J P Holding

[Scott Lloyd]

I've been reading through this thread, amazed at some of the contention on here. But one thing keeps bugging me.

Why does it matter What JP Holding's name is or isn't? I don't see how it's at all relevant to any current discussion on mormonism nor why it's the inspiration for such contention. Did I miss a memo?

As I see it, Ms. Jack was upset at being twitted by DCP for her remark about McGregor's review in the FARMS Review about Holding's book. But to rally opinion to her side she needed something stronger than "Peterson was mean to me in an e-mail." So she found it in the alleged wrong committed against J.P. Holding by using his real name in a footnote. Holding, after all this time, had pretty much forgotten the whole thing, but Kevin Graham (according to Graham's own account) has been able to rile him up anew.

[rockslider]

As I see it, Ms. Jack was minding her own business posting on a board that DCP will not post to. DCP sent Ms. Jack an unsolicited but surely "jovial" pm, about her comments in the thread. Ms. Jack responded, with her own version of a jovial pm, which hurt DCP's feelings and so he started a public thread: thrilla-in-vanilla

things went down hill from there.

[selek]

As I see it, Ms. Jack was minding her own business posting on a board that DCP will not post to. DCP sent Ms. Jack an unsolicited but surely "jovial" pm, about her comments in the thread. Ms. Jack responded, with her own version of a jovial pm, which hurt DCP's feelings and so he started a public thread: thrilla-in-vanilla

things went down hill from there.

Which clearly demonstrates (as did the "Problems with the other Boards" thread) precisely where your sympathies lie.

You are much more sympathetic to those openly antagonistic to the Church and who are willing to smear and malign good people in order to advance a hostile and destructive agenda.

This, of course, is not news.

[rockslider]

Which clearly demonstrates (as did the "Problems with the other Boards" thread) precisely where your sympathies lie.

You are much more sympathetic to those openly antagonistic to the Church and who are willing to smear and malign good people in order to advance a hostile and destructive agenda.

This, of course, is not news.

Pretty strong judgment/accusation.

What if I told you I wept as the spirit whispered his approval of my last post in that other thread?

It was responding to pride that I spoke out there, and here.

As the spirit continues with me, then so will my hostile and destructive agenda press forward.

[thewildbunch]

"Adieu". A passive aggressive anti-Mormon insult. An subtle reference to Jacob 7:27, from an anti-Mormon . A completely ironic, twisted use of the way "adieu" was used in the Book of Mormon. In the Book of Mormon it was used as a loving, fancy way of saying goodbye. From Jack, it is not goodbye , it is mockery, it is her middle finger to all the stupid Book of Mormon believers.

[selek]

Pretty strong judgment/accusation.

What if I told you I wept as the spirit whispered his approval of my last post in that other thread?

It was responding to pride that I spoke out there, and here.

As the spirit continues with me, then so will my hostile and destructive agenda press forward.

Your posturing denial aside, a quick review of your posts reveals a consistent theme.

You are all but unwaveringly hostile and cynical to those who support the Church and remain faithful, and an unfailing defender of those whose agendas are critical of the Church and its members.

The relation follows as surely as night follows day, however you attempt to justify it.

It matters no how harsh the accusation is if the evidence supports it.

And for the record, if you actually read my sentence instead of simply preening before your mirror, you'll see that I accuse you of being sypathetic to those willing to smear and malign in order to advance a hostile and destructive agenda.

I did not accuse you of promoting or owning such an agenda.

Still, a sympathetic ally is still a sympathetic ally.

[rockslider]

I've spoken the truth here, accept it or reject it as you choose.

[selek]

I've spoken the truth here

As have I.

, accept it or reject it as you choose.

Let the Lord judge between me and thee- but in the meantime, you can get your affirmation and pats-on-the-head from your pals at the Shady Rest and RFM.

[mercyngrace]

You are all but unwaveringly hostile and cynical to those who support the Church and remain faithful, and an unfailing defender of those whose agendas are critical of the Church and its members.

Selek,

As loathe as I am to interject myself, I won't let this particular accusation stand.

Rockslider has been unwaveringly supportive of me and I support the church and remain faithful. I will stand before the pleasing bar of God and testify as much. You have my witness.

Cate

[selek]

Selek,

As loathe as I am to interject myself, I won't let this particular accusation stand.

Rockslider has been unwaveringly supportive of me and I support the church and remain faithful. I will stand before the pleasing bar of God and testify as much. You have my witness.

Cate

Hi Cate,

If you look at my earlier post, I said "all but unwaveringly hostile and cynical"

I did not say there were not exception that proved the rule.

As even a broken clock is right twice a day, so too does rockslider occasionally violate his private dictum.

Besides, how could someone be anything but supportive of you?

On the other hand, I applaud your loyalty to someone whom you consider a friend.

I will point out that in regards to my comment that Rockslider could collect his "affirmation and pats-on-the-head from <his> pals at the Shady Rest and RFM.", the remarkable Mister Graham is already foaming at the mouth at the former location.

