an important show of obedience and worthy of attention at the highest level.

I was not always a member (hense "changed") I have a tat, body piercings (that I have taken out) etc. etc. I do think it is important to show respect to our bodies though - temple of our spirit and all that!

4. That historians cannot be trusted to report history because they "idolize the truth". (B.K. Packer)

?? I think everyone should know that history really is his-story, and everyone is always going to have their own views about what really happened, that it is good to get info from multiple sources and multiple viewpoints...

5. That General Authorities can (with God

[Garden Girl]

3. In a world filled with moral dilemmas, God has felt compelled to reveal that the number of ear piercings of member women is an important show of obedience and worthy of attention at the highest level.

Hello Tramper...

You may want to take a look at Isaiah 3:16-26 in regard to counsel or revelation on apparel and adornment... and the symbolism, i.e., worldliness and pride. I view Pres Hinckley's comments in this light... and IMO rightly so.

GG

[thesometimesaint]

Tramper:

GBH advice was just for the youth of the Church. If I was young and looking for that first real job. I too would follow it religiously.

[Doug the Hutt]

Truths that Mormons have to accept, or maybe not?

Do we Mormons have to accept the following statements? Or do you disagree? If so, why?

If revelation continues today through the General Authorities of the Church, we MUST accept the following:

1. God chooses NOT to warn his people regarding impending calamities (WTC attack, tsunami, hurricanes).

2. That current prophets can contradict dead prophets and Church members must accept the changes without question.

3. In a world filled with moral dilemmas, God has felt compelled to reveal that the number of ear piercings of member women is an important show of obedience and worthy of attention at the highest level.

4. That historians cannot be trusted to report history because they "idolize the truth". (B.K. Packer)

5. That General Authorities can (with God

[rodheadlee]

What is the difference then? Former believers says that their testimonies were nothing but emotions.

There is a huge difference. When I had a revelation, it was a wide awake dream. I was driving down the fwy in heavy traffic. It was so profound there was no doubt. This revealtion lead to the temporal saving of my wife's life. It was revealed to me that she had a terminal disease if something was not done ASAP. I got her to the doctors and pushed, pushed pushed for the tests. Many Christians prayed for her from many different Churches, some on this very board helped get us set up with financing. The tumors were removed and no cancer is currently in her body as we speak. All the doctors said the same thing "it's so amazing we found this so early". Yes, there were many emotions involved but the revelation was not one of them.

I say temporal saving as we are all going to die. Ask and ye shall recieve.

[Jason]

1. God chooses NOT to warn his people regarding impending calamities (WTC attack, tsunami, hurricanes).

Anyone who believes in God has to believe this. In fact, not only do they have to believe that He doesn't always warn us, but that he allows these disasters to happen when He could just as easily stop them all (it's the old "problem of evil" conundrum).

2. That current prophets can contradict dead prophets and Church members must accept the changes without question.

I don't know where you're getting "without question", when the prophets are constantly telling us to go get our own testimony of what they tell us, but yes, current prophets can contradict past prophets. Line upon line, precept upon precept, etc.

3. In a world filled with moral dilemmas, God has felt compelled to reveal that the number of ear piercings of member women is an important show of obedience and worthy of attention at the highest level.

Ah, but what is this advice about ear piercings really about? Is it about "God says you can't have multiple piercings" or is it "God says that you should respect your bodies and avoid the empty excessive trends of pride in the world"?

4. That historians cannot be trusted to report history because they "idolize the truth". (B.K. Packer)

Well I certainly don't trust historians to be accurate. There isn't a history written that wasn't written with an agenda.

5. That General Authorities can (with God

[erichard]

Well it was bombed unsuccessfully once before and the government knew of Bin Ladens plot to finish the job. If the church had said anything about it then the critics would be crying that it was common knowledge that anyone could have predicted and the GA's would probably be in federal prison as co-conspirators.

Hi,

Towers coming down is a scriptural idea. All a prophet has to do is to read this idea from the scriptures and when it happens everyone will remember the prophet reading about it and see it as a prediction.

25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter,

when the towers fall

.

--Isaiah 30 8th century BC

15 Behold, the destroyer I have sent forth to destroy and lay waste mine enemies; and not many years hence they shall not be left to pollute mine heritage, and to blaspheme my name upon the lands which I have consecrated for the gathering together of my saints.

16 Behold, I have commanded my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., to say unto the strength of my house, even my warriors, my young men, and middle-aged, to gather together for the redemption of my people, and

throw down the towers of mine enemies

, and scatter their watchmen;

--D&C 105 June 22, 1834

19 And thus men have done from the beginning, and ye have the religions of the world which cry, "lo here" and "lo there", having a form of godliness, but having no power and authority from Me.

20 And none of these edifices that men create shall stand at the last day, for they are not in accordance with My word.

21 For only through that rock which is the foundation of My church in all ages can man receive the truth.

22 And I choose whom I shall make My spokesmen, for man chooseth not this gift, but it is given by the spirit of truth, who is the Comforter, even the Holy Ghost.

23 And many become angry when they find this gift has been denied them because of their pride and self-righteousness.

24 And even though they have heaped upon them great honors by the hands of men, they receive this gift only upon the basis of righteousness.

25 Because of this they seek to hide their iniquity and endeavor to appear to men as having great humility and righteousness, and in this manner they deceive many, and cause many to err.

26 And they accept titles of Prophet, Seer and Revelator from the children of men, and pretend they have these gifts.

27 And again they deceive many and cause many to honor them and exalt them above the heavens.

28 Behold I say unto you, their

towers shall be hewn down

and their deceit blasted and exposed.

29 They shall not be able to hide their shame, for it shall be exposed for all to see, and their reward shall be contempt and wormwood.

30 And there are but few in this world who seek after Me, for all seek after their own images and set up their own gods.

--2BC 31, March 8, 1977

Richard