What Did Brigham Actually Believe?

[Droopy]

I was just this evening reading one of my favorite gospel tomes, the Discourses of Brigham Young, and at the end of chapter three, last paragraph, I came across this statement:

The greatest desire in the bosom of our Father Adam, or of his faithful children who are co-workers with God, our eternal Father in Heaven, is to save the inhabitants of the earth.

Now, if it is correct, as both our evangelical and secularist critics claim, that Brigham believed that Adam and the Father were the same person, and that therefore Adam was the Father of our spirits in the preexistence as well as the father of Jesus Christ, how is it then that we have here a statement that conceptually and contextually differentiates Adam from the Father, naming Adam and his children as "co-workers with" God the Father within the context of the plan of salvation?

Did Young knowingly teach a doctrine that he knew very well was logically contradictory to the orthodox teachings of the Church here, or are we missing critical knowledge and concepts that would tie what Young was trying to say in with the settled doctrines of the gospel relative to the identity of the personages in question?

As the terms "Adam", "God" and "Father" have varying and overlapping meanings in the gospel, and can be name titles as well as personal pronouns, how strong, really, are the critic's position here?

[David T]

It's not just critics. It's very well documented that members of the Quorum of the Twelve at the time were quite divided over what to think and accept concerning Brigham's explicit teachings concerning the identity of Adam as the Father of Spirits who laid down his Celestial Body to condescend to mortality to beget the physical tabernacles of man as well. Brigham wasn't always consistent, but he became more so on in his life. He was an inspired leader of the Saints, but he made some highly faulty conclusions.

There was a talk given on this at the FAIR conference, I believe by Matthew Brown, but a transcript hasn't been posted yet. Anyone know if/when that will happen?

EDIT: Here's some notes from the talk posted on the Life On Gold Plates blog.

[the narrator]

David John Buerger's essay on the Adam-God doctrine is perhaps the best treatment of Brigham Young's teaching.

You can read it here: http://content.lib.u...TR=20104&REC=15

I believe Gary James Bergera's Conflict in the Quorum spends a little time on it as well.

I don't think we need to conclude that Young was faulty, but that he was merely doing what Abraham, Moses, and Joseph Smith (at least 3 times--Moses, Abraham, & Temple) were doing--reinterpreting, re-visioning, and retelling the Creation/Eden myth (narrative) to teach different principles/truths.

[USU78]

The greatest desire in the bosom of our Father Adam, or of his faithful children who are co-workers with God, our eternal Father in Heaven, is to save the inhabitants of the earth.

Here is the sentence stripped to its essence:

The greatest desire is to save the inhabitants of the earth.

Now let's look at the modifiers to the subject of this sentence:

(1) of our Father Adam

or

(2) his [Adam's] faithful children who are co-workers with G-d, our Eternal Father in Heaven

Sorry, I don't see this as a usable prooftext for Adam-G-d.

[the narrator]

Here is the sentence stripped to its essence:

The greatest desire is to save the inhabitants of the earth.

Now let's look at the modifiers to the subject of this sentence:

(1) of our Father Adam

or

(2) his [Adam's] faithful children who are co-workers with G-d, our Eternal Father in Heaven

Sorry, I don't see this as a usable prooftext for Adam-G-d.

I think Droopy was trying to use it as a proof-text that BY never taught Adam-God. While (assuming this is a correct transcription of Young's words) I think that this is proof that Young was perhaps not teaching A-G at this time, it fails to recognize the simple fact that BY taught A-G for a time.

It's pretty simple. At time X, BY did not teach A-G. At time X+1, BY taught A-G. At time X+2, BY stopped teaching A-G. Thus some teachings from BY (from X and X+2) will not contain A-G; while other teachings from BY (from X+1) will.

[USU78]

I think Droopy was trying to use it as a proof-text that BY never taught Adam-God. While (assuming this is a correct transcription of Young's words) I think that this is proof that Young was perhaps not teaching A-G at this time, it fails to recognize the simple fact that BY taught A-G for a time.

It's pretty simple. At time X, BY did not teach A-G. At time X+1, BY taught A-G. At time X+2, BY stopped teaching A-G. Thus some teachings from BY (from X and X+2) will not contain A-G; while other teachings from BY (from X+1) will.

