Agnostics, atheists, Jews, Mormons score highest on religious questions

[CQUIRK]

BTW, I scored a 13/15; that's still pretty good for me.

[lizrenowden]

Interesting quiz - got 12/15 but had to guess on the american public school ones and didn't know the last one - just that it wasn't Billy Graham - other one I probably would have got if I stopped to think about it.

[Ralph Man]

Which shows that such people are very ignorant and perhaps prejudiced from their ignorance, and have no right to claim that they "know" about our beliefs.

Well, you can't generalize from general group performance to any specific evangelical. Anyone participating on a message board about religious apologetics is much more likely to be informed than a general population member, for instance.

And in this context, it's worth noting that no group performed well. Every single group's performance was abysmal. Some more so than others, obviously. This is consistent with poor performance in the general population on just about every knowledge test I've ever seen, but is disappointing nonetheless. Only 61% of LDS got the Martin Luther question right. And that's with a 1/3 chance of getting right through random guessing. So, I'd quote The Wolf in Pulp Fiction here, but that's a board violation.

[blueadept]

15/15. That was too easy. Of course we're more interested than the average person here on MADB, but still, how do Americans go through life with such a basic lack of understanding of the world?

13/15. IMO, the separation of church and state play a factor for Americans. I don't believe my own kids would do well at all with the non-Christian questions but my 2 foreign exchange kids would think the questions were too easy and wonder why everyone didn't know the answers. Having them for 9 months was awesome and enlightening....

[TAO]

Hello Six,

A wise man indeed!

Hope all is well in the Six world and I hope your son finds himself well as he serves.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Aaargh, you tricked me (it's ok, lol, I have a hard time reading people's tone on discussion board posts, and tone is how I determine what people mean)

XD XD XD.

[Ron Beron]

15/15, but then, I'm a history geek as well.

I got the same, but I'm just a geek. The actual test was a bit longer. I would like to find that one.

[mtomm]

Three hours of church on Sunday, Family Home Evening, Seminary,Mututal during the week. Especially for Youth, and 8 hours of General Conference twice a year (10 for the guys). The Church News, Church magazines. Two year missions! Sheesh. We had better know something. Even if you only participate in half of that, that is a lot of religion in a year.

Or maybe we can just thank our converts, right TSS?

[scooby]

The actual test was a bit longer. I would like to find that one.

http://pewforum.org/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey-Who-Knows-What-About-Religion.aspx

Pew Forum Religious Knowledge Questions

Questions below have been paraphrased for brevity; most response options were rotated. See topline survey results (Appendix B) for exact wording and question order.

Bible

What is the first book of the Bible? (Open-ended)

What are the names of the first four books of the New Testament, that is, the four Gospels? (Open-ended)

Where, according to the Bible, was Jesus born? Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Nazareth or Jericho?

Which of these is NOT in the Ten Commandments? Do unto others

[Stargazer]

Take the Pew Forum quiz and see how you do:

http://features.pewf...ious-knowledge/

I scored 14 out of 15. Got the last one wrong.

I scored exactly the same. I don't have the faintest idea of what the "Great Awakening" is. Beyond being certain Billy Graham wasn't the leader of it, I never heard of the other two gents, either. I guessed wrong.

This survey was discussed on Michael Medved's radio show this past week, btw.

[Stargazer]

13/15. Dumbest guy here.

But still scoring higher than 86% of the population.

I would expect that amongst THIS crew, the scores would be well above the national median. We are, without exception, and regardless of what religion/areligion we adhere to, educated in the subject of religion in general, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

"He must be guilty, or he wouldn't be here!"

[MatthewG]

I scored 87%, 13 out of 15. Not bad.

[Ralph Man]

Interesting that Mormons were singled out for three separate questions in the survey, but not other Christian splinter groups of comparable size in America.

[Ralph Man]

I scored exactly the same. I don't have the faintest idea of what the "Great Awakening" is. Beyond being certain Billy Graham wasn't the leader of it, I never heard of the other two gents, either. I guessed wrong.

It was a period of religious revival in the late colonial period. The founder of your religion was influenced by and arguably is a part of the Second Great Awakening, so it's worth looking into for that fact alone.

[Mordecai]

I wonder who these"Mormons" were who the poll measured because onlyl 91% of them (us?) knew the Joseph Smith's religion was "Mormonism".

I really believe someone made an error here, but who that was is an open question.

Oh, I got all 15; and it seems I'm not the only one who's a history buff.

Lehi

I noticed the same thing. Only 90% of "Jews" knew that Moses led the exodus. A good percentage of people got 0% correct, too. That tells me that certain atheists, anti-Mormons and anti-Semites took the quiz under false pretenses.

