Interfaith marriages.

[Scott Lloyd]

Even people who marry within the faith will find they are in an interfaith marriage to some degree or another. Same faith marriages are not a guarantee of anything.

I think this is an astute observation.

In selecting a marriage partner, nominal membership in the same faith is not enough. Neither is appearing to go through the motions. The finer points have to be scrutinized, such as commitment to Sabbath observance, strictness in obeying the word of wisdom, standards of dress and modesty, the kind of entertainment one consumes, etc.

Even after all that, things can go wrong. But success is more certain if greater care is exerted in mate selection to begin with. And, as Brenda has alluded, membership in the same faith gives it a head start. It eliminates the possibility of heartache and frustration even though both partners are generally good people.

[Uncertain]

The failure rate of interfaith marriages is not all that surprising. In any marriage the more in common the better and religion for some is a defining part of their life and not having that in common with their spouse would understandably be difficult. Things start getting complicated if there aren't enough potential mates for every active church member.

http://religions.pewforum.org/portraits

According to the recent pew forum 44% of self identified Mormons are male and 55% are female. If we assume the percentage of active male and female members is similar (a not unreasonable assumption). This means ~21% of active female members in this life (in North America) for absolutely no fault of their own will not be able to marry an active male member of the church this is not a small fraction. Personally I think this is one of the best arguments for reinstating polygamy .

I really feel for the late 20?s and up single sisters in the LDS church. They are between the proverbial rock and a hard place. For many if they restrict themselves to only marrying active temple worthy LDS members. They have essentially doomed themselves to a life of spinsterhood. There is quite simply not enough active LDS males to go around. Frankly strictly following church council to marry only in the temple creates a class of LDS

[thesometimesaint]

There is ONLY ONE guarantee in this life. Some day every one of us will die. Successful marriage is hard work, we need to work at it every day, and become the type of person that our spouse wants to be with.

[blueadept]

There is ONLY ONE guarantee in this life. Some day every one of us will die. Successful marriage is hard work, we need to work at it every day, and become the type of person that our spouse wants to be with.

A principle I fully endorse.

The best advise I tried to live by was to consistently try to take care of her needs and if she did the same for me, then we would have a chance to make it work by not worrying the "I" stuff. (ex-"I want" or "I need")

I was watching Juno this weekend and the scene near the end of the movie seemed to ring true between Juno and her dad in regards to relationships. It talked about finding the right person who accepts you for you regardless of your quirkiness. For her BF, she was the mac and he was the cheese.

In my case, I had the clues my wife REALLY wanted me to convert even though she said that the decision was up to me and she would live with whatever I chose. She was under the fascade that truth would win.

Amazing what mentality people go into marriages with.......

[Scott Lloyd]

Myself I think the church should perhaps modify its advice on marrying nonmembers at least for the late 20?s and over crowd. Yes there are potential problems with marrying a nonmember that does not mean every marriage to someone not of your faith will end in failure many will succeed a good person is a good person in or out of the church. Contrast that with the near guarantee (the numbers just don't work out for active LDS females) of not finding someone to marry and spending your entire life alone.

This ignores the impact on innocent children who are thus denied the privilege of having a home with two active, dedicated, faith Latter-day Saint parents.

Many LDS women deprived of the opportunity to marry (or forced into widowhood early in life) have led rewarding and productive lives, secure in the knowledge that eternal marriage and its associated blessings will not be denied to any faithful individual.

[thesometimesaint]

blueadept:

I'm the only member in my parents family, and my parents were of differing religions. Both good people, and it was still very interesting growing up.

I firmly believe it is a mistake for one spouse to expect conversion after the marriage ceremony, or make it a conditional to marriage. Convert because you believe the religion before marriage.

[Uncertain]

This ignores the impact on innocent children who are thus denied the privilege of having a home with two active, dedicated, faith Latter-day Saint parents.

Well I happen to know many innocent children who do not have two active dedicated LDS parents and frankly the vast majority of them seem to get along just fine. It seems of far more importance is have loving dedicated parents who place their children first. Think of your nonmember friends are their innocent children suffering unduly because their parents don't happen to be LDS? And if this is your only concern how about LDS girls who can't have kids for one reason or another is it perfectly acceptable for them to find a quality non member spouse?