Or perhaps it's not "simple" in the way narrator desires.

Adam-G-d is only a problem for those who believe BY's views on Adam/G-d fall into a certain trough.

If, however, we see BY's Adam/G-d views as meaning that we are part of the genus Deus, and that one of G-d the Father's kennings is Adam, then we're on to something here.

But all of that has nothing to do with the OP except, perhaps as you've stated, to show that BY's teachings don't all fall into that there certain trough.

[the narrator]

Or perhaps it's not "simple" in the way narrator desires.

Adam-G-d is only a problem for those who believe BY's views on Adam/G-d fall into a certain trough.

If, however, we see BY's Adam/G-d views as meaning that we are part of the genus Deus, and that one of G-d the Father's kennings is Adam, then we're on to something here.

But all of that has nothing to do with the OP except, perhaps as you've stated, to show that BY's teachings don't all fall into that there certain trough.

I believe that is what I said when i said:

"I don't think we need to conclude that Young was faulty, but that he was merely doing what Abraham, Moses, and Joseph Smith (at least 3 times--Moses, Abraham, & Temple) were doing--reinterpreting, re-visioning, and retelling the Creation/Eden myth (narrative) to teach different principles/truths."

[Droopy]

Here is the sentence stripped to its essence:

The greatest desire is to save the inhabitants of the earth.

Now let's look at the modifiers to the subject of this sentence:

(1) of our Father Adam

or

(2) his [Adam's] faithful children who are co-workers with G-d, our Eternal Father in Heaven

Sorry, I don't see this as a usable prooftext for Adam-G-d.

If I wasn't clear, my point was to point out that Young's statements here are completely consistent with everything Joseph taught regarding the identity of the various personages in question, and with what has been taught since that time.

Young's apparently incongruous teachings then must have some origin other than in what is obviously his own clear conceptualization of the matter. I think bc is on to something by looking at semantic problems re present attempts to get at Young's thought processes and intent in making the statements he did. Other than that, I'm as much in the dark as anybody.

[the narrator]

If I wasn't clear, my point was to point out that Young's statements here are completely consistent with everything Joseph taught regarding the identity of the various personages in question, and with what has been taught since that time.

Young's apparently incongruous teachings then must have some origin other than in what is obviously his own clear conceptualization of the matter. I think bc is on to something by looking at semantic problems re present attempts to get at Young's thought processes and intent in making the statements he did. Other than that, I'm as much in the dark as anybody.

Droopy, I provided a link to Buerger's article on A-G above. You should read it.

[BCSpace]

The greatest desire in the bosom of our Father Adam, or of his faithful children who are co-workers with God, our eternal Father in Heaven, is to save the inhabitants of the earth.

Now, if it is correct, as both our evangelical and secularist critics claim, that Brigham believed that Adam and the Father were the same person, and that therefore Adam was the Father of our spirits in the preexistence as well as the father of Jesus Christ, how is it then that we have here a statement that conceptually and contextually differentiates Adam from the Father, naming Adam and his children as "co-workers with" God the Father within the context of the plan of salvation?

There are several areas in the JoD in which BY clearly distinguishes Adam from God the Father. Combined with the fact that Adam/God comes into direct conflict with several other key doctrines that BY surely would have been aware of, this shows that BY never taught anything like Adam/God at all. It's far more productive therefore to look to much more robust theories like Adam Sr. Adam Jr.

[the narrator]

There are several areas in the JoD in which BY clearly distinguishes Adam from God the Father. Combined with the fact that Adam/God comes into direct conflict with several other key doctrines that BY surely would have been aware of, this shows that BY never taught anything like Adam/God at all. It's far more productive therefore to look to much more robust theories like Adam Sr. Adam Jr.

Here it is all again:

It's pretty simple. At time X, BY did not teach A-G. At time X+1, BY taught A-G. At time X+2, BY stopped teaching A-G. Thus some teachings from BY (from X and X+2) will not contain A-G; while other teachings from BY (from X+1) will. To say that he never taught it because some of his teachings did not contain it (and at times contradicted it) is just poor logic.