Also, 15/15. The last one, I had a hunch but wasn't sure. Got it right anyway. (Obviously not Billy Graham, though... ha ha).

[MistahStokes]

I noticed the same thing. Only 90% of "Jews" knew that Moses led the exodus. A good percentage of people got 0% correct, too. That tells me that certain atheists, anti-Mormons and anti-Semites took the quiz under false pretenses.

Stay classy Mordecai.

[LeSellers]

Interesting that Mormons [sic] were singled out for three separate questions in the survey, but not other Christian splinter groups of comparable size in America.

Of course, it is also true that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the most significant USmerican-grown religion in the world. Only the Watchtower Society comes close.

Lehi

[thesometimesaint]

mtomm:

Converts hold a special place in my heart, and not just because I am one. I'm a firm believer in the Scripture "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

[Ralph Man]

Of course, it is also true that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the most significant USmerican-grown religion in the world. Only the Watchtower Society comes close.

Lehi

Jehova's Witnesses and Adventists were the two that popped to my mind. The LDS Church is wealthier and more powerful at the moment, but not overwhelmingly so to the point that 3 distinct questions to none makes sense to me.

[Ralph Man]

Notably, Mormonism was kept out of "elements of Christianity" to form its own distinct category. It's not something a Mormon necessarily would or should be happy about.

[LeSellers]

Jehova's [sic] Witnesses and Adventists were the two that popped to my mind. The LDS Church is wealthier and more powerful at the moment, but not overwhelmingly so to the point that 3 distinct questions to none makes sense to me.

I challenge you to name a couple from either group who are in Congress or governors or judges in USmerica, or who hold the position of CEO or other notable office in any major corporation. While relatively insignificant in terms of numbers, we have widely known and respected out of all proportion to those numbers. I believe that would qualify us as "powerful".

Whatever wealth the Church has is the legitimate result of the Lord's laws of Tithing and Offerings.

I likewise ask that you name any region remarkable as the home of either group and for almost nothing else (in spite of the natural or man-made wonders found there).

While stationed in Italy, some 35 years ago, a woman I met was technically from Utah (because her soldier husband was), but had never been there. She lamented that she had constantly to deny she was LDS ("Mormon" in her vernacular) simply by reason of the affiliation. Anything similar for the Adventists you know or the Witnesses you have met? I rather doubt it.

Notably, Mormonism was kept out of "elements of Christianity" to form its own distinct category. It's not something a Mormon necessarily would or should be happy about.

No, we neither are nor should be. However, one wonders why this is important to you.

Lehi

[Ralph Man]

LeSellers -

Jehova's witnesses actively avoid political participation, so that question is like asking for celebrated Mormon wine-makers or notable Mormon televangelists. It's a bit unfair and misunderstands the religion. It's also beside the point, as I was comparing relative size and acknowledging there being a difference in relative wealth and power of the groups. It's odd to me that other Christian splinter groups received no questions since the size numbers aren't enormously different. Protestant denominations like the SBC's also did not get singled out. It's an odd way to do it, if you ask me.

I'm sure there are 7th Day Adventist politicians and businessman with success. You don't think there are? There are enough of them that it would be shocking if there weren't. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure Magic Johnson is SDA and he's a successful businessman. Obviously they don't have overwhelming influence in an entire state in the way LDS do, but that's a quirk of history. They also aren't as numerous. But this also is not the only way in which influence happens in our society. Young earth creationism as we know it is a byproduct of Adventism and that informs the beliefs of almost half of all Americans today.

However, one wonders why this is important to you.

It's not. Maybe one should stop wondering so much.

[William James]

I am a convert, am not following in the footsteps of my parents, and joined the church after meeting with / studying with many different religious groups from all over the world. Yes, many members grew up in the church, the premortal spirits are placed in families that they agree with, I needed the experience of life with and without the church, and that is what I got.

The difference for the LDS faith, is that the Spirit is real - members have spiritual experiences here, that is why I am a member, not through books/theological arguments - but because of a spiritual experience, and continued spiritual experiences....

I don't know that all members have had spiritual experiences, but for those who have, leaving is not about study - it's about going against what the Spirit testified to them is true because they disagree with God about something. There is a big difference between knowing something is true, and knowing where you fit into the big picture, ... difference between knowing God is real, and actually likeing/agreeing with God - knowing that He is loving... once someone has had a genuine spiritual experience, it's a whole new ballpark.

Changed:

There is, in my opinion, a great temptation for those who have perceived spiritual experiences to project that subjective experience on to others and assume that the only way others could come to a different conclusion is by sinning or lying to themselves. As your faith matures and you go through more of life, you will most likely realize at some point that your assumption is incorrect. In fact, were it possible to get all believers of all faiths to honestly communicate the spiritual experiences they have had, you would probably find stark irreconcilable conclusions about beliefs and doctrines, based upon equally strong sincerity and spiritual experiences/witnesses.