Many LDS women deprived of the opportunity to marry (or forced into widowhood early in life) have led rewarding and productive lives, secure in the knowledge that eternal marriage and its associated blessings will not be denied to any faithful individual.

Yep when they are dead they will finally get a husband and children. This of course ignores the fact in this life they will be condemned to live it as LDS nuns. It also ignores the fact there are certain family experiences only possible here on earth. Look if you claim a LDS girl is better off to live as a nun a life without family than to form a loving family with a quality nonmember (horrors!) we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

All the Best,

Uncertain

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Look if you claim a LDS girl is better off to live as a nun a life without family than to form a loving family with a quality nonmember (horrors!) we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

All the Best,

Uncertain

The reality is that it is not our choice but that of girl or boy with whom they choose to get married to. However when talking stats, it would seem, that it would be better if they chose to marry some one of the same faith. Hence the op.

[Uncertain]

The reality is that it is not our choice but that of girl or boy with whom they choose to get married to. However when talking stats, it would seem, that it would be better if they chose to marry some one of the same faith. Hence the op.

Hi Mola,

I am not disputing it is better to marry within your faith. I agree it is better if possible to marry within your faith. But what if it is not possible? As I pointed out there are far more active LDS females than males hence it is literally impossible for every active LDS female to marry an active LDS male at least not without polygamy. Given this the choice is not between marrying in the faith and marrying a nonmember the choice is between marrying a nonmember and not marrying at all. I personally think marrying a nonmember is a better choice than going through life as an LDS nun without a family. But I understand people need to make their own decisions when it comes to who they will marry.

[cinepro]

One of the criticism of the LDS Church is that we encourage marriage within the faith and upon temple marriages. This is considered by some to be close-minded, and exclusionary. We emphasize that shared religious commitment is an important part of marriage.

It seems to me that there is some sound practical, sociological, and theological reasons to support such counsel. The story points out the deep, almost instinctual pull religion has on people and that pull has profound effects on marriages.

Regards,

Six

I've heard criticism about the Temple marriage attendance policies and their effect on non-member family members, but I've never heard anyone complain about an LDS wanting to marry another LDS as a general principle.

[thesometimesaint]

Uncertain:

Aside from the fact that polygamy is not an issue with the LDS. I believe that can be shown that it is the active religious women that are the majority in any religion. Would not your argument for polygamy apply to them as well?

[cinepro]

Uncertain:

Aside from the fact that polygamy is not an issue with the LDS. I believe that can be shown that it is the active religious women that are the majority in any religion. Would not your argument for polygamy apply to them as well?

It's apparently a problem for mainstream christianity as well:

[Uncertain]

Uncertain:

Aside from the fact that polygamy is not an issue with the LDS. I believe that can be shown that it is the active religious women that are the majority in any religion. Would not your argument for polygamy apply to them as well?

Yep absolutely, the same problem occurs in Christianity as a whole at least in the U.S. Now I believe the gender ratio for LDS is higher than most other Christians sects but just about all of them show at least a slight gender skew. And I would argue the same thing if your choice is to live your life as a nun without family or marry a quality nonmember I would say you are most of the time better off marrying the nonmember whether you are Catholic, Baptist JW etc.

[Spurven Ten Sing]

Ha ha, LDS nuns....who are the LDS monks, then?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Hi Mola,

I am not disputing it is better to marry within your faith. I agree it is better if possible to marry within your faith. But what if it is not possible? As I pointed out there are far more active LDS females than males hence it is literally impossible for every active LDS female to marry an active LDS male at least not without polygamy. Given this the choice is not between marrying in the faith and marrying a nonmember the choice is between marrying a nonmember and not marrying at all. I personally think marrying a nonmember is a better choice than going through life as an LDS nun without a family. But I understand people need to make their own decisions when it comes to who they will marry.

Right, I think you missed what I was saying. It is not our choice to make. If she chooses to marry then more power to her. The only thing that can be said is anything on the statistics of interfaith marriages.