Apparently, an attack- however mild- on rockslider is an attack on one of Kevin's own.

Based on the level of squealing from that quarter, I appear to have struck a nerve....

[Calm]

"Adieu". A passive aggressive anti-Mormon insult. An subtle reference to Jacob 7:27, from an anti-Mormon . A completely ironic, twisted use of the way "adieu" was used in the Book of Mormon. In the Book of Mormon it was used as a loving, fancy way of saying goodbye. From Jack, it is not goodbye , it is mockery, it is her middle finger to all the stupid Book of Mormon believers.

This goes too far....Jack is not anti-mormon, I have personally seen her be supportive and respectful of the Church, many of its doctrines and those who belong to it, including her husband and many close friends of which I am one.

There is a difference between having disagreements no matter how harsh on a personal level and having disagreements of a general belief system. One should not confuse the two.

[selek]

This goes too far....Jack is not anti-mormon, I have personally seen her be supportive and respectful of the Church, many of its doctrines and those who belong to it, including her husband and many close friends of which I am one.

There is a difference between having disagreements no matter how harsh on a personal level and having disagreements of a general belief system. One should not confuse the two.

I agree- except the evidence is clear that Ms.Jack- for whatever reason- took this well past the level of general disagreement and stoked this issue as a series of personal attacks, then tried to distance herself when public derision arose and forced her to defend those attacks.

Sorry- however Ms.Jack behaves in general, she went far off the reservation with this one.

And now, having crossed two UMW in a single thread, I will spend the rest of my evening changing my name and getting new credit cards issued for my next stint in the Witness Protection Program.

[alter idem]

This constant war between MADB and MD is getting tiresome. I don't know about the rest of you, but it's making me feel like I just want to stay away. I don't post much and now I'm feeling like I don't even want to read. And DON'T tell me to stay away from threads like this. Frankly, there's not much of interest so I open them out of sheer boredom. And the sniping and grousing is prevalent on other threads as well. Too many here get all prickly that anyone would even dare ask a question or disagree! It seems they think apologetics involves intimidating one's opponent into silence.

What the heck is wrong with some of you? If this is what constitutes Mormon Apologetics, then frankly, it's counterproductive to the mission of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I realize this is not Sunday School, but it shouldn't be Roller Derby either.

And...I don't understand why the moderators leave threads open that clearly foment acrimony between the two boards. I know they are around because they've been doing their moderating jobs, but they leave this and JSkains threads open.

I'm tired of the complaints about people on the other board. I'm tired of the defensiveness and the posturing. I'm tired of the hostility. I'm tired of the excuses that 'we have to defend ourselves against their attacks'. I ask, Do you really HAVE to? Does it do any good? No. It's only a lame rationalization to keep doing what doesn't work!

If anyone here really wants to undermine MD, then ignore them. Do NOT take the bait and ignore what they write about you. IF MADB did that, Dr. Scratch would lose his power. AND DON'T bring private problems to the public board, that is if you don't want to hurt your own online reputation. This silly incident between Ms. Jack and Dr. P has damaged BOTH their reputations IMO (and they did the damage themselves by displaying their failings for all to see!). Neither one came out looking good--they both 'lost'. When others say nasty or untrue things about you, if you are not extremely careful in how you respond, it will only hurt you. It won't change anyone's mind. Unless you are expert at it, you'll be worse off for responding.

It takes two to create the fight; if posters here don't like MD and want to see them lose their power, then stop feeding them by paying attention to their antics and bringing complaints about them here.

There...I'm feeling better now that I've said my piece.

[wenglund]

I love it when people express disdain for people expressing disdain for each other.

I like it too when people tell people not to tell them what not to do.

Like I say, it is all about market forces. People will shop for ideas and discussion at venues that suites them best. This venue is not for everyone, and every venue is not for me. To each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Calm]

Sorry- however Ms.Jack behaves in general, she went far off the reservation with this one.

I have no intention of even thinking about making a judgment call on this one for anyone involved save myself, especially since it's not just about what went on online. I come from a family of decent size and married into an even larger family and one thing I've learned is that in the family it is best to leave the solving of any issue to those involved of necessity and for those on the sidelines to stay out of it as it only prolongs any disagreement or trouble the more people that get involved. I look on Jack as part of my extended family (and am ashamed to say that I am no better at keeping up contact with her than I am with my blood relatives.....) and I look on DCP as a good friend. What I do know and will judge is that I have never had any complaint for their dealings with me.

And now, having crossed two UMW in a single thread, I will spend the rest of my evening changing my name and getting new credit cards issued for my next stint in the Witness Protection Program.

Quite wise.....

However, a batch of something sweet will go a long way to mitigating our wrath.

[selek]

wise.....

However, a batch of something sweet will go a long way to mitigating our wrath.

Drat! I just gave away the last of my chilled strawberry chiffon tarts...

It's not that big a deal though. They were little more than a cup-sized graham cracker crust with strawberry-cream filling and sealed with a dollop of whipped, cream cheese frosting.....

I can't imagine anyone will miss them.