To deny that BY taught A-G is to live in a safety bubble and ignore all of the evidence. He taught it on several occasions, including incorporating it into the St George Temple endowment. His counselors, George Q. Cannon and Wilford Woodruff taught it as well. In fact, a Church court in (St George?) was made to discipline someone who publicly disagreed with it. B Young and Orson Pratt fought over it.

David John Buerger's essay on the Adam-God doctrine is perhaps the best treatment of Brigham Young's teaching.

You can read it here: http://content.lib.u...TR=20104&REC=15

I believe Gary James Bergera's Conflict in the Quorum spends a little time on it as well.

I don't think we need to conclude that Young was faulty, but that he was merely doing what Abraham, Moses, and Joseph Smith (at least 3 times--Moses, Abraham, & Temple) were doing--reinterpreting, re-visioning, and retelling the Creation/Eden myth (narrative) to teach different principles/truths.

[Obiwan]

Brigham Young is well documented many times more teaching the standard LDS understanding of Adam and God the Father, compared to the couple of times he said "something" about Adam/God/Father. Therefore, the only conclusion is that Brigham was teaching something different. And that different thing as far as I can tell is exactly what is STILL taught in the Temple today about Adam/God/Father etc. and is also in the Bible.

Anti-mormons ignoring these other facts so as to bear false witness of Brigham Young and Church Doctrine is just another of 100's of examples of whom they serve. Because anyone that actually "reads" direct from the sources discovers that anti-mormon drive by quote mining isn't the actual truth of the issue, even more often than not even in the surrounding context, not simply by discovering such through reading other materials which gives a more complete picture of what Brigham or others taught or what IS Church Doctrine itself.

[David T]

To deny that BY taught A-G is to live in a safety bubble and ignore all of the evidence.

I agree. I think it's far more harmful when members deny something difficult that is a clear and plain part of the record. Not just from records of sermons left behind, but of the many reactions to it was have on record from those contemporaneous with BY, who worked with him, and were highly conflicted on the matter!

Adam Sr/Adam Jr relies on cherry picking to prove its hypothesis just as much as any anti-book generally does on any given topic - just on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Brigham Young has said on occasion he disagrees with certain 'standard' and 'traditional' interpretations of scriptures, so to say he couldn't have taught something based on it disagreeing with a standard or traditional doctrine simply misunderstands Brigham Young.

[the narrator]

Brigham Young is well documented many times more teaching the standard LDS understanding of Adam and God the Father, compared to the couple of times he said "something" about Adam/God/Father. Therefore, the only conclusion is that Brigham was teaching something different. And that different thing as far as I can tell is exactly what is STILL taught in the Temple today about Adam/God/Father etc. and is also in the Bible.

Anti-mormons ignoring these other facts so as to bear false witness of Brigham Young and Church Doctrine is just another of 100's of examples of whom they serve. Because anyone that actually "reads" direct from the sources discovers that anti-mormon drive by quote mining isn't the actual truth of the issue, even more often than not even in the surrounding context, not simply by discovering such through reading other materials which gives a more complete picture of what Brigham or others taught or what IS Church Doctrine itself.

Obiwan, BY could have taught a standard teaching of Adam a million billion zillion gazillion times, but it doesn't change the documented fact that for a while he also taught A-G. It's not that difficult to figure out. People can change their beliefs at times. It happens all of the time. I'm pretty sure that your beliefs have not always been the way they are right now.

Instead of hiding in ignorance, read the article I posted.

Sheesh, even FAIR acknowledges that BY taught A-G.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Adam-God

http://en.fairmormon.org/Adam-God_and_the_"Lecture_at_the_Veil"

[consiglieri]

It's pretty simple. At time X, BY did not teach A-G. At time X+1, BY taught A-G. At time X+2, BY stopped teaching A-G. Thus some teachings from BY (from X and X+2) will not contain A-G; while other teachings from BY (from X+1) will. To say that he never taught it because some of his teachings did not contain it (and at times contradicted it) is just poor logic.

My conclusions from reviewing Brigham Young's sermons is somewhat different, in that he continuously and consistently taught that Adam is the father of our spirits as well as our bodies, having received his exaltation on a prior world and having been brought here to this earth with one of his exalted wives from that world, and placed in the garden in order to fall from immortality and commence the propagation of physical bodies for his children born to Adam and his wives in the premortal existence.