I think you have every right to make that choice if you had too. However there are girls that decide not to marry, or simply don't have a choice to marry some one that is LDS. I have a few friends that are in this boat currently.

Keep in mind that my argument is geared towards Scott as much as it is towards your argument.

I just picked yours because it was the last comment posted on the matter. Of course perhaps my post only points out the obvious that doesn't need to be said.

[handys003]

Just to clarify...I lived a 24-7 Catholic lifestyle and supported my wife's LDS faith. I believe she was tired of being married with that and wanted someone to go to the Temple with.

I didn't see any issues. IMO, I'm more of the zealot than her. Good values and principles for both sides, but.....

My wife's 1st husband wasn't too religious so she wanted someone who was and she found it. For some reason, she's still not content...

Sounds like a case of lack of understanding gratitude and blessings. My wife spent 16 years waiting for me to take her to temple. She married me for my goodness to be a better spouse. She also understood that there was a likelihood of me not sealing and taking her to the CK. However her attitude was such that when we die. If it was LDS Heaven then I would be educated enough, and I would be willing to move up to take her to the CK. If there was a different heaven or no heaven then it would not matter as far as LDS assertion.

[Scott Lloyd]

Well I happen to know many innocent children who do not have two active dedicated LDS parents and frankly the vast majority of them seem to get along just fine.

That may be the case, but a Latter-day Saint who understands and believes fully in his/her faith would want to provide the full blessings of marriage within the covenant to his/her offspring.

It seems of far more importance is have loving dedicated parents who place their children first.

Are you saying Mormons who insist on marriage within the covenant are not loving and dedicated and do not place their children first?

Think of your nonmember friends are their innocent children suffering unduly because their parents don't happen to be LDS?

Suffering unduly and missing out on opportunities that might be present with faithful LDS parents are two different things.

And if this is your only concern how about LDS girls who can't have kids for one reason or another is it perfectly acceptable for them to find a quality non member spouse?

Absolutely not. A faithful Mormon woman unable to bear children in morality could adopt, or, at the least, expect to have children in the hereafter. In either case she would want to have a faithful priesthood bearer as a partner.

Yep when they are dead they will finally get a husband and children. This of course ignores the fact in this life they will be condemned to live it as LDS nuns.

I can think of worse things, arguably including being trapped in a martial relationship with a man angry and embittered over his wife's desire to be a faithful and practicing member of the Church, and determined to keep her children from receiving or enjoying the blessings of the Church.

It also ignores the fact there are certain family experiences only possible here on earth.

Mormonism teaches that, in the eternal scheme, no good thing will be withheld from faithful and righteous individuals -- including experiences you say are only possible in mortality.

Look if you claim a LDS girl is better off to live as a nun a life without family than to form a loving family with a quality nonmember (horrors!) we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Finding a spiritually fulfilling life with a "quality non-member" is far from certain. On the other hand experiencing every good gift from God if one remains true, faithful and righteous is certain.

[Maidservant]

Frankly strictly following church council to marry only in the temple creates a class of LDS

[Mudcat]

My thoughts on the matter of interfaith marriages.

I think there was certainly sound advice in 2 Corinthians 6 about not yoking belief with unbelief. The statistics seem to support the legitimacy of such.

That being said, I am in an interfaith marriage of 12 years and couldn't be happier. My wife and I were in a relationship of mutual fidelity 3 years prior to marriage, as well.

I suppose our personal circumstances are a bit different than most. When we married my wife was an apatheistic LDS and I was an agnostic with a Baptist upbringing. It was only after a few years of marriage that we came to our own respective faiths.

We have both had to wrestle with a good many issues, but I think in many ways the adversity has strengthened our marriage. IMO, the way we have been able to make it work, is a fairly simple formula. We pray together and pray as a family. We both try to be the best Christian mate for our spouse as we can. By that I mean we show unconditional love towards one another. We don't put our desire for the other to believe exactly as we do, before the respect of the beliefs of our spouse that they deserve. Also, we try to leave those things that can cause friction in the hands of God, instead of our own.

edit add...

the point being, interfaith relationships can work and do work. It is like anything else, it takes work. I think the reason any relationship fails is because someone put their own needs above the needs of their mate. So if you are in one.. don't give up.