I think it is extremely rare that people knowingly "disagree with god." But people do reach conclusions that purportedly true revelations and doctrines are actually false and stem from the ignorance and prejudices of mankind (even church presidents). Most people who have been raised in the church have had it beaten into their heads from early on that any information or idea which tends to undermine church doctrine is suspect. They are, in effect, bred with an instinct to second-guess themselves if they find themselves starting to think that church teachings may not be true. For anyone who is sincere and intellectually honest in considering whether to leave the church, we can expect nothing less than that they would leave the church only after intense study and scrutiny of the church and its teachings, to satisfy themselves that they are not going astray by leaving. In fact, I think it is fair to say that those who merely "wish to sin" will generally go and do it; no study is necessary.

Aside from all of the above, you may want to take a step back and consider how offensive it is to insinuate, by using the oft-quoted phrase, "You can leave the church, but you can't leave it alone," that everyone who leaves is lying to themselves or is just looking for an excuse to sin, or has some personal vendetta against the church. If nothing else motivates you, perhaps you can at least appreciate that it would be much more difficult to persuade someone to return to church if you begin with the premise that they lack sincerity and intellectual honesty.

As for my own self, I have not chosen to leave the church, even though after much study, prayer, and contemplation, I have concluded that there are some very serious errors in current teachings. The main thing that keeps me holding on is the hope that some day, whether by the prophet's own initiative, or by the promptings of science, the discontented membership, and even the criticism of outsiders, the leadership will ask God the questions which heretofore have never been seriously asked, and will be open to the answers which for decades have been staring them in the face, with ever greater sternness and obviousness (as was the case in the history of discriminating against blacks).

[William James]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/092810dnmetpewstudy.2a19a12.html

15/15

[todd520]

And in this context, it's worth noting that no group performed well. Every single group's performance was abysmal. Some more so than others, obviously. This is consistent with poor performance in the general population on just about every knowledge test I've ever seen, but is disappointing nonetheless. Only 61% of LDS got the Martin Luther question right. And that's with a 1/3 chance of getting right through random guessing. So, I'd quote The Wolf in Pulp Fiction here, but that's a board violation.

Yes, the real story here is about abysmal catechism or bible study of members.

The GC talks on pride also hit home - LDS should not be bragging about our scores here.

[LeSellers]

LeSellers

As I have done seemingly countless times, I invite you to call me "Lehi" as my mother-in-law does, and as Presidents Clinton and Carter did. It's the name on my birth certificate (although they seem to be out of style nowadays) and my commission and retirement orders.

Jehova's [sic] witnesses [sic] actively avoid political participation, so that question is like asking for celebrated Mormon wine-makers or notable Mormon televangelists. It's a bit unfair and misunderstands the religion. It's also beside the point, as I was comparing relative size and acknowledging there being a difference in relative wealth and power of the groups. It's odd to me that other Christian splinter groups received no questions since the size numbers aren't enormously different.

Yet the original point was about, as you say, power and wealth. If the Witnesses avoid political involvement, then they are not powerful in any measurable way, while we Saints (or some of us) are notably active in political circles, holding federal to local offices, appointed and elected. Whether this is a good thing, you cannot make a claim that we are no more powerful than others, and then excuse their lack of power still maintaining they have it.

Protestant denominations like the SBC's also did not get singled out. It's an odd way to do it, if you ask me.

What is there about the SBCs that could lend itself to such questions?

How were the Southern and Northern Baptists divided?

1. Over the right of slave owners to hold positions of power in their congregations.
2. The SBC allowed blacks to attend meetings with whites.
3. The Northern congregations were centrally organized, while the southern congregations were relatively independent of each other.

I'm sure there are 7th Day Adventist politicians and businessman with success. You don't think there are? There are enough of them that it would be shocking if there weren't. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure Magic Johnson is SDA and he's a successful businessman.

One out of one million a hundred thosand? They're definitely not as large in USmerica as is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I suspect that the numbers of LDS CEOs far outreaches that of Adventists.

Obviously they don't have overwhelming influence in an entire state in the way LDS do, but that's a quirk of history. They also aren't as numerous. But this also is not the only way in which influence happens in our society. Young earth creationism as we know it is a byproduct of Adventism and that informs the beliefs of almost half of all Americans today.

If no one knows, is it important who originated it?

There is no USmerican faith (if I may use such a potentially misleading term without confusion) that begins to match the size and influence of The Church of Jesus Christ.

Lehi