This was all done under the supervision of Elohim and Jehovah.

Brigham Young consistently taught that Adam is our Father and our God.

Brigham Young never taught that Adam is Elohim.

On this point there has been much confusion amongst those trying to understand his teachings, I think.

And, by the way, Brigham Young never taught a two-Adam theory, regardless of the wishful thinking of Elden Watson and his disciples.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[David T]

Brigham Young consistently taught that Adam is our Father and our God.

Brigham Young never taught that Adam is Elohim.

This is important in interpreting BY, and how it appears he understood the Endowment. To his understanding, there were three Generations of Gods presenting the Patriarchal Order:

Elohim (Great Grandpa)

Jehovah (Grandpa)

Michael (Father).

Jehovah and Michael were specifically personally involved in the affairs of earth, wheras Elohim was not.

He also did not appear to equate Jesus with Jehovah in the Endowment.

Jehovah, however, was still present throughout the Old Testament as the God of Adam

It was a complex theology that was well on its way to being developed, but dealt with too many unresolved and important contradictions, and essentially died with Brigham Young (although it would take the 1916 The Father and the Son exposition to officially and finally set the record straight)

It reminds me of the time when an elegant talk was presented before Joseph Smith. Afterwards, he praised its presentation and expounding of ideas. There was only one thing wrong with it, he said. It wasn't true.

[cdowis]

that he continuously and consistently taught that Adam is the father of our spirits as well as our bodies

This is a formal request for citations. You clearly imply that there are multiple citations, so let's see them.

[consiglieri]

This is a formal request for citations. You clearly imply that there are multiple citations, so let's see them.

See the Journal of Discourses.

You may begin with volume 1, pages 50 and 51. (Gee, that one's so famous I know it off the top of my head!)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Okay, here are a few more . . .

Starting with JD 1:50-51.

(NOTE--The footnotes for the first several quotes are in the footnotes of my personal document from which I copied and pasted, with some amendations for purposes of this post. If you are particularly interested in any of the quotes without reference, I am happy to provide them when time allows.)

1. How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me--namely that Adam is our father and God.

2. Brigham Young taught that Adam and Eve were exalted beings (i.e., gods) when they came to earth:

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him.

3. He (Adam) is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do.

4. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve.

5. You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe, though it is supposed that it is so written in the Bible: but it is not, to my understanding. . . . What is the reason I do not (believe Adam was created of the dust of the earth)? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child.

And again,

Though we have it in history that our Father Adam was made of the dust of this earth, and that he knew nothing about his God previous to being made here, yet it is not so; . . . Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was made upon any other principle.

Comment: Brigham Young emphasized that Adam was not created literally from the dust of this earth, but that he was created the same way as anyone else. In the second of the two quotes above, he informs us that Adam was created not on this earth but on some other world. It is reasonable to suppose Brigham Young meant that Adam was born in mortality upon a previous earth, even as we were "made" upon this earth.

Further, a question is raised as to what is meant by the phrase, "created from the dust of the earth." It is apparent that Brigham young used this expression in the same manner as the scriptures--as a euphemism for being born naturally into mortality. That being "created from the dust of the earth" is a symbolic expression meaning mortal birth is indicated in the Book of Moses:

And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying . . . Therefore I give unto you a commandment, to teach these things freely unto your children, saying: That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven. (Moses 6:59).

In this passage, the mortal birth ("by water, and blood, and the spirit") is equated with being created from "the dust of the earth."

Therefore, when the scriptures or Brigham Young say that Adam was created "of the dust of the earth" or "of the dust of an earth," we should not envision the sculpting of a life-size man-shaped clay figure. Both the scriptures and Brigham Young are instead apparently referring in symbolic language to the mortal birth we all undergo. And do, when Brigham Young says that "Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth," he may in effect be saying that Adam was not born into mortality on this earth, but that he was born into mortality on another world prior to this one.

6. Some have grumbled because I believe our God so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know this doctrine to be true.