Regards,

Mudcat

[Uncertain]

Hi Scott,

Are you saying Mormons who insist on marriage within the covenant are not loving and dedicated and do not place their children first?

I am not going to dignify this with a response.

Absolutely not. A faithful Mormon woman unable to bear children in morality could adopt, or, at the least, expect to have children in the hereafter. In either case she would want to have a faithful priesthood bearer as a partner.

You and I both known there are circumstances in which children are not possible. For example financial circumstances may be such adopting a child is irresponsible. Or an older widow that can't properly take care of a child. In such cases where having children would be irresponsible and careless is it okay for them to marry a non member? Say a 80 year old widow can she marry a nonmember?

I can think of worse things, arguably including being trapped in a martial relationship with a man angry and embittered over his wife's desire to be a faithful and practicing member of the Church, and determined to keep her children from receiving or enjoying the blessings of the Church.

Yes it could be this would happen and it could be this would happen even if a person marries a fully active priesthood holder. All things in life come with risks including marriage just because the worst can happen does not mean we don't live life. If you choose wisely who you marry such risks can be greatly mitigated again a good person is a good person in and out of the church. In fact I dare say a angry apostate is far more likely to resent church activity than someone who was never a member and came into the marriage knowing and accepting how the children would be raised.

Mormonism teaches that, in the eternal scheme, no good thing will be withheld from faithful and righteous individuals -- including experiences you say are only possible in mortality.

Really? so a glorified resurrected and immortal being can just be the soccer mom down the street? Having and raising mortal children while she never gets any older and is immune to any physical harm? Driving her kids to school and doctors appointments? Picking up her glorified resurrected and immortal husband from his nine to five job selling insurance? What would her neighbors think? Reminds me of the movie the Incredibles .

Finding a spiritually fulfilling life with a "quality non-member" is far from certain. On the other hand experiencing every good gift from God if one remains true, faithful and righteous is certain.

Yes and being single your entire life being a LDS nun and forgoing the pleasures in mortality of a husband and children because of your church is not exactly a good way to encourage commitment to a religious cause. What do you suppose the activity rate is for singles over 30 in the LDS church? I reject your either/or dichotomy simply because a person happens to be married to a nonmember in no way means they cannot remain true and faithful. From a LDS perspective a person married to a nonmember who is true and faithful will receive every good gift from God correct? What about all those who convert to the faith but their spouse doesn't have they automatically lost good gifts from God because (horrors!) they happen to marry a nonmember in their heathen days? And if someone does get every good gift from God because they are true and faithful even if they are married to a nonmember well then they get to experience the joys of a husband and children in this life and all Gods gifts in the next.

You might argue marrying a nonmember may encourage you to lose commitment to the church hence it is better to remain single to not jeopardize your salvation. One this is really disrespectful to many women of the church are they really not strong enough in the gospel to marry a nonmember and still stay active? And two telling people they must remain nuns for the churches sake has its own cost in activity rates and it is not at all certain more people will be retained by telling them they must be nuns than would be lost because they marry a good kind person who just so happens to be a nonmember (horrors on top of horrors!).

Again if you think it is better to live life as a nun than marry a quality nonmember and experience the joys in mortality of family then we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I understand the religious thinking that

leads to such conclusions but thankfully I don't have to to accept it. I think every person can make up their own mind who they should marry and that simply because their church claims they should only marry members does not mean they should necessarily listen (depending of course on the circumstances).

[thesometimesaint]

Uncertain:

Having children in this life is not required in the Church, nor does God require it for exaltation. Those that did not through no fault of their own in this life will have that opportunity in the next.

Older widows/widowers can take care of young children. It is just harder to do, and usually requires the assistance of friends and family. Teens in particular like the advantages having a parent or close family relative that a few extra years of experience behind them provides.