7. Father Adam came here, and then they brought his wife. "Well," says one, "Why was Adam called Adam?" He was the first man on the earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren, brought it into existence. Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come here and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place, as mine has and where is the mystery?

8. Sunday, March 25, 1855, P.M. President Brigham Young spoke in a very interesting manner. . . . Adam and Eve were made of the dust of the earth from which they came--they brought their bodies with them. They had lived and died and been resurrected before they came here and they came with immortal bodies, and had to partake of the fruit of this earth in order to bring forth mortal bodies, or natural bodies, that their seed might be of the dust of this earth as they were from the dust of the earth from which they came.

9. Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh, and I would not say that they are not also the parents of our spirits.

10. Many of the sisters grieve because they are not blessed with offspring. You will see the time when you will have millions of children around you. If you are faithful to your covenants, you will become mothers of nations. You will become Eves to earths like this; and when you have assisted in peopling one earth, there are millions of earths still in the course of creation. And when they have endured a thousand million times longer than this earth, it is only as it were the beginning of your creation. Be faithful, and if you are not blessed with children in this time, you will be hereafter. But I would not dare tell you all I know about these matters.

11. I ask this question of you, Mother Eves, every one of you. If you are not sanctified and prepared, you ought to be sanctifying and preparing yourselves for the blessings in store for you when it will be said of you, this is Mother Eve. Why? Because you are the mothers of all living. You might as well prepare first as last. If you wish to be Eves and mothers of human families you ought to bear the burden.

12. This (earth) is our home, built expressly for us by the Father of our spirits, who is the Father, maker, framer and producer of these mortal bodies that we now inherit, and which will go back to mother earth.

13. Brigham Young Sermon, April 9, 1852--An extract from the most widely known statement of Brigham Young on the so-called Adam-God Theory (previously quoted in part):

Our Father in Heaven begat all the spirits that ever were, or ever will be, upon this earth; and they were born spirits in the eternal world. Then the Lord by His power and wisdom organized the mortal tabernacle of man. We were made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal.

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. he is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken--HE is our FATHER and our GOD and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material . . . When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal. When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so on in succession. I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone .... Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.

I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told.

14. Wilford Woodruff heard the same sermon delivered by

Brigham Young on April 9, 1852, and recorded it as follows:

. . . our Father in Heaven is a Tabernacle. He created us in the likeness of his own image. The Son has also a Tabernacle like the Father & the Holy Ghost is a minister to the people but not a tabernacle. Who begat the Son of God? Infidels say that Jesus was a *******, but let me tell you the truth concerning the matter. Our Father begat all the spirits that were before my tabernacle was made. When Our Father came into the Garden He came with his celestial body & brought one of his wifes with him & eat of the fruit of the garden untill He could begat a tabernacle and Adam is Michael or God and all the God that we have any thing to do with. They eat of this fruit & formed the first Tabernacle that was formed and when the VIRGIN MARY was begotten with child it was by the Father and in no other way. In no other way ownly as we were begotten. I will tell you the Truth as it is in God. The world don't know that Jesus Christ our Elder Brother was begotten by our Father in Heaven. Handle it as you please. It will either seal the damnation or salvation of man. He was begotten by the Father & not by the Holy Ghost. When you go to Preach & believe this Jesus Christ was begotten by the holy Ghost don't lay Hands upon the Heads of Females for the reception of the Holy Ghost lest it Beget her with Child and you be accused. I have told you nothing in this thing but what you have red in the Bible I do not frame it.

15. Brigham Young Sermon, February 19, 1854:

Who did beget him [the Son of God]? His Father, and his father is our God, and the Father of our spirits, and he is the framer of the body, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who is he? He is Father Adam; Michel; the Antient of days. Has he a Father? He has. Has he a mother? He has. Now to say that the son of God was begotten by the Holy Ghost, is to say the Holy Ghost is God the Father, which is inconsistant, and conterary to all the revelations of God both Moderen, and antient.

16. Oct. 8, 1854 sermon--(The following is the Pulsipher report of the sermon given at general conference by Brigham Young on the above date. It is the first report of several reports made by different people of the same address. Note that all the persons who reported this sermon below understood Brigham Young to the effect that he taught the Adam-God Theory. Had Brigham Young simply been misunderstood as to his teachings, or misquoted, such a circumstance is unlikely.)