You can marry anyone that will have you, whether you're 80 years old or not. However statistically speaking having a common religion greatly increases the likelihood of it being a successful one.

If we're just talking statistics those that marry within their own faith are much more likely to have a successful marriage than those that don't. It is like driving down the road a 90 miles per hour. Sure it is possible to do so and not have an accident. But I wouldn't recommend it as a something to do.

I wouldn't put it that way. How I would put it is. A glorified resurrected immortal being may well have been a soccer mom in this life, or a English teacher at a local JR. HS., or any number of earthly talents, traits, and abilities that they developed.

The incredible thing is that every one of us has the potential to be that glorified resurrected immortal being, and much much more. We have the potential to be like God.

I don't believe that for a minute.

No righteous desire of their hearts will be denied them, and long as they remain true and faithful to the covenants they have been given. No such promise is given to those(married or not) who do not.

It is not sin to marry outside of the Church(outside of allowing ourselves to being unequally yoked). But it does add further complications to marriage. Successful marriage is hard enough. Why add to the problems?

Again I'm not diminishing the faithful members of the Church in any way. But why add to the problems already present in any marriage? Our goal is the Celestial Kingdom. Our mate can help support us along that path. But if our mate can not join our hands across the alter of the Temple and be Sealed together forever, it makes it that much harder to get there.

No one is forcing you to accept it. But if your goal is to be one with your spouse not only in this life but the next then it deserves serious consideration.

[Uncertain]

Uncertain:

Having children in this life is not required in the Church, nor does God require it for exaltation. Those that did not through no fault of their own in this life will have that opportunity in the next.

Older widows/widowers can take care of young children. It is just harder to do, and usually requires the assistance of friends and family. Teens in particular like the advantages having a parent or close family relative that a few extra years of experience behind them provides.

You can marry anyone that will have you, whether you're 80 years old or not. However statistically speaking having a common religion greatly increases the likelihood of it being a successful one.

If we're just talking statistics those that marry within their own faith are much more likely to have a successful marriage than those that don't. It is like driving down the road a 90 miles per hour. Sure it is possible to do so and not have an accident. But I wouldn't recommend it as a something to do.

I wouldn't put it that way. How I would put it is. A glorified resurrected immortal being may well have been a soccer mom in this life, or a English teacher at a local JR. HS., or any number of earthly talents, traits, and abilities that they developed.

The incredible thing is that every one of us has the potential to be that glorified resurrected immortal being, and much much more. We have the potential to be like God.

I don't believe that for a minute.

No righteous desire of their hearts will be denied them, and long as they remain true and faithful to the covenants they have been given. No such promise is given to those(married or not) who do not.

It is not sin to marry outside of the Church(outside of allowing ourselves to being unequally yoked). But it does add further complications to marriage. Successful marriage is hard enough. Why add to the problems?

Again I'm not diminishing the faithful members of the Church in any way. But why add to the problems already present in any marriage? Our goal is the Celestial Kingdom. Our mate can help support us along that path. But if our mate can not join our hands across the alter of the Temple and be Sealed together forever, it makes it that much harder to get there.

No one is forcing you to accept it. But if your goal is to be one with your spouse not only in this life but the next then it deserves serious consideration.

I believe you misunderstand me. At no point am I arguing it is wrong or a bad idea to marry within your faith if at all possible. I am simple pointing out to do so for active LDS girls is quite literally impossible in some cases. There simply aren't enough LDS men for every LDS women to a large degree. I fully accept it is better by and large to marry within your faith I think it is a great idea. But for many the choice is not between marrying in your faith and marrying a nonmember the choice is between marrying a nonmember and not getting married at all at least in this life. My one and only argument is if your choice is between becoming an LDS nun and living a life without family or marrying a quality nonmember marrying a nonmember should be a option you should consider despite church advice to marry only within the covenant. Again I am not arguing that marrying within your faith is a bad idea. I am arguing sometimes marrying within your faith is not possible and in such cases marrying a nonmember is a viable option despite whatever advice to the contrary you may get from your religious organization.

[thesometimesaint]

I think you're centered too much on this life.