Sunday the 8th Oct.

Meeting out doors--Prest. young said: We believe in God the Eternal Father, Jesus Christ his Son & the Holy Ghost Gods minister. The gods are Eternal, there never was a begining. They always Existed. Philosophers have tried to study out how the first gods came I want to ask them a Question: Which was first a squash or apple that produced the Seed or was it the seed that produced the Squash or apple? Which was first. They can't tell. So they need not rack their Brain with it--There never was a time but what No man from the days of Adam to the End of the world will ever be saved unless they go thro the same ordin that we do--There never was any other way to Salvation. Text was: to know the only true & wise God is Eternal life-- To know this a person must have Eternal life--God is the father of spirits of all the people of this world--he is the father of the bodies also of the first inhabitants of the Earth also the father of the body of Jesus Christ-- The first people of the Earth was no more made of the dust than you are--I would not make out that Moses lied, by no means. But we are made of dust as much as Adam was. So are our cattle. They are formed or created from the Elements all of which are necessary to produce animal or vegetable life--as the dust of the earth will produce grass & cattle will eat grass & increase Evry person must have a father & mother or they could not be. So we had a grandfather or we would have had no father & our grandfather has a father & grandfather & great-great-great-great-great grandfather So far back there is no beginning-0- They always Existed on some world--& when this work was made - our God who is Adam came & commenced the peopling of it -- Tho he is God & had lived & died & been reserected on some other plannet- & obtained his exaltation & began the Spirits of children enough people this world he came down & brot some of the animal & vegetable productions of some other world so that they might grow & increase here - He by eating the mortal fruits of the Earth, produced mortal children or commenced the increase of men on the Earth which is the bodies for the Spirits to live in

There never was a time when Worlds were not created- The work of creation was always in Progress-

An Adam & Eve is necesary for every world The oldest Son, if faithful, is the Saviour of the family--There are Lords many & Gods many But the God that we have to account to, is the father of our Spirits-Adam. All the inhabitance of the Earth are made of one flesh- Whither they are black-white-blue or streaked.

17. Oct. 8, 1854 sermon (Robinson report)

Attended conference. A very interesting conference; for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus: That Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized. And that Adam and Eve were the natural Father and Mother of every spirit that comes to this planet or that receives tabernacles on this planet. Consequently we are brothers and sisters. And that Adam was God our Eternal Father.

This as Brother Heber remarked was letting the cat out of the bag. But behold ye, there were some that did not believe the sayings of the Prophet Brigham. Even our beloved Brother Orson Pratt told me that he did not believe it. He said he could prove by the scriptures it was not correct I felt sorry to hear Professor Orson Pratt say that. I fear lest he should apostatize.

18. Oct. 8, 1854 sermon (Brown Report)

...Text "This is eternal life to know the only wise and true God & his Son Jesus Christ whom he has sent" - "There are Lords many and there are Gods many, & the Father of our Spirits is the Father of Jesus Christ: He is the Father of Jesus Christ, Spirit & Body and he is the beginner of the bodies of all men: Neither can you have a Father, without having a Grandfather: God hath made of one flesh, all the dwellers, or inhabitants on the whole earth, we are all formed of the same materials, from the mother Earth; those who keep their second estate will be celestialized & brought back to dwell with the Father. Can any individual officiate in any ordinances of any nature, before obeying the same and honoring them? Can any man officiate in this kingdom without first becoming a subject in the same? We'll let the numerous Gods alone, and take the one we have to do with. There is no time when worlds have not been created and exalted; there have always been an Adam and an Eve-the first man and woman, and their oldest son is heir, and should be our Savior. We have one Father and we all are brethren.

Elloheim spoke, "Yehovah, Michael-see matter all around, go and organize a world," Yehovah Michael went and carried material: Then Michael came down with his wife & began to people it. Michael had his body from the dust of the planet he was begotten on, he obeyed his Lord, was faithful and obedience, died and was resurrected, he did not resurrect himself.. An Angel resurrected Jesus-what Angel? I know not. When Jesus has completed his work, Adam shall have a fulness: Adam's descent was to organize people & redeem a world, by his wife he peopled it by his first born he redeems. Our Spirits were happy before they had a body....Father Adam knew all about oxen and cattle. Adam died and was buried, where he was interred is not said. Physicians will tell you, men's efforts to beget will be abortive, without the spirit put in by the Father.