While important, in the LDS construct, this life is not everything. To LDS what we do with what we are given is infinitely more important than mere fact of being given it. The Parable of the Talents is instructive here. The servant who got 5 talents and increased those talents was rewarded just the same as the one getting 10 talents and increased those, upon the return of the master. However; the servant getting 1 talent who hid that talent and did nothing to increase that talent receive nothing upon the return of the master, and had that talent taken from him.

To those faithful sisters and brothers who through no fault of their own received the 5 talents(not being married in this life) instead of the 10(being married in this life) NOTHING will be denied them and they will rewarded in the eternities.

[GingerRed]

uhummhumm ( clears throat).... ** raising hand*** I am one of those older LDS women (52) who has never married or had children. Now the children part, I have hit menopause already so having kids of my own is out of the question...but...I'd still like to be married.

I have been a faithful LDS convert since I was 21. Sometimes I look back and think..had I never joined the church, I would have most likely gotten married and had kids by now. The reason I think that, is being LDS does limit the playing field. I have to find that faithful, decent Temple-going, RM, LDS man. If I hadn't had those restrictions in finding a mate, I honestly believe I would have married in my 20's like everyone else. Cause all I would have had to look for was a good kind, decent, man with morals and values same as mine. I'm sure that would not have taken the 31 years I've been still single to do that!

I also find LDS men way more picky than non-LDS men. LDS men are flippin' scared to death of that 'C' word! Whereas when I step out into the 'real' world...non-LDS men flirt with me without even thinking about it. No qualms, no thinking 'that-girl-is-smiling-at-me-she-must-want-to-marry-me- e-gads!!' It's funny and sad at the same time.

But because of my faith and desire to marry in the Temple, I do understand that means I got less than a 50-50 chance of finding someone of the LDS faith. So yes that would mean I must remain chaste and undesired til the next life. It can be a very lonely life, but at least I have a full life of friends ,family and career and the gospel.

Just for fun, I have been browsing non-LDS dating sites recently. Sure is different the responses I get, which are a lot more than on the LDS sites I was on. It's good for my ego if nothing else! LOL I'm getting noticed, wow!

But it IS more and more tempting to try dating non-LDS men, I gotta say that! Not something I ever wanted to do! But as time goes on, you want to love and be loved! I'm wondering now...should I give it a go? I don't know if I could handle a mixed faith relationship. I did try that once before many years ago with a co-worker I was crazy about....! BUT, when i got to thinking where this could possibly lead, this man could never take me to the Temple, I began to back off and let myself distance him. I know it confused him, cause I never explained why. When he began to date other gals and finally married, it did hurt... I SO wanted him!! But my head ruled my heart.

It's hard to know which way to go now.....should I or shouldn't I?

Red

[Uncertain]

I think you're centered too much on this life.

While important, in the LDS construct, this life is not everything. To LDS what we do with what we are given is infinitely more important than mere fact of being given it. The Parable of the Talents is instructive here. The servant who got 5 talents and increased those talents was rewarded just the same as the one getting 10 talents and increased those, upon the return of the master. However; the servant getting 1 talent who hid that talent and did nothing to increase that talent receive nothing upon the return of the master, and had that talent taken from him.

To those faithful sisters and brothers who through no fault of their own received the 5 talents(not being married in this life) instead of the 10(being married in this life) NOTHING will be denied them and they will rewarded in the eternities.

Well as explained to Scott I reject the idea this decision is an either/or one. Within the LDS paradigm a person can get married to a nonmember in this life and still have all Gods blessings in the next. So I may be focused to much on this life but why not have it both? A loving spouse in this life and all Gods blessings in the next. Yes I fully accept the concept that those who receive the 5 talents in this life can have all of Gods blessings in the next. This does not mean those 5 talent folks can't strive to get the 10 talents in this life. Look I understand arguing against church advice to marry only within the faith is not going to be a popular position on this board. And by and large I accept and believe there is solid logic behind the churches advice. But good advice is rarely a one size fits all proposition what may be good advice in some cases is bad advice in another. We also must use our heads and modify good advice to fit our own particular circumstances.