Adam & Eve had children in the spirit-and their children married-brother & sister-then the bodies followed.

Joseph Smith will be the first resurrected being in this dispensation & he will hold the keys of the Resurrection & no man can be raised without his permission, he will delegate this power. He then spoke of the final baptism of the earth by fire-The earth to be as a Sea of Glass. He next said something of exchange of women & children. All are the children of Father Adam. When Jesus has done his work he will take this planet back to his Father.

19. Oct. 8, 1854 sermon (Watt report-excerpts from 36 pages):

[p. 12]...let us turn our attention to the God with which we have to do. I tell you simply, he is our father; the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the father of our spirits. Can that be possible? Yes, it is possable, he is the father of all the spirits of the human family.

All things are first made spiritual, and brought forth into his kingdom. The spirits of all the human family were begotten by one father....[p. 13] The God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ is the father of our spirits.

...[p. 16] I tell you more, Adam is the father of our spirits....

...[p. 18] Our spirits and the spirits of all the human family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve.

...[p. 20] Adam planted the Garden of Eden, and he with his wife Eve partook of the fruit of this earth, until their systems were charged with the nature of earth, and then they could begget bodies, for their spiritual childeren....

...[p. 21] I tell you, when you see your father in the heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bear your spirit, you will see mother Eve.

20. Oct. 8, 1854 sermon (Wilford Woodruff note)

October 6th-8th 1854

. . . Oct. 8th President Young preached to a congregation of several thousand, out doors and I believe that he preached the greatest sermon that ever was delivered to the Latter day Saints since they have been a people. Elder Watt reported. I also took minutes.

21. The following is purported to be an excerpt from the sermon at the veil as composed by Brigham Young and as used in the temple endowment during his administration.

When we got our washings and anointings under the hands of the Prophet Joseph at Nauvoo we had only one room to work in, with the exception of a little side room or office w[h]ere we were washed and anointed, had our garments placed upon us and received our new name. And after he had performed these ceremonies, he gave the key words, signs, tokens and penalties.

Then after we went into the large room over the store in Nauvoo, Joseph divided up the room the best that he could, hung up the veil, marked it, gave us our instructions as we passed along from one department to another, giving us signs, tokens, penalties, with the key words pertaining to those signs.

And after we had got through, Bro. Joseph turned to me (Prest. B. Young) and said, "Bro. Brigham this is not arranged right but we have done the best we could under the circumstances in which we are placed, and I wish you to take this matter in hand and organize and systematize all these ceremonies, with the signs, tokens, penalties and key words"--

I did so and each time I got something more, so that when we went through the Temple at Nauvoo I understood and knew how to place them there. We had our ceremonies pretty correct--

In the creation the Gods entered into an agreement about forming this earth, and putting Michael or Adam upon it.

These things of which I have been speaking are what are termed the mysteries of godliness but they will enable you to understand the expression of Jesus, made while in Jerusalem, "This is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent."

We were once acquainted with the Gods and lived with them, but we had the privilege of taking upon us flesh that the spirit might have a house to dwell in. We did so and forgot all, and came into the world not recollecting anything of which we had previously learned.

We have heard a great deal about Adam and Eve, how they were formed and etc. Some think he was made like an adobe and the Lord breathed into him the breath of life, for we read "from dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return." Well he was made of the dust of the earth but not of this earth. He was made just the same way you and I are made but on another earth.

Adam was an immortal being when he came on this earth; he had lived on an earth similar to ours; he had received the Priesthood and the keys thereof, and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation, and was crowned with glory, immortality and eternal lives, and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness, and had begotten all the spirits that was to come to this earth.

And Eve our common mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial world.

And when this earth was organized by Elohim, Jehovah and Michael, who is Adam our common father, Adam and Eve had the privilege to continue the work of progression, consequently came to this earth and commenced the great work of forming tabernacles for those spirits to dwell in, and when Adam and those that assisted him had completed this kingdom our earth he came to it, and slept and forgot all and became like an infant child.

It is said by Moses the historian that the Lord caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam and took from his side a rib and formed the woman that Adam called Eve--This should be interpreted that the Man Adam like all other men had the seed within him to propagate his species, but not the Woman; she conceives the seed but she does not produce it; consequently she was taken from the side or bowels of her father. This explains the mystery of Moses' dark sayings in regard to Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve when they were placed on this earth were immortal beings with flesh, bones and sinews. But upon partaking of the fruits of the earth while in the garden and cultivating the ground their bodies became changed from immortal to mortal beings with the blood coursing through their veins as the action of life--

Adam was not under transgression until after he partook of the forbidden fruit; this was necessary that they might be together, that man might be. The woman was found in transgression not the man--

Now in the law of Sacrifice we have the promise of a Savior and Man had the privilege and showed forth his obedience by offering of the first fruits of the earth and the firstlings of the flocks; this as a showing that Jesus would come and shed his blood. (Five blank lines in the manuscript.)

Father Adam's oldest son (Jesus the Saviour) who is the heir of the family, is father Adam's first begotten in the spirit world, who according to the flesh is the only begotten as it is written. (In his divinity he having gone back into the spirit world, and came in the spirit to Mary and she conceived), for when Adam and Eve got through with their work in this earth, they did not lay their bodies down in the dust, but returned to the spirit world from whence they came.

CONCLUSION

Above are quoted numerous statements either made in Brigham Young's own words or written down in journals by faithful Latter-day Saints in an effort to preserve Brigham Young's own words. All the above statements are consistent with each other to the effect that:

a. Adam and Eve were born naturally into mortality in a previous world, lived righteously, and gained exaltation and godhood;

b. Adam and Eve begot all the spirits that pertain to this earth; and

c. Adam came to the Garden of Eden with Eve in order to fall and thereby initiate the process by which Adam's spirit children could gain physical bodies and progress.

________________

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[the narrator]

This is a formal request for citations. You clearly imply that there are multiple citations, so let's see them.

I've already posted a source twice. Why don't you take some time to read it.

[consiglieri]

I've already posted a source twice. Why don't you take some time to read it.

It may take a little more time to read mine.

But that's what happens when a Church president says the same thing continuously and consistently over a 30-year tenure as prophet, seer and revelator.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[BCSpace]

It's pretty simple. At time X, BY did not teach A-G. At time X+1, BY taught A-G. At time X+2, BY stopped teaching A-G. Thus some teachings from BY (from X and X+2) will not contain A-G; while other teachings from BY (from X+1) will. To say that he never taught it because some of his teachings did not contain it (and at times contradicted it) is just poor logic.

This doesn't prove your case at all. What you've done is claimed that Adam/God that taught at x+1 when by the same logic it could easily (and far more likely) have been Adam Sr. Adam Jr.

[cdowis]

Stop wasting our time. Please give us the specific references that I requested.

[the narrator]

I am making a second formal request for CFR. This reference says nothing about Adam as the father of our spirits. I have read some of the references you gave, and they failed to comply with my request. Please do not waste our time again and give us those SPECIFIC REFERENCES.

To review: I am making a second request for references to Adam being the father of our spirits, as you claimed, and that he consistently made such a claim.

Thanks.

Did you read Bueger's Dialogue article, which I provided a link to twice already? Unless you are actually going to read the sources that are provided, your incessant whining for sources are going to sound rather inauthentic.

[cdowis]

Did you read Bueger's Dialogue article, which I provided a link to twice already? Unless you are actually going to read the sources that are provided, your incessant whining for sources are going to sound rather inauthentic.

Please give the specific statements that said Adam was the father of our spirits. Underline or put into bold the specific sentences which make that statement.

That is YOUR job, not mine.

[the narrator]

Please give the specific statements that said Adam was the father of our spirits. Underline or put into bold the specific sentences which make that statement.

That is YOUR job, not mine.

No. Actually it's not my job to cut and paste quotes with underlines and bold. I gave you a source. Now it is your job to use your literacy